Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by tomjasz » May 05 2016 9:54pm

JayCee wrote: Don't believe you, unless you shimmed the bottom bracket on the drive side or had an older unit that was cast differently. The current drive unit does NOT fit onto a 68mm BB. When the motor plate is bolted to the motor, the space between the plate and the drive-side housing is 73mm. It CANNOT be installed without after-market shims.
I used two primary lock rings. So what's the beef? EVERY kit on EVERY build has some niggling detail. This anal retentive preoccupation with easily overcome details is contrary to kit building.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by ecilopaveht » May 06 2016 1:48am

Just installed on a Trek Marlin 6, no issues other than poor chain line.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by JayCee » May 06 2016 9:28am

Lurkin wrote:Tomjaz, would it be possible to enquire with Luna on this distinction? Is it actually possible to get a BBSHD for 68mm BB width from them? (yes, any answers will go updating the wiki)
The answer is no. The BBSHD requires aftermarket BB shims to be installed onto a 68mm BB, and there is no 68mm kit available, at least not in the US. The other option is to cut down the motor plate mounting area on the motor, but that seems sketchy to me. The required 5mm shim wants to be installed on the plate side, which creates rotational issues due to loss of the plate's biting teeth into the BB, which does have to be resolved - I like my drill n' pin idea for that issue - easy and reversible.

Niggling details IS an issue on a kit like this. We're not talking about figuring out how to run wires or where to put the battery - the drive unit simply doesn't fit. Marketing a kit as being suitable for something, then finding that it is geometrically uninstallable with the supplied materials is unacceptable. If the kit was supplied with the required shims, or came with an extra lock ring for use on a 68mm BB, then that would be fine. Either that or DON'T market it as suitable for a 68mm bracket without explaining what needs to be added.

That being said, once I received the motor and figured out what the problem was, Luna did allegedly send me out a shim kit, although I'm still waiting for it so my project has been on hold for a week so far. I don't have a good bike shop nearby to try and find esoteric hardware like many of you city-folk do.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by tomjasz » May 06 2016 10:50am

You DON'T NEED TO SHIM UNDER the fixing plate. There is NO issue except the one you are making up and it's unfounded, without merit, and that of an inexperienced builder with less sense, than cents, apparently. So you sit, with no riding, when what's really lacking is common sense. Thousands of us road our 01's and 02's with a single lockring. The fixing plate fits against the BB and the spacer on top of that. You COULD be riding instead of niggling about details you remain clueless about. You can lead lead a horse to water...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by Alan B » May 06 2016 1:55pm

Are you suggesting to install with the fixing plate tilted 5mm to reach the 68mm bottom bracket tube? Just trying to understand how this works.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by speedmd » May 06 2016 2:46pm

Are you suggesting to install with the fixing plate tilted 5mm to reach the 68mm bottom bracket tube? Just trying to understand how this works.
Just a little bending of the motor side tabs works!

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by Nelsjourney » May 06 2016 3:56pm

Just installed on a Cargo bike Kona Ute. Perfect. Especially with my Nuvinci N360. Straight line with chain.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by djeg72 » May 07 2016 9:07pm

Hi all,

i found THE ARTICLE that answered 99% of my questions. If i had found this article before, I would not have made the mistake of buying my Giant Anthem 2015 27.5.

https://www.empoweredcycles.com/blogs/n ... -standards

Step by step what to check before buying a bike for BBSXX.

Jerome

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by Alan B » May 08 2016 5:17pm

Good find. Matt did a nice job on that.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by tomjasz » May 08 2016 6:11pm

Good shop too!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by Chalo » May 09 2016 10:00am

I fail to see where locking the bbshd to a sleeve in a press fit BB is better than locking it to BB spacers. In both cases you're relying on a smooth face to transmit torque. I reckon it's likely to work fine in either case, as long as everything is properly tightened.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by tomjasz » May 09 2016 10:07am

Chalo wrote:I fail to see where locking the bbshd to a sleeve in a press fit BB is better than locking it to BB spacers. In both cases you're relying on a smooth face to transmit torque. I reckon it's likely to work fine in either case, as long as everything is properly tightened.
Thank you.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by Alan B » May 09 2016 11:30am

