Kelly KLS7230S Identification angel operation function

Hd96

100 µW
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
8
I have a Kelly KLS7230S Controller that is paired to an rc motor with hall sensors. Currently, I am having a problem with the Identification angel operation function. I wired it according to Kelly’s manual and followed their steps. The process starts up for a little bit but never completes and also makes a clicking noise. I attached a video of this happening.
https://youtu.be/27jtLZphQdY
 
Oh hey, I'm having the exact same experience. You might even have the same motor that I do (FRC Hobby 120100 50kv sensored outrunner, which are the same as the Alien Power Systems and Epowerhobby outrunners). Clicks and "bumps" 7 or 8 times, then just sits there laughing at you until you reboot everything and and it tries again.

I was eventually able to get it to tell me that there was a Hall sensor error. I've been super busy so I haven't been able to work on it again in the last week, but it's very possible that the hall sensor wiring might not be a straight color-match for the Kelly. I looked up the pinout for the Alien power sensored ESC, and I definitely had to swap a couple pins.

Assuming the connector on the motor is actually wired correctly: Black is ground, Green is Phase C, Blue is Phase B, Yellow is Phase A, and Red is +5V. If you just matched up the colors, with the Kelly wiring diagram, you should be good to go after swapping Green and Blue.

Outside of that, my next step is to connect an adjustable DC-DC converter to the controller's 12v output, and gradually feed the halls more voltage to see if it's just a weak signal.

I re-wired the sensor cable, but haven't gotten to try the auto-identify again yet. Try some of that and let me know what happens if I don't get a chance to myself.
 
I just tried the wiring you suggested and unfortunately it’s still doing the same thing.
 
Hd96 said:
I just tried the wiring you suggested and unfortunately it’s still doing the same thing.

The halls might want more voltage then. I'll take a stab at it tomorrow.

Edit:

I haven't tested the wiring this way, but people have received Alien Power motors with really wacky hall wiring. Quote below is from the VESC forums. https://vesc-project.com/node/360
Are you sure the halls are working? I had an APS motor where the hall sensor wires broke so many times that I switched to external hall sensors.

I also had to ask APS for the wiring diagram for my motor. For mine it was: yellow - positive, red - negative, black white blue - sensor signals, green - temp. I had the 3000w 63mm motor.

Another possibility:
klasdja said:
I used a diode on the green,yellow and blue hall wires with the cathode on the motor side of the connection. That's it.
I'm not sure of the type of diode. I ended up just using the three that were included with the controller.
 
Interesting, I’ll try some other wirings today. I might just switch to external hall sensors though.
 
Hd96 said:
Interesting, I’ll try some other wirings today. I might just switch to external hall sensors though.

Hopefully I can get my test bench set up again today to try a few more things myself. I just want to know this motor/controller combo is going to work so I can keep working on my bike.
 
No dice. Gonna take it apart to check the hall sensor board, but most likely I'll end up adding some new/better/working sensors.
 
Hi Phate & HD96, do you guys have access to a multimeter?
If you put power to the hall sensors and all your wiring is correct and the hall sensors are working, you should be able to see the hall sensor output voltage rising and falling as you turn the motor slowly by hand. This is a good way to test that you have the wiring correct and that the halls are working. It won't tell you what order the hall sensors should be connected, but it will confirm which wires are outputs from the halls, and whether they are working.
 
phate said:
No dice. Gonna take it apart to check the hall sensor board, but most likely I'll end up adding some new/better/working sensors.

I was originally going to replace the hall sensors internally but I had a lot of problems with the bolts stripping so for me at least that’s out of the question. I’m going to install external hall sensors and see how that works. I’m probably going to buy a different controller regardless because I’ve heard of people having issues with external hall sensors above 3kw.
 
Drum said:
Hi Phate & HD96, do you guys have access to a multimeter?
If you put power to the hall sensors and all your wiring is correct and the hall sensors are working, you should be able to see the hall sensor output voltage rising and falling as you turn the motor slowly by hand. This is a good way to test that you have the wiring correct and that the halls are working. It won't tell you what order the hall sensors should be connected, but it will confirm which wires are outputs from the halls, and whether they are working.

Thank you for the input. I will try this when I get a chance.
 
Drum said:
Hi Phate & HD96, do you guys have access to a multimeter?
If you put power to the hall sensors and all your wiring is correct and the hall sensors are working, you should be able to see the hall sensor output voltage rising and falling as you turn the motor slowly by hand. This is a good way to test that you have the wiring correct and that the halls are working. It won't tell you what order the hall sensors should be connected, but it will confirm which wires are outputs from the halls, and whether they are working.

Yeah, I was trying this yesterday with a bunch of wiring combinations. I think the wiring on my halls are completely wrong, or they don't work at all.
 
The auto detection of the kellys is not the best. Some motors require many tries until the detection is succesful even though nothing is wrong. At least the program has a diagnostic screen where it's possible to readout the hall signals.

The behaviour in the video is what it looks like both for succesful and unsuccesful identification. Only difference between these is that when auto id is succesful controller eventually blinks the red error LED, after that you have to do a second shutoff of controller. It then resets itself to "85" in the auto id parameter in the program and the auto-id is finished. Not very logical.

I've had attempts where the auto id is never OK but still the correct hall and phase combination has been set on the controller. It was like this with the original hall sensors in my motor when the sensors were not placed in the correct location.

Troubleshooting
If halls are powered correctly then you can see their status in the Kelly program.
If they are not powered correctly you get an error message. First get them visible without error :D
There's no point running the auto id if you have hall errors.

KLS controller sends 12V to the halls so it's normally not a matter of too low volts to the halls if the controller isn't broken. You can measure the volts between the hall + cable on the controller to hall ground and verify that it's feeding the halls.

Go to the diagnostic screen in the user program.
Turn the motor slowly by hand and note the different hall signal combinations. If hall signals follow the order in this table on the diagnostic screen in the Kelly program then they are connected in the right order:
101-->001-->011...etc

The signals can be commutating in the opposite order also, depending on what direction motor is turned vs the rotation used in the table.

If you get 000 or 111 hall status then either halls are not functioning properly or you have 60 degrees hall commutation motor which has a different commutation table. Google is your friend for this table, i won't link it since 120 deg hall commutation is the most common :D

If the signals don't follow this order then try the automatic detection again. Turn the motor and check the hall signals again.

If that doesn't get you correct commutation order then you can manually switch the hall connections until they follow the order in the table.

If signals are following table and motor still doesn't work smoothly and with good torque: try to switch between the possible phase wire connection combinations. It's a quick and easy job, just write down which you have tried and try them all.

If you get a good combination but wrong direction then switch direction in the program.

If It still doesn't work and you have done all above then your halls are most likely not functioning properly or not placed in the correct position in the motor..

Tough luck.. You will probably have to move or change the halls :wink:
 
Hi I am using Kelly KLS14301-8080I.

I was also getting an auto-identification error.
My solution was to replace the number of poles with the factory default one.

The electric motor I use is 30 poles. But when I typed 8 poles the automatic identification was successful.
 
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