New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 05 2020 1:14pm

RicMcK wrote:
Feb 05 2020 1:02pm
KT-LCD3 upgrade?
I am confused on what I need to upgrade from a KT-LCD3 to 850C. First does anyone know the difference between P850C and the 850C? Can you "see the 850C in the sun? Next do I have to add the SW102 Bluetooth? I can't see my phone in the sun and I don't plan on using it with the bike.
P850C and 850C are probably the same.

Yes, 850C can be seen -- search on youtube reviews of the 850C display, it is very popular for Bafang motors, you will get feedback about your questions.

You need to choose between using 850C or SW102. 850C is the recommended one for the reasons explained on the wiki. Follow the wiki to install the firmware.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

skestans   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by skestans » Feb 05 2020 1:16pm

RicMcK wrote:
Feb 05 2020 1:02pm
KT-LCD3 upgrade?
I am confused on what I need to upgrade from a KT-LCD3 to 850C. First does anyone know the difference between P850C and the 850C? Can you "see the 850C in the sun? Next do I have to add the SW102 Bluetooth? I can't see my phone in the sun and I don't plan on using it with the bike.

Thanks
It looks like the p850c has a slightly different UI on the stock firmware and has two rings wrapping around the handlebar with two legs vs one for the 850c. I’m not sure it’s even the name because some seller call them all 850c. I have what looks like a p850c, it reads fine in the sun and works well with the OSFW.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 05 2020 1:17pm

Elinx wrote:
Feb 05 2020 5:28am
LJay wrote:
Feb 05 2020 3:49am
............
I´m using VLCD6 display and I want to keep it, because I don´t need any advanced features (just on/off and select power level) on this bike. ........
It is also possible to use OSF with the default TSDZ2 displays, like VLCD6 too. All important personal settings are setup before flashing and you can use the bike the same way as before, but with a remarkable improvement.
(Latest stable is v0.19C, latest release is v0.20b1A)

So you can try OSF first and keep it if you are satisfied or flash the default FW back again, or replace the display if you want the latest OSF releases.
Note that the firmware version of VLCD6 is outdated and has not the latest improvements so is not the best to compare.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Brlowe   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Brlowe » Feb 05 2020 2:07pm

Can you display temperature on the SW102 display with the OSF?

hetm4n   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hetm4n » Feb 05 2020 2:25pm

Brlowe wrote:
Feb 05 2020 2:07pm
Can you display temperature on the SW102 display with the OSF?
I join the question.

I uploaded OSF 0.6.5 to SW102 and tsdz2 0.54.0 today.
I noticed a strange behavior. When I start the engine while the program is loading, the lamp will flash and the engine will start for a moment.
The second problem is not remembering the settings after turning off SW102.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 05 2020 4:35pm

hetm4n wrote:
Feb 05 2020 2:25pm
Brlowe wrote:
Feb 05 2020 2:07pm
Can you display temperature on the SW102 display with the OSF?
I join the question.
Yes, use the same buttons as on 850C to select which variable to show on the numeric fields - see the wiki.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

BeTon75   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by BeTon75 » Feb 05 2020 4:44pm

Hi, I have some troubles with my TSDZ2 and wonder if anyone can shed some light on the possible causes.

- First, the speed sensor broke, so I disconnected it and the TSDZ2 worked again, without speed limit.... :shock:
- Then, after about a year of trouble free usage, the display XH18 stopped working, but the TSDZ2 still worked, max power only
- After a few months, the TSDZ2 stopped working all together. It doesn't seem like a mechanical issue

How do I go about with trouble shooting? I already partly disassembled the motor to get access to the electrical stuff. Couple of things I think I need tot test, but how?
- Torque sensor, no idea how to test
- Direct connection between motor and battery to test if it still runs. Which wires to connect?
- Could it be that there a short in the speed sensor connector which prevents the motor to activate??

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!

Elinx   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Feb 05 2020 5:50pm

casainho wrote:
Feb 05 2020 1:17pm
Elinx wrote:
Feb 05 2020 5:28am
.........
So you can try OSF first and keep it if you are satisfied or flash the default FW back again, or replace the display if you want the latest OSF releases.
Note that the firmware version of VLCD6 is outdated and has not the latest improvements so is not the best to compare.
To compare with .....? All releases have pro and minor points. It is the user who must weigh these points.
I am sure that the latest release v0.20b1A (based on the latest release for lcd3) made a lot of difference, compared to the default FW. If someone don't want to replace the original display, flashing v0.20b1A (or v0.19C) is the better solution for TSDZ2.
With 3 different OSF forks there is a choice for everyone.

Cristian   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Cristian » Feb 06 2020 3:17am

BeTon75 wrote:
Feb 05 2020 4:44pm
Hi, I have some troubles with my TSDZ2 and wonder if anyone can shed some light on the possible causes.

