DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

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eBlur   1 mW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by eBlur » Oct 10 2019 11:26am

Just to double-check... in the original schematic posted by @fechter "BBS02/BBSHD Pas Correction" there appears two be two transistor symbols. I'm assuming this is just a single KSP13BU as it looks like just one in everyone's actual build photos ;)

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Rassy   10 MW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by Rassy » Oct 10 2019 11:28am

I did some edits on bench testing in my previous post. Maybe this will help once you get the electronics sorted out.
-Rassy-

Two Delta Trikes equipped with a Bafang BBS02
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=88536&p=1291260#p1291260

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by fechter » Oct 10 2019 7:26pm

eBlur wrote:
Oct 10 2019 11:26am
Just to double-check... in the original schematic posted by @fechter "BBS02/BBSHD Pas Correction" there appears two be two transistor symbols. I'm assuming this is just a single KSP13BU as it looks like just one in everyone's actual build photos ;)
Correct. That's the symbol for a Darlington.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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eBlur   1 mW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by eBlur » Oct 10 2019 9:56pm

Jackpot! I think I’m good.

Took it apart and confirmed 4.95V at pas connector and blue throttle wire was showing 0.81V idle and 4.05V wide open.

Redid the transistor circuit - this time I used the 2N5308 (different pin configs) and it’s happier.

Getting 4.94V on PAS when idle and as soon as I hit throttle it drops to 0.63V peddling or not.

Going to seal it all up with some RTV. Excited to get my frame back so I can road test this.

Thanks for all the help and patience as I worked it out. Much appreciated!

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by fechter » Oct 11 2019 9:23am

That should work. Let us know how it works out.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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eBlur   1 mW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by eBlur » Oct 13 2019 9:59am

Just an FYI that I had reached out to Luna tech support to see if they had any kind of a firmware fix for this issue. As of Oct 2019 here was their reply:

"Yes they all have this issue. If you’re peddling you can’t use the throttle at the same time.
Essentially if you’re using the throttle you have to stop peddling and vice-versa.
As far as the firmware we’re working on a solution to this but do not have it
fully figured out yet."

@Rassy - you may want to edit the first-post 5/29/19 edit that eludes to a possible-firmware fix, unless you've got any kind of confirmation from someone that has tried and succeeded on firmware that Luna hasn't seen...

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Rassy   10 MW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by Rassy » Oct 13 2019 12:55pm

Thanks eBlur, I updated the first post of this thread as you suggested.
-Rassy-

Two Delta Trikes equipped with a Bafang BBS02
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=88536&p=1291260#p1291260

p913   1 µW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by p913 » Oct 17 2019 3:31am

I can confirm I tried the firmware changes on the page linked and this did not solve the throttle issues for me.

The only solution I have found is by disabling PAS with software settings. And just using throttle as needed.

I have attached a snap of my settings. Note you can play around with PAS settings to adjust max throttle on each level. The most important one I found is.

On basic tab: Make sure assist 0 is limited to 0 current and 0 speed.
On pedal assist tab: change designated assist level from by display to 0.

This relies on the fact that I have no throttle response on PAS0

This has made the BBSHD usable. Would be nice to have PAS. But at least I have smooth throttle and can pedal as needed without jerking around. (also I don't have to pull the motor apart which is a plus)

Hope this helps.
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Rassy   10 MW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by Rassy » Oct 17 2019 10:49am

Thanks P913. I think you may have found a nice partial solution to the Pedal/Throttle issue.

In reading your post and looking at your firmware settings I wonder what would happen if instead of setting the Designated Assist Level to 0 in the Pedal Assist section you set it to 0 just in the Throttle Handle section? Then it seems when you ride in PAS level 0 you "might" be able to pedal and/or use the throttle with smooth throttle control. This may not help in the other PAS levels, but as long as you didn't use the throttle you would still have full PAS support, and maybe it would even affect the throttle response in the other PAS levels.

Have you or could you try this and let us know what happens?

Edit: Okay, I see the fallacy in my logic. Please ignore this post! (Well, maybe)
-Rassy-

Two Delta Trikes equipped with a Bafang BBS02
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=88536&p=1291260#p1291260

p913   1 µW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by p913 » Oct 18 2019 3:39am

Rassy wrote:
Oct 17 2019 10:49am
Thanks P913. I think you may have found a nice partial solution to the Pedal/Throttle issue.

