Help me choosing a 10kW continuous system

Byte

1 kW
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
343
Location
Venlo, Netherlands
Hi all!

For a new project I am searching for a very powerful brushless system. My previous bikes were all build with RC components, topping out at 13kW peak power. Now, I am looking for more power, much more...

I am seeking for help choosing a plug and play system for my new project. It will be a complete custom designed bicycle which should have amazing performances. I am not very experienced with non-RC systems, therefore I would appreciate your help. My specifications for the system:

  • - System type:
    • Brushless
    - (More or less) Plug-and-play:
    • no endless controller programming please
    - Power:
    • Around 10kW continuous, 30kW peak I guess
    - Voltage:
    • Maximum 74V nominal (20S LiPo)
    - Price:
    • $1500 maximum for motor and controller


There is one project on this forum that I see power-wise as my ultimate dream, which is the deathbike made by Luke: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28921 Luke used a Goldenmotor HPM-10KW Brushless DC Motor in combination with a Sevcon controller. I really like the performance of the Goldenmotor. However, I have read very bad things about programming Sevcon controllers. Goldenmotor also lists a controller for their motor; does someone have experience with this?

Link to the Goldenmotor controller and motor (scroll down a bit): https://www.goldenmotor.com/frame-bldcmotor.htm



Please give me your input on this, I highly appreciate every kind of tips.
 
atarijedi said:
APT96600 or APT120600 controller.

Ever tested one on a dyno?

Mine APT controller said 24s and 420amps but exploded after less than 15 seconds at around 100amps while being cooled directly by the propwash of the dyno propeller.

Maybe they are better now (I hope, as mosfets and control chips have improved a lot), but I would be stunned to see 10kW continuously from anything using hobby ESC cooling 'strategy' that at least in my experience tends to end in auto-incineration.
 
liveforphysics said:
atarijedi said:
APT96600 or APT120600 controller.

Ever tested one on a dyno?

Mine APT controller said 24s and 420amps but exploded after less than 15 seconds at around 100amps while being cooled directly by the propwash of the dyno propeller.

Maybe they are better now (I hope, as mosfets and control chips have improved a lot), but I would be stunned to see 10kW continuously from anything using hobby ESC cooling 'strategy' that at least in my experience tends to end in auto-incineration.

That being said and since your one of the pioneers of high power what would liveforphysics recommendation(s) be for high power on what's available today? (Like one of the old EF Hutten commercials.....everyone stops to listen!)

I have a MaxE and while 14kw is fun with a QS205 I think I always wonder what could be going to a QS273 and ???

Tom
 
http://accelerated-systems.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/BAC-8000-Product-Sheet.pdf

That controller setup with excellent cooling (it's 8kW continuous rating is with not excellent cooling) is about as tiny as you want to go for 10kW continuously.
 
litespeed said:
I'm already at 14kw....looking to go higher.....

Tom

Who wouldn't be at only 14kW. :p

Notice that 600amp phase current peak and 320amps for 1min with no heatsinking. I'm running only 16s through mine just because it's how many cells the Nyx frame holds across it in a low neat package for my off road ebike.
 
My bad....didn't read that sheet.....WOW that peaks at almost 58 horse power!!!

What is the cost of that?

Tom
 
litespeed said:
My bad....didn't read that sheet.....WOW that peaks at almost 58 horse power!!!

What is the cost of that?

Tom

Under $1k.
 
SlowCo said:
Cyclone seems to have a 18kW motor and controller ($549.- + $289.- excl. shipp.&tax):
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/motor.html

They are used on their ebike:

I suppose that is 18kW peak? The motor looks rather small. I cannot find any datasheet on their website either?


liveforphysics said:
http://accelerated-systems.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/BAC-8000-Product-Sheet.pdf

That controller setup with excellent cooling (it's 8kW continuous rating is with not excellent cooling) is about as tiny as you want to go for 10kW continuously.


What kind of motor do you use in your setup? Would you recommend this controller with the 10kW Goldenmotor?
 
liveforphysics said:
atarijedi said:
APT96600 or APT120600 controller.

