How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

Post by robocam » Oct 12 2016 11:22pm

Is that a much better controller? I'm just worried about programming it. I've never done that before. I think I can figure it out though. I wish it was as simple as using and app to control it.

I have a question about your video. Does this sound significantly different than what it sounded like with the stock BBSHD controller, or has the Bluetooth controller changed its characteristics? Is it still steathy and quiet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHleVaz0yaw
StinkyGoalieGuy wrote:Evolution GTS is going to start putting together kits if you can wait. It's supposed to be plug and play with the right connectors and it's a sine wave controller.

sather   100 W

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Re: How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

Post by sather » Oct 13 2016 8:46am

High temperature is the main factor in melting the nylon gear. Torque then strips the teeth off.
Mechanically, the BBSHD is very similar to the BBS02 in design. But the BBSHD has much beefier windings and does not even get warm when abused. Eg. climbing at inappropriate rpms.

I have not installed a temp gauge on the HD but I did put a temp gauge on the controller of my BBS02.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/06/0 ... bs02-unit/
I melted a nylon gear at 140F. But the 140F did not reflect the true temperature of the windings and nylon gear because the temp probe was installed in a different compartment with the controller.

My opinion is that the video by StinkyGoalieGuy of the Cyclone controller/BBSHD is much more noisy than my BBSHD.

BTW: I noticed that the Kelly KLS4812S sine wave controller is speced at 48 volts maximum.

StinkyGoalieGuy   100 W

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Re: How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Oct 13 2016 11:37am

robocam wrote:Is that a much better controller? I'm just worried about programming it. I've never done that before. I think I can figure it out though. I wish it was as simple as using and app to control it.

I have a question about your video. Does this sound significantly different than what it sounded like with the stock BBSHD controller, or has the Bluetooth controller changed its characteristics? Is it still steathy and quiet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHleVaz0yaw
StinkyGoalieGuy wrote:Evolution GTS is going to start putting together kits if you can wait. It's supposed to be plug and play with the right connectors and it's a sine wave controller.

It sounds about the same. There might be an echo in the garage and i think my battery box may be amplifying the vibrations from the frame. You can also hear the ticking of the pawls of the freewheel or clutch as they call it. When it spins freely at high RPMs, it's louder than when I have a full load on it. Under load in the hardest gear, it's pretty much silent. Keep in mind, this is at 52 volts. It will probably be louder at 72 volts. For some reason, even with the stock controller, when the motor was spinning freely, it also made a similar noise. Also, when I took this video, I didn't have the lock ring installed on the other side, so in other words, it was just sitting in the bottom bracket shell not tightened down, so it might have had more vibration. But it is definitely louder than dogboy's Kelly sine wave controller.

Dogboy1200   100 W

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Re: How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

Post by Dogboy1200 » Oct 13 2016 3:33pm

BTW: I noticed that the Kelly KLS4812S sine wave controller is speced at 48 volts maximum

Yeah, that's the spec but I emailed them and they said my 52V battery would be fine. Their customer service is amazing. If you e mail them during their business hours Fanny will return your email with all the answers in minutes. Truly amazing!
2007 Transition Preston FR BBS02 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=73635 Now HD https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=225
2006 KTM 250 XC-W
2005 crf50 stunt bike
Oset 12.5 (son's bike)
PW50 (son's bike)
Mongoose Kids Fat Bike BBS02 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=84133 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... e#p1232034

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

Post by robocam » Oct 13 2016 11:42pm

But he only went 1/4th of a mile. It doesn't seem like that would be enough use to heat up the motor and gears. Regardless, we know 65 amps will likely lead to an early demise.

I'm glad we have the controller noise issue cleared up (that the Cyclone-style controller won't make the BBSHD sound that different). Videos are so misleading sometimes =)

One thing I noticed about the video was that there were definite steps as the motor changed speed. That might be better than the BBSHD's stock controller, but I've never noticed any of those steps with the Cyclone. I'll have to check it again. I hope in use, that's plenty of steps.
sather wrote:High temperature is the main factor in melting the nylon gear. Torque then strips the teeth off.
Mechanically, the BBSHD is very similar to the BBS02 in design. But the BBSHD has much beefier windings and does not even get warm when abused. Eg. climbing at inappropriate rpms.

I have not installed a temp gauge on the HD but I did put a temp gauge on the controller of my BBS02.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/06/0 ... bs02-unit/
I melted a nylon gear at 140F. But the 140F did not reflect the true temperature of the windings and nylon gear because the temp probe was installed in a different compartment with the controller.

My opinion is that the video by StinkyGoalieGuy of the Cyclone controller/BBSHD is much more noisy than my BBSHD.

BTW: I noticed that the Kelly KLS4812S sine wave controller is speced at 48 volts maximum.