In reading your post and looking at your firmware settings I wonder what would happen if instead of setting the Designated Assist Level to 0 in the Pedal Assist section you set it to 0 just in the Throttle Handle section? Then it seems when you ride in PAS level 0 you "might" be able to pedal and/or use the throttle with smooth throttle control. This may not help in the other PAS levels, but as long as you didn't use the throttle you would still have full PAS support, and maybe it would even affect the throttle response in the other PAS levels.

Have you or could you try this and let us know what happens?

Edit: Okay, I see the fallacy in my logic. Please ignore this post! (Well, maybe)
Yeah I did try this. But when you set pedal assist to 0 in throttle section it just kills the throttle completely. It's the same as using my settings then using the screen to switch to PAS0 and notice it disables the throttle. Using the settings I put up you have 0 throttle on PAS0, full throttle on PAS1 and increasing maximum throttle on each of the other PAS settings. Note these may be too low for some. My PAS2 is very week and barely faster than walking the bike when on max throttle.

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eBlur   1 mW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by eBlur » Oct 25 2019 5:59pm

All back together and took it for a quick spin - works flawlessly! Don't know how I rode with the factory behavior, now that I know how it *should* work.

A BIG THANK YOU to the awesome pioneers of this mod!

Art   100 µW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by Art » Oct 31 2019 7:00pm

To paraphrase Sir Isaac Newton, "If I have seen further, it is because I have stood on the handlebars of giants." Many thanks to the folks in this thread whose inquisitiveness, intelligence and mechanical ability have brought us closer to a solution.

I have purchased the two types of Darlington transistors and the resistor mentioned in the thread, and may just pick up a Luna controller and commence surgery.

Wish me luck!

Enric   1 mW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by Enric » Nov 01 2019 4:03pm

Thanks for all the foolks to help with that incredible error of bafang.

Two months ago I purchased one controller to replace the controller of my BBSHD that I broke unpotting to make the 50amp mod.
But the new one has the throttle/pas issue.
I make the mod like fletcher says with a KSP13BU transistor and works fine.

Thanks for share your knowledge.

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by FlatBlack » Dec 13 2019 9:57pm

All,

I bought a BBS02 in November, finally got the battery pack built and have been commuting on the bike this week. PAS 2 felt most natural to me, but I really just want to be able to throttle to 100% power at any time. Most times, I don't want pedal assist at all.

Flashed the controller tonight after being annoyed with the stock settings (following this thread https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/06/2 ... the-bbs02/), and my PAS 0 throttle settings are acting funky as stated in the Original Post.

Sometimes it will let me pedal while holding the throttle, but if I try to adjust the throttle or go off and back on with the throttle, I have to stop pedaling to get the throttle to activate again.

I'm really hoping there's a software fix, as I don't want to dig into the controller wiring.

May try P913's settings out since I think I can live without the PAS.
Mat - LS1 240LSX, E36 M3 Sedan, Kawasaki Z125, Rocky Mountain Hammer with 48V/750W BBS02

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by fechter » Dec 14 2019 3:13pm

FlatBlack wrote:
Dec 13 2019 9:57pm

I'm really hoping there's a software fix, as I don't want to dig into the controller wiring.

May try P913's settings out since I think I can live without the PAS.
It's pretty easy to open the controller side and simply unplug the PAS connector. This will disable PAS completely and you can use the throttle. I rode like this for about a year before coming up with the circuit mod.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by cavi » Feb 17 2020 12:48pm

I am a bit of a loss as I bought a BBSHD in November for my bike and a BBS02 two weeks ago for my wife's bike and both of those work fine I can still run throttle while pedaling in any PAS setting. I do have PAS set for 1 as I did read somewhere that it needed to be a minimum of 1 for both throttle and PAS to work togeather

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: DIY Fix for BBS02/BBSHD Pedal/Throttle Issue

Post by fechter » Feb 17 2020 1:10pm

You may have been lucky and got ones where the firmware is correct. It seems only certain versions of the firmware have this problem.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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