kollmorgan series drivetrain

bzhwindtalker · Jan 28, 2009

hie all this is my first post here, even if i've been watching around for a long time
i'm french so sory for my bad english
THE system

:
- a kollmorgan 24v motor (2000rpm at 24v)
- a 10/100 thooth gear system
- first freewheel
-chain to segond freewheel (on the pedal arm)
-chain to rear 7 speed derailleur, giving me something like 1/7 to 1/15 final gearing

i'ts a first atempt but i trust our system :roll:

i'ts a scool project that will be same coeficient than spanish for my university final evaluation (d'ont like spanish :twisted:

)
what do you think of?

safe · Jan 28, 2009

I like what you are doing, but unless you are planning to do Trails Riding your pedal gearing is going to be too low.

You might do what I did... just bolt your crank attached freewheel to a chainring... you have room to do it. (mount a normal sized front chainring... mine is a bit oversized)

(that gray disk in the middle of the chainring is just a flat piece of metal that I cut and drilled to adapt the freewheel to the chainring)

bzhwindtalker · Jan 28, 2009

i realy get inspired by this picture and that's why i didn't use a crappy 2 chain system
for the big spoket whe thinkd about it and a metal adaptator is curently in progress :wink:
our goals are :
-good low end acceleration
-good speed (35kph would be nice on flat)
-cheap
but for now the battery is 24v 7ah sla so the bike would wheigth around 35kg

safe · Jan 28, 2009

I would just mount a standard 48 tooth front chainring and then adjust the motor location so that there is adequate clearance.

You should be fine.

You might need an idler gear because your chain might skip.

Cyclone uses this technique.

http://www.cyclone-usa.com/index.php

bzhwindtalker · Jan 28, 2009

nice

now the Fw need to be fitted on the pedal, aluminium to acier (iron?) brasing and soldering is imposible, I whas thinking of heavy duty epoxy and microballon, should do the worck.
the other one need proper bolting on the 100 thooth spoket...
still worck to do

etard · Jan 28, 2009

Welcome to ES Windtalker!

Let me understand your system...

How did you attach that freewheel to the Bottom Bracket of the bicycle?

Will you be pedaling this bike at all?

The 2 chain drive is not a bad idea, maybe you could at least design a single speed type pedal system later.

I look foward to seeing the progress you and your students make.

MitchJi · Jan 28, 2009

Hi,

bzhwindtalker said:
nice
now the Fw need to be fitted on the pedal, aluminium to acier (iron?) brasing and soldering is imposible, I whas thinking of heavy duty epoxy and microballon, should do the worck.
the other one need proper bolting on the 100 thooth spoket...
still worck to do

I'm not sure what you are asking. Is this what you are asking for information on (installing a FW on the chainring)?:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1757&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45

Another configuration (there is a freewheel on the chainring):
http://www.bike-elektro-antrieb.ch/home.htm

And another. This has two chains. One from the rear hub to the motor and one from the motor to the crank. A FW on the motor prevents the motor from back-driving the shaft. This arrangement, with 2 chains allows regen without back-driving the pedals.

I would just mount a standard 48 tooth front chainring...

I agree with the recommendation of a bigger chainring.

bzhwindtalker · Jan 29, 2009

the 1 chain drivetrain seems realy simpler to me, and I think it would be less noisy
our main problem is how to install the fw on the chain ring like you said
we asked the mechanics section at school but it is impossible to them to solder (or anything else) the aluminium pedal on the undetermined steel of the fw, and they said that the soldering would break anything in the fw, so I trusted them :lol:
so my current idea is to use epoxy glue with aluminum realy small parts in it.
thanks all for support

Miles · Jan 29, 2009

bz,

You need to get some trials cranks - they are threaded to accept a front freewheel....

http://www.webcyclery.com/product.php?productid=16644&cat=415&page=1

bzhwindtalker · Jan 29, 2009

fine, but theses cranks are about the same price that the whole project so they are realy too expensive for us
there is a ebike shop in town, and the seller is quite enthusiast for our project and he sell panasonic and cyclone systems, so maybe he has some nice fw cranks left... dream is free :?

Miles · Jan 29, 2009

The Cyclone ones are less than $50:

http://www.cyclone-usa.com/store.php?crn=203

bzhwindtalker · Jan 29, 2009

I think i will try epoxy/aluminum and consider these cranks for later, when the others problems will be solved and I get a bit more cash

but we aslo modified the current crank to get all the drivetrain on the same line so...
the one chain system seems realy simple when you finaly mouted in place all the stuff.
whe burned alot of brain thinking of the drivetrain

safe · Jan 29, 2009

I'm going to be surprised if an epoxy will have the strength to handle the stress. I went through 5-6 attempts on a "transaxle" that kept breaking due to stress and those were welded together.

Don't be disappointed if epoxy doesn't work... it's a long shot...