Ever tested one on a dyno?

Mine APT controller said 24s and 420amps but exploded after less than 15 seconds at around 100amps while being cooled directly by the propwash of the dyno propeller.

Maybe they are better now (I hope, as mosfets and control chips have improved a lot), but I would be stunned to see 10kW continuously from anything using hobby ESC cooling 'strategy' that at least in my experience tends to end in auto-incineration.

Which APT controller did you have? the 96600? And it blew up on you?
 
Byte said:
SlowCo said:
Cyclone seems to have a 18kW motor and controller ($549.- + $289.- excl. shipp.&tax):
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/motor.html

They are used on their ebike:

I suppose that is 18kW peak? The motor looks rather small. I cannot find any datasheet on their website either?


liveforphysics said:
http://accelerated-systems.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/BAC-8000-Product-Sheet.pdf

That controller setup with excellent cooling (it's 8kW continuous rating is with not excellent cooling) is about as tiny as you want to go for 10kW continuously.


What kind of motor do you use in your setup? Would you recommend this controller with the 10kW Goldenmotor?

I am still looking for input on choosing a good system. Luke?
 
Have anyone tested the new line of controllers from QS?
The LBMC? They got a 72v700A almost at the bottom of the page in the link below. If my top of the math worked it should meet your 30 kw peak and then some, always good to have a little head room....it seems price are about three times the APT, at 1485$. Should be able to push enough current into a 273 to ensure a lot of fun and a big grin on your face.
http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_read/LBMC120103%2010kw-12kw%20140km/h%20Brushless%20motor%20controlle/516.html

You could try to score a second hand dlc 28 clone and mobipus 72600 combo if anyone got one for sale. That combo was used on the sickest supermoto conversion I ever seen. 50 kw + peak power iirc. And price 4 combo wasn't at all bad. Conversion done by an aussie es member sketchism(??) iirc.

Now if that 18 kw cyclone is anywhere close to their given output I guess run as a left side drive with proper chain and sprockets that would be a light weight hill climber with insane acceleration. I've seen that motor mentioned once or twice on the forum but never seen anyone that actually tested the motor. If it would work with the LBMC controller you would be 500 $ over your target price but could be worth it?

Here is a Aprilia conversion using Golden Motor 10 kw and Kelly 96601 controller. Seems the front wheel gets very light when cracking the throttle open :)

I found a test sheet for the Golden Motor 10 KW, seems they only fed motor 160 A for 15 kw. Water cooled peak A could be 3 times that or more?




Will follow this thread, the outcome might just spark some inspiration.
 
liveforphysics said:
http://accelerated-systems.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/BAC-8000-Product-Sheet.pdf

That controller setup with excellent cooling (it's 8kW continuous rating is with not excellent cooling) is about as tiny as you want to go for 10kW continuously.


Accelerated systems? The same guys that did the hardware for Justin's Phaserunner?
What motor do you run that controller on at the moment? I couldn't find detailed specs about the ASI 8K controller, will the controller work well for RC motors in terms of max eRPM? Will it run without halls?

Seems that could be a match for the 18 kw cyclone.

How about setup and fine tuning? Hard to set up?

Wonder why we don't see more people run that controller here? Price seems fair, size is good and peak power seems to be in the fun part. I browsed quickly their website/shop but they didn't list that controller in their shop, is it OEM only maybe? Or purchase possible for everyone?
 
i contacted them recently re the higher power models - theyre expecting new stock early next year.
 
At the moment, I still don't have the ASI #8000 to comment on how it does. When it arrives I will let you know how it does. Most of their stuff is relatively easy to tune and setup.
 
Luke, Is that because of availability or just waiting for some reason?

My most pressing question is if I could get a quicker throttle response? I love everything about my Max-E except the roll the throttle and wait.....but once it gets there it's pretty awesome! I'd love to have high horsepower 2 stroke with a properly tuned CVT throttle response!