- First, the speed sensor broke, so I disconnected it and the TSDZ2 worked again, without speed limit.... :shock:
- Then, after about a year of trouble free usage, the display XH18 stopped working, but the TSDZ2 still worked, max power only
- After a few months, the TSDZ2 stopped working all together. It doesn't seem like a mechanical issue

How do I go about with trouble shooting? I already partly disassembled the motor to get access to the electrical stuff. Couple of things I think I need tot test, but how?
- Torque sensor, no idea how to test
- Direct connection between motor and battery to test if it still runs. Which wires to connect?
- Could it be that there a short in the speed sensor connector which prevents the motor to activate??

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!
Seems like the 3rd time the motor controller broke. That could be due to the max power (more likely related to the high current running) been ran all the time through it. The first thing i would do is order a new controller and then test.

LJay   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LJay » Feb 06 2020 4:01am

skestans wrote:
Feb 05 2020 4:56am
I don’t know what’s the threshold in the EU. In Switzerland, shipments worth less than 62CHF don’t incur taxes.
21% VAT is paid if the price is higher than 22 EUR and if it is higher than 150 EUR duty fees are paid also.
skestans wrote:
Feb 05 2020 4:56am
Em3ev has nice chargers, they send overseas, and they’ll put whatever value you want on the package. I got my 90/100% charger from them.
I looked at this web sites, but I wasn't able to find any charger as a separate item for sale (only as a bundle with motor and etc.)

skestans   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by skestans » Feb 06 2020 4:05am

LJay wrote:
Feb 06 2020 4:01am
skestans wrote:
Feb 05 2020 4:56am
I don’t know what’s the threshold in the EU. In Switzerland, shipments worth less than 62CHF don’t incur taxes.
21% VAT is paid if the price is higher than 22 EUR and if it is higher than 150 EUR duty fees are paid also.
skestans wrote:
Feb 05 2020 4:56am
Em3ev has nice chargers, they send overseas, and they’ll put whatever value you want on the package. I got my 90/100% charger from them.
I looked at this web sites, but I wasn't able to find any charger as a separate item for sale (only as a bundle with motor and etc.)
Yeah their website isn’t that great. Try emailing them, and say you want to buy a charger only. They’re very nice helpful and knowledgeable so it’s worth a shot.

If not, I might be selling one of mine brand new, unused 90/100% chargers (still in the box)

My 17Ah batteries last so long that I don’t need to charge them both at the same time.

LJay   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LJay » Feb 06 2020 4:15am

Elinx wrote:
Feb 05 2020 5:28am
It is also possible to use OSF with the default TSDZ2 displays, like VLCD6 too. All important personal settings are setup before flashing and you can use the bike the same way as before, but with a remarkable improvement.
(Latest stable is v0.19C, latest release is v0.20b1A)
I know about this option, but this project seems to get less development support than OSF and it´s little less organized also (I don´t want to offend anybody, it is just my impression). I would like to stick with original firmware for now, anyway.

BeTon75   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by BeTon75 » Feb 06 2020 4:34am

Cristian wrote:
Feb 06 2020 3:17am
BeTon75 wrote:
Feb 05 2020 4:44pm
Hi, I have some troubles with my TSDZ2 and wonder if anyone can shed some light on the possible causes.

- First, the speed sensor broke, so I disconnected it and the TSDZ2 worked again, without speed limit.... :shock:
- Then, after about a year of trouble free usage, the display XH18 stopped working, but the TSDZ2 still worked, max power only
- After a few months, the TSDZ2 stopped working all together. It doesn't seem like a mechanical issue

How do I go about with trouble shooting? I already partly disassembled the motor to get access to the electrical stuff. Couple of things I think I need tot test, but how?
- Torque sensor, no idea how to test
- Direct connection between motor and battery to test if it still runs. Which wires to connect?
- Could it be that there a short in the speed sensor connector which prevents the motor to activate??

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!
Seems like the 3rd time the motor controller broke. That could be due to the max power (more likely related to the high current running) been ran all the time through it. The first thing i would do is order a new controller and then test.
Thanks, will order one right away.

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Feb 06 2020 5:04am

matte2k wrote:
Feb 05 2020 11:26am
Today after 6500km my Tsdz2 broke.
A light bang and the left crank went totally loose.
Took the crank of, see attached image.
Is there any future for my tsd? Is it possible to restore? I have another tsd with broken sensor I can take parts from...

Until this one is healed, or burried, i have a tsdz2 with foot brake on a second bike. Can I use this on my number 1 bike with only hydralic brakes (Bullitt cargo), or what could happen?

15F57208-2294-4244-B08E-C5ED1C30DF54.jpeg
You can purchase the crank separately from the likes of PSW Power http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2016-7n-n002 but to be honest at 6.5K you may well be better to just front up for a new one, you've had good service and its time to be retired .