MitchJi · Jan 29, 2009

Hi,

I'm not sure what you are asking. Is this what you are asking for information on (installing a FW on the chainring)?:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1757&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45

I'm sorry. I wasn't thinking clearly. The solution Miles posted or this Tandem Crank will be easier than a DIY solution:
http://www.bikepartsusa.com/bikepar...-System,-39x1.75,-Front,-Crank&category=crank

Miles said:
bz,

You need to get some trials cranks - they are threaded to accept a front freewheel....

http://www.webcyclery.com/product.php?productid=16644&cat=415&page=1

One thing to be aware of is people have found it necessary to replace the original FW's with the Cyclone Crank and with the Tandem Crank with White FW's. It sounds like a White FW by itself might exceed your budget.

bzhwindtalker · Jan 29, 2009

yes i know... but for primary testing it'd like a diy solution, at least i will try to find one :?
i currently use cheap bmx freewheels (5$ each) and i get chocked when i see prices of the popular eno FW's!
i found some information about running a koll of an external controller and it seems that the motor accept 1.6kw burst, that is something like 2hp :roll:

my 50cc 2 speed yahama is about the same power, and weight 80kg....
do you think this motor can run on a RC controller? I have some 30 ah esc's in my hardware box and will test it no load someday :mrgreen:

MitchJi · Jan 29, 2009

Hi,

bzhwindtalker said:
the 1 chain drivetrain seems realy simpler to me, and I think it would be less noisy

I wasn't suggesting you change it. I like what you have done so far.

I thought you might like to see some other possibilities. Two chain setups are not inherently noisier.

bzhwindtalker · Jan 30, 2009

we were first thinking of a 2 stage reduction with a belt reduction and the normal chaining but the system spined in the wrong direction due of ccw of the koll ! so we had to design a gear stage to invert rotation. so the project was beginning to be a bit complicated at 3 stage :roll:

i just went to see what about my epoxy, and it seems to be well. i will try it on a normal bike to see if it's strong enough.

we will have all our stuff (batteries, 10thooth gear ...) on wednesday .

John in CR · Jan 30, 2009

I'd try a small screw through each tooth of the FW to the chain ring, and a metalized epoxy in addition. Welding/brazing may not work, but a mechanical fastener can. Probably wouldn't even need the epoxy.

John

bzhwindtalker · Feb 4, 2009

update!
fixed the 1rst FW to the big gear
get the chainring and the rear dÃƒÂ©railleur in order of work
had a bit of testing, seems to worck as predicted, at least on the bench
now i need to fit a bigger spoket on the 2gnd FW.
the bike is not a piece of art but I'm glad it will perform well.

bzhwindtalker · Feb 11, 2009

hello all
just found a slavaged frame...
after a bit of worck removing the horrific darck color, the frame appear to be a nice orbea dakar frame,
god may exist after all :roll:

so the project will update on a better frame and forck :mrgreen:

bzhwindtalker · Feb 21, 2009

even if mk1 is not ready to run, cause of this holly crank, i'm alerady thinking of mk2, with same motor, gearing, but with another bike (the orbea one) and cheap lipos' (60$ for 6S 8ah... :lol: )
the bike will be around 18 kg and "I hope" it will perform 40kph

nieles · Feb 23, 2009

hi

could you post a link to the lipo batteries?

very nice bikes btw.

bzhwindtalker · Mar 1, 2009

http://cgi.ebay.com/RC-Lab-4000mah-22-2v-15c-Li-Po-Li-polymer-Battery-Akku_W0QQitemZ180324737204QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio_Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item180324737204&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

just ordered my lipos' , I dunno how far I'll go on 200wh, but i am thinking of paralleling them with 24v 18ah of sla, mounted in removable bags each side of the main triangle frame, for longer trips. I need to find some infos on how to get the best of a hybrid technology battery. the battery box will be glass fiber/polyester
i am currently trying some drawings, old scool rendering :lol: , i will post them later .

bzhwindtalker · Mar 17, 2009

smal vid of last week test ride, playing in scool, nobody said it was wrong to play so we enjoyed the ride inside, away from rain

[youtube]QcsnZTSDgow[/youtube]

d'ont know how to post the vid here.... ok seems to worck
I see mk1 as a running prototype, we did crucial errors on engineering, like the motor mount witch have a 10mm clearance with the pedal one side and touch on the other side....

gearing is a bit low, so acceleration is ok but a bit slow and we're not taking the best of rear dÃƒÂ©railleur. not easy to manage all stuff on the bike and a nice documentation in less than 40hrs! we have 8hrs left so we will only be able to make a battery mount and to extend pot wires as well :lol:
''c'est trop enorme''

bzhwindtalker · Mar 20, 2009

new video of segond test ride , batterys were half empty
[youtube]eG3W91UlhDk[/youtube]

kollmorgan series drivetrain

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