Tom
 
macribs said:
Have anyone tested the new line of controllers from QS?
The LBMC? They got a 72v700A almost at the bottom of the page in the link below. If my top of the math worked it should meet your 30 kw peak and then some, always good to have a little head room....it seems price are about three times the APT, at 1485$. Should be able to push enough current into a 273 to ensure a lot of fun and a big grin on your face.
http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_read/LBMC120103%2010kw-12kw%20140km/h%20Brushless%20motor%20controlle/516.html

You could try to score a second hand dlc 28 clone and mobipus 72600 combo if anyone got one for sale. That combo was used on the sickest supermoto conversion I ever seen. 50 kw + peak power iirc. And price 4 combo wasn't at all bad. Conversion done by an aussie es member sketchism(??) iirc.

Now if that 18 kw cyclone is anywhere close to their given output I guess run as a left side drive with proper chain and sprockets that would be a light weight hill climber with insane acceleration. I've seen that motor mentioned once or twice on the forum but never seen anyone that actually tested the motor. If it would work with the LBMC controller you would be 500 $ over your target price but could be worth it?

Here is a Aprilia conversion using Golden Motor 10 kw and Kelly 96601 controller. Seems the front wheel gets very light when cracking the throttle open :)

I found a test sheet for the Golden Motor 10 KW, seems they only fed motor 160 A for 15 kw. Water cooled peak A could be 3 times that or more?




Will follow this thread, the outcome might just spark some inspiration.


Hi Macribs! Thank you for your reply, very nice information you're providing.

I like the DLC 28 motor, however I prefer to buy something new to prevent any trouble in case something doesn't work. Also I prefer to have it air cooled instead of liquid cooled, makes my life easier. Buying this motor new it's quite expensive too :lol:

The conversion with the GM 10kW motor looks very good! I like it. The guy who build it says the Kelly 96601 is crap though. But the motor should be okay I think. Looking at the price, this motor fits me more.

I also saw the Motenergy ME1114, 10kW continious, 24kW peak. At $1050. Not bad I guess. Anyone have any experience with this one?
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/e...motor-24-72v-5000rpm-10-kw-cont-24-kw-pk.html


Regarding controllers, I read a lot of bad things about different controller manufacturers... I need to do some research on this one.
 
I got more debt to settle before I am in the clear with this forum. All the help and all the debates done here have helped me in my quest for all ebike all the time. Sharing is caring you know ;)

The ASI # 8000 that Luke mentions will be available during Q1 2018. You might wanna check out their evaluation package, as this seems like a real sweet deal. All cables, connections, just everything you need is included with the controller. Including up to one hour of free engineering support. http://accelerated-systems.com/eval/ be sure to sign up for their newsletter so you get notifications whenever the 8kw controller will be available for the general public.
 
Lol it would be funny to see a bht motor at 10kw cont... its only 10x the rating on the motor. It will probably still outlast the GM pancake motors.

And just because a kelly controller doesnt work with one particular setup/motor, doesn’t mean they are “crap”

It could be the motor that is crap or the software needs reflashing. I found out the hard way that the new kls controllers dont work with the lrhdd motors but with a eastgem motor it is freaking awesome
 
skeetab5780 said:
Lol it would be funny to see a bht motor at 10kw cont... its only 10x the rating on the motor. It will probably still outlast the GM pancake motors.

And just because a kelly controller doesnt work with one particular setup/motor, doesn’t mean they are “crap”

It could be the motor that is crap or the software needs reflashing. I found out the hard way that the new kls controllers dont work with the lrhdd motors but with a eastgem motor it is freaking awesome

Did You already test the eastgem motor on a bike?
 
This seemed like the best place to post since I am also searching for a similar controller. However my build plans is with 24s battery and QS273 v3 40H. I'm looking for 400 to 600 phase amps. Lots of torque heavy start and stops. I might need to add a heatsink.

Edit: That ASI 8000w controller looks very appealing. The pdf sheet shows the bluetooth app on an iPhone. Anyone know if it works with android also?
 
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