Chalo wrote:I fail to see where locking the bbshd to a sleeve in a press fit BB is better than locking it to BB spacers. In both cases you're relying on a smooth face to transmit torque. I reckon it's likely to work fine in either case, as long as everything is properly tightened.
Chalo raises a good point here, but a press fit sleeve could be far tighter (or even glued in addition) than some ring spacers held by a BBSHD nut. But, either could work or fail. BBSxx users do need to keep vigilance on the motor's tightness to avoid problems in the future.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by JayCee » May 09 2016 1:02pm

tomjasz wrote:You DON'T NEED TO SHIM UNDER the fixing plate. There is NO issue except the one you are making up and it's unfounded, without merit, and that of an inexperienced builder with less sense, than cents, apparently. So you sit, with no riding, when what's really lacking is common sense. Thousands of us road our 01's and 02's with a single lockring. The fixing plate fits against the BB and the spacer on top of that. You COULD be riding instead of niggling about details you remain clueless about. You can lead lead a horse to water...
Actually, you're just a hack that would build something dangerous and prone to failure. BBS01s and BBS02s DO work on 68s, BBSHDs do not, so you're arguing in a vacuum. No, you can't just have a 5mm misalignment on the motor mounting plate. No, you can't just bend the 'tabs'. You're being ignorant as well as obstinate.

From the article posted above:
"Many people are unaware of this fact, but yes you can get a 73mm if you wish, but the flip-side is the 73 mm only fits 73 mm shells <emhasis added>, making the 68 mm more versatile to swap to another bike someday, just a little food for thought."

At any rate, my spacers finally arrived. As the drawing on the Bafang site indicated, the 73mm kit IS perfectly centered (as per cranks) on a 68mm frame when the drive side is against the BB, so a 5mm spacer under the mounting plate (non-drive side) is the correct solution for centered cranks. Unfortunately, with this setup, the Luna Eclipse chain ring (with more offset than stock) only had a fraction of a mm clearance to the chain stay. I figured it would likely end up rubbing due to frame flex, so opted to spit the difference and put two half-spacers on either side, yielding only a 2.5mm crank/frame offset which I doubt I'd notice. That also gave fairly close to an optimal chain line.
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I also used the epoxy-blob trick to reduce pressure on the down tube from drive torque.
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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by JayCee » May 09 2016 1:05pm

Chalo wrote:I fail to see where locking the bbshd to a sleeve in a press fit BB is better than locking it to BB spacers. In both cases you're relying on a smooth face to transmit torque. I reckon it's likely to work fine in either case, as long as everything is properly tightened.
The mounting plate is knurled to dig in to the side of the bottom bracket, so its not a smooth surface with installed as designed. The spacers defeat that feature.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by WoodlandHills » May 09 2016 1:51pm

I am trying to figure out why you spaced over the whole drive instead of just the chainring when the whole point of ordering the spacers was to have centered cranks? Couldn't you gotten the needed clearance by hot gluing a washer or three between the chainwheel and the drive at each bolt as a shim and then keeping the centered pedals?

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by Chalo » May 09 2016 8:52pm

JayCee wrote:
Chalo wrote:I fail to see where locking the bbshd to a sleeve in a press fit BB is better than locking it to BB spacers. In both cases you're relying on a smooth face to transmit torque. I reckon it's likely to work fine in either case, as long as everything is properly tightened.
The mounting plate is knurled to dig in to the side of the bottom bracket, so its not a smooth surface with installed as designed. The spacers defeat that feature.
My point is that the knurling digs into the ends of a BB30 adapter sleeve, but the adapter itself is still a smooth fit to the frame. Sure, there's some pressure and friction at the fit, but no direct way to tighten it. Alternately, the lockring jams spacers to the frame as you tighten it. So you can lube the threads and tighten the bejeebers out of the lockring and thereby have some control over the holding force.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by Lurkin » May 09 2016 9:10pm

JayCee wrote:
Chalo wrote:I fail to see where locking the bbshd to a sleeve in a press fit BB is better than locking it to BB spacers. In both cases you're relying on a smooth face to transmit torque. I reckon it's likely to work fine in either case, as long as everything is properly tightened.
The mounting plate is knurled to dig in to the side of the bottom bracket, so its not a smooth surface with installed as designed. The spacers defeat that feature.
So notch a spacer? This solves the rotation issue, but not drive offset.