Elinx   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Feb 06 2020 6:54am

LJay wrote:
Feb 06 2020 4:15am
......
I know about this option, but this project seems to get less development support than OSF and it´s little less organized also (I don´t want to offend anybody, it is just my impression). I would like to stick with original firmware for now, anyway.
I can imagine what you mean. The main developers are Italian and don't work with Github. So you must be remain sharp to follow everything. So you are right it was less organized. It should now beiing a bit better, because stancecoke has given github support. The development is on par with KT lcd3 latest v.0.20, so that is not a problem.
The latest releases are 850C (and SW102) only.

michih.   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by michih. » Feb 06 2020 7:24am

matte2k wrote:
Feb 05 2020 11:26am
Today after 6500km my Tsdz2 broke.
A light bang and the left crank went totally loose.
Took the crank of, see attached image.
Is there any future for my tsd? Is it possible to restore? I have another tsd with broken sensor I can take parts from...

Until this one is healed, or burried, i have a tsdz2 with foot brake on a second bike. Can I use this on my number 1 bike with only hydralic brakes (Bullitt cargo), or what could happen?

15F57208-2294-4244-B08E-C5ED1C30DF54.jpeg
this is a very dangerous problem with this engine !!! beardydave wants to have reinforced products manufactured. you can find it on page 259 of this thread.

mfg michael

beardydave   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by beardydave » Feb 06 2020 8:21am

Hi

Yes, I'm getting samples of upgraded bottom bracket spindles made from EN24 thru hardened steel, if they perform I'll get a small batch done. Email me at dave@revolvemcr.com if you're interested.

Cheers

Dave

matte2k   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by matte2k » Feb 06 2020 9:00am

Perfect. Thanks. I will email. How do I replace it? Is it hard? Is there a guide?

skestans   100 W

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Location: Luxembourg

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by skestans » Feb 06 2020 10:54am

beardydave wrote:
Feb 06 2020 8:21am
Hi

Yes, I'm getting samples of upgraded bottom bracket spindles made from EN24 thru hardened steel, if they perform I'll get a small batch done. Email me at dave@revolvemcr.com if you're interested.

Cheers

Dave
Can you show on a picture which part you’re upgrading? I have difficulty visualizing it.

LJay   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LJay » Feb 06 2020 11:27am

skestans wrote:
Feb 06 2020 4:05am
If not, I might be selling one of mine brand new, unused 90/100% chargers (still in the box)
Thank you for your offer. I´m thinking about another possible solution and that is to buy non-adjustable 54,6V charger and lower its output voltage. I just have to find any proven and reliable charger on ebay (ideally in aluminium casing for simple disassembly) and modified it (if it would be possible). Is there any proven type of non-adjustable charger to buy?
Last edited by LJay on Feb 07 2020 1:59am, edited 3 times in total.

Brlowe   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Brlowe » Feb 06 2020 9:41pm

Installing a new kit, is there any reason to open the motor and grease or clean any thing before installing it or is it good to go as is?

LJay   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LJay » Feb 07 2020 2:30am

LJay wrote:
Feb 04 2020 6:15am
The issue is that the motor refuses to work with fully charged battery (54,2V), but when I discharge the battery down to 53,8V, it starts working fine then.
Are there any available informations about how often this issues occurs, prectagewise? I´m thinking about buying a new controller and swapping it for the old one, but it would be pointless in case the issue would be the same for a majority of available controllers on the market. In this case I will just buy/build adjustable charger and call it a day :)

windburner   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by windburner » Feb 07 2020 11:12am

LJay wrote:
Feb 07 2020 2:30am
Are there any available informations about how often this issues occurs, percentagewise? ...
Can't answer that question specifically, but, I know of two reported cases where someone with this 48V full charge voltage problem returned the unit for a replacement and the issue was resolved. I chose not to try the return route because the replacement is not shipped until the original is received, so weeks are involved! But this indicates that there is some chance that a controller replacement might resolve this for the factory firmware. Just thinking about it, I do not recall any 36V or 52V user complaints about this. Anyway, when I switched from the VLCD6 which does not report a voltage number to the SW102 with OSF which does, the voltage reported is 1.3 volts higher than a direct reading from the battery with a voltmeter, so, my guess is that the component on the controller board responsible for voltage measurement has a very loose quality check.
TerraTrike Rover Tandem - TSDZ2 48V 750W - 13AH Batteries - VLCD6-->SW102/v0.6.8 OSF-->VLCD6

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Feb 07 2020 11:30am

LJay wrote:
Feb 07 2020 2:30am
LJay wrote:
Feb 04 2020 6:15am
The issue is that the motor refuses to work with fully charged battery (54,2V), but when I discharge the battery down to 53,8V, it starts working fine then.
Are there any available informations about how often this issues occurs, prectagewise? I´m thinking about buying a new controller and swapping it for the old one, but it would be pointless in case the issue would be the same for a majority of available controllers on the market. In this case I will just buy/build adjustable charger and call it a day :)
Buy yourself an STLink and reprogram the voltage, its very easy and only costs a few Euros
Follow the link here
https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... romscratch

and the STprogrammer
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ST-Link-STLi ... SwMWpbw4eC

ri53hu   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ri53hu » Feb 07 2020 12:18pm

LJay.
Nebo here, the link explains everything. https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... rogramming :D

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