StinkyGoalieGuy   100 W

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Re: How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Oct 14 2016 1:12am

robocam wrote:
One thing I noticed about the video was that there were definite steps as the motor changed speed. That might be better than the BBSHD's stock controller, but I've never noticed any of those steps with the Cyclone. I'll have to check it again. I hope in use, that's plenty of steps.
I think I mentioned in one of the threads the reason why the motor wasn't up ramping up more smoothly was because I was holding my phone in one hand while holding the throttle in the other hand (it wasn't mounted on the handlebars) and trying to twist it at the same time. The modulation is pretty decent and you don't feel the steps while you are riding it. I'm sure it would be even smoother with a sine wave controller.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

Post by fechter » Oct 14 2016 8:20am

robocam wrote:But he only went 1/4th of a mile. It doesn't seem like that would be enough use to heat up the motor and gears. Regardless, we know 65 amps will likely lead to an early demise.
sather wrote:High temperature is the main factor in melting the nylon gear. Torque then strips the teeth off.
Mechanically, the BBSHD is very similar to the BBS02 in design. But the BBSHD has much beefier windings and does not even get warm when abused. Eg. climbing at inappropriate rpms.
maximum.
The gear teeth have very little mass and can heat up very quickly. The teeth can heat up much faster than the windings. If it was just too much torque, it would fracture the teeth suddenly. I'm sure it's some combination of the two. This limitation will be hard to get around.

It seems running the motor at a higher rpm (more voltage) and gearing lower at the wheel would give more power with less chance of meltdown. Keeping the internal gear loading down is key.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

Post by robocam » Jun 12 2017 9:24pm

craigsj wrote:Nothing heats up without a source of heat...
Heat is generated due to friction between the gears.

Take a look at the section halfway down the page "Estimated Tooth Temperature in Continuous Operation."

http://www.gearsolutions.com/article/de ... stic-gears

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jpacadd   100 mW

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Re: How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

Post by jpacadd » Jan 19 2020 10:02pm

StinkyGoalieGuy wrote:
Oct 11 2016 12:36am
3) Here you can see the phase wires (thick green, blue, yellow wire) and the wires that go to the hall sensors, after it has been unplugged as explained in the above video:
phase wire BBSHD.jpg
Can someone tell me the form factor or model or whatever of the white connector shown here? I believe they are the hall wires. I was able to buy a used controller cheap to experiment with, but that connector was not included, just the 6 wires.

Is it maybe the same as a 5S balancing connector?

Beyond that any thoughts if I am wasting my time with this? I studied some threads on the controller mod but so many I haven't gotten through yet and not seeing any working bike vids with the modded controller. If it's just bang for the buck I don't care about that, just looking for a bit more boost for cheap, not a crazy power upgrade.
July 2019 first build: 2009 Giant Trance X3 with stock BBSHD 52V
Next build: Just bought used 2009 Giant Trance X4, likely BBSHD also, maybe hotter controller/battery, undecided
Lots of other fun toys: Wildcat X, Xtrainer, 1978 KE100, Hypermotard 1100

StinkyGoalieGuy   100 W

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Re: How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Jan 21 2020 12:40am

Pretty sure it's a JST 2.54 mm pitch connector, but don't quote me on that. You may want to measure to be sure.

I moved on from the cyclone controller to a PhaseRunner with a Cycle Analyst. It was a lot more money but absolutely worth it to me. My use case is a single speed, very quiet commuter bike that I don't do any pedaling on so I don't break a sweat and so I don't need extra clothes at work. I went for high torque instead of speed as I need to climb a 32% grade. But it still tops out at 24MPH on the flats which is plenty since I commute on the trail. It's single speed for reliability, and runs at 25S LiFe, so high RPMs, but geared down to make it easy on the drive train and the nylon BBSHD gear. If I had time to build a pretty battery box, this would be the perfect bike.

This is a good thread for reference: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =4&t=91775

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Marin   1 kW

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Re: How to connect BBSHD to an external controller?

Post by Marin » Jan 21 2020 9:22am

[/quote]

Can someone tell me the form factor or model or whatever of the white connector shown here? I believe they are the hall wires. I was able to buy a used controller cheap to experiment with, but that connector was not included, just the 6 wires.

Is it maybe the same as a 5S balancing connector?

Beyond that any thoughts if I am wasting my time with this? I studied some threads on the controller mod but so many I haven't gotten through yet and not seeing any working bike vids with the modded controller. If it's just bang for the buck I don't care about that, just looking for a bit more boost for cheap, not a crazy power upgrade.
[/quote]

I was able to use a 5s balancing connector, actually I had a longer one I trimmed to 5s with an xacto knife
Marin ex-rental hybrid with 48v bionx...sold
Specialized hardrock with magic pie 4-5
Lunacycle with l/r mid drive coming soon
Kona Caldera with QS 30H (maybe), and phase runner
Giant Yukon bbs02
Kona Abra Cadabra bbshd
Wildfire fat bike bbshd

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