Chalo the mount is serrated/knurled. It bites into the BB when tightened hard enough. Its not as strong as if it was threaded on, but its certainly been tight enough if decent force is applied. Again, if spacers could be supplied with notching/serration/knurl to match the mount, it would solve this issue and allow the motor offset to remain in line with the frame BB offset. [EDIT] Yeah, just talking to myself here, apologies re read what you wrote. :oops:

Either way, I kinda doubt Bafang will do this. Better off using it with the incorrect matched offset in the short run, buy time to work out a custom spacer solution in the long run.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by JayCee » May 10 2016 8:55am

WoodlandHills wrote:I am trying to figure out why you spaced over the whole drive instead of just the chainring when the whole point of ordering the spacers was to have centered cranks? Couldn't you gotten the needed clearance by hot gluing a washer or three between the chainwheel and the drive at each bolt as a shim and then keeping the centered pedals?
The whole point of ordering the spacers was to be able to mount the drive unit, not to center the cranks. You CANNOT mount a BBSHD "68-73mm" drive unit onto a 68mm bottom bracket without aftermarket spacers. Spacing completely under the mounting plate centers the cranks, as the 73mm kit is designed for a 68mm spacing (even though it can't be mounted on one, ironically), however that creates a potential mechanical problem, as the mounting plate is pressed into a shim and not the BB. Spacing completely on the drive side eliminates the mechanical problem, but creates a 10mm crank offset relative to the chain stays. Since I didn't want a 10mm crank offset I had to live with the potential mechanical problem of shimming under the mounting plate anyway, so I choose to split the difference on the drive unit (2.5mm on each side), eliminate the need for a chain ring spacer, and suck up the 5mm offset.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by speedmd » May 10 2016 2:16pm

Glad to see you got it close to where your happy Jaycee. It is always a bunch of little compromises that get you. Being boxed in with the offset chainring and chainstay clearance gives little choice on where you can place it. Easiest thing for bafang to change to accommodate this specific issue is to lower the mounting bosses for the support bracket and include some small shim washers. Personally, I would like to see a strap style support for the motor and not rely on the little nibs on the bracket to prevent rotation. It all seems a bit light duty to me given how many are using the kits.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by JayCee » May 11 2016 2:15pm

speedmd wrote:Glad to see you got it close to where your happy Jaycee. It is always a bunch of little compromises that get you. Being boxed in with the offset chainring and chainstay clearance gives little choice on where you can place it. Easiest thing for bafang to change to accommodate this specific issue is to lower the mounting bosses for the support bracket and include some small shim washers. Personally, I would like to see a strap style support for the motor and not rely on the little nibs on the bracket to prevent rotation. It all seems a bit light duty to me given how many are using the kits.
I believe that there is a 68mm-specific kit, at least Bafang advertises separate kits on their site. If so, it would have lower mounting bosses on the motor housing, with the entire rest of the assembly identical to the 73mm kit. I suspect that the US sources simply bought all 73mm kits, assuming they would be compatible with the thinner 68mm brackets, when ironically, the exact opposite is true. The 68mm kit (if my motor boss depth assumption is correct) would not only go onto the 68mm bracket unmolested, but would also fit onto a 73mm bracket with 5mm spacers on the motor housing bosses (just as was done with the old BSS02).

An external motor support would be nice - the good news is that the drive torque pushes the motor into place, but I could see it starting to bash around if it gets a little loose.

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by djeg72 » May 14 2016 7:29pm

Hi!

You can add on the list Rocky Mountain Element 50, 2006.

BB width: 73mm
BB inside diameter: 33.7mm

Jerome

p.s. just ordered Bafang BBSHD from Luna cycles, yes yes yes!!!
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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by bentms » May 18 2016 10:37am

Hi Guys,

So I ended up getting a 2010 Giant Anthem X4 and the BBSHD fits like a glove.

Keep the suggestions coming

BenTMS
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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by EMPowered » May 18 2016 1:55pm

Add the bikesdirect fat bike Motobecane Boris the Evil Brut Sprung to the list.
Here is a link to a build article:
https://www.empoweredcycles.com/blogs/n ... bshd-build

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Re: Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

Post by oneoone » May 18 2016 8:06pm

Add the 2006 Specialized Epic Comp

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