GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Tommm   10 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Sep 04 2019 8:25am

endrew wrote:
Sep 04 2019 5:16am
OK, Thanks!
Id like to hear from your experience if that's actually the case?
Yes, some people use asi bac2000 and other 80a+ controllers on it.

jdev   1 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by jdev » Sep 10 2019 3:21am

CYC has informed me that the black 72v torque sense version will be shipped soon, the version I'm getting. I can't wait to post progress pics of my build for you guys, I have a cycle analyst 3 installed so I'll be tuning optimal settings for that to make up for the weaknesses in the beta app. Here are some of the pictures they sent me:

Also, it appears they traded the dreaded clamp for a proper strap. If anyone else has gotten feedback of a estimated shipping date I'd appreciate it being posted:

Image
Image
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knurf   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Sep 10 2019 4:34am

CYC has informed me that the black 72v torque sense version will be shipped soon, the version I'm getting. I can't wait to post progress pics of my build for you guys, I have a cycle analyst 3 installed so I'll be tuning optimal settings for that to make up for the weaknesses in the beta app. Here are some of the pictures they sent me:
Woah that's beautiful! Please post more pics when you do get your hands on it. Do you know the correct Cycle Analyst values for the temperature sensor in these things?

I think these motors can be pushed as hard as the Tangent, just need to keep an eye on the temps. The CYC motor/gearbox produces incredibly little heat compared to that kit (which is basically a stove). It's also less noisy.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Grantmac » Sep 10 2019 11:39am

Looks like the freewheel now runs directly on the bottom bracket, hopefully that takes care of the wobble which is plaguing all of this style of mid-drive.
Although unless my eyes deceive me, the cranks are now square taper.

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PaulD   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by PaulD » Sep 10 2019 12:52pm

jdev wrote:
Sep 10 2019 3:21am
CYC has informed me that the black 72v torque sense version will be shipped soon, the version I'm getting. I can't wait to post progress pics of my build for you guys, I have a cycle analyst 3 installed so I'll be tuning optimal settings for that to make up for the weaknesses in the beta app. Here are some of the pictures they sent me:
Is that the BB92 press fit version? Interested to see how well that works.
More interested in the torque sensor. I don't see any wires or indication that it's measuring torque at the BB or crank.

jdev   1 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by jdev » Sep 10 2019 4:36pm

PaulD wrote:
Sep 10 2019 12:52pm
Is that the BB92 press fit version? Interested to see how well that works.
More interested in the torque sensor. I don't see any wires or indication that it's measuring torque at the BB or crank.
It does look like the pressfit torque sensing version since it looks identical to the one in their last facebook post. Torque sensor is built internally, no hole required to be drilled in frame like other torque sensors, I'm just not sure how they're going to connect it electronically.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by hypertoric_amplituhedron » Sep 15 2019 11:15am

Wow, I like the new kit in all black, with the torque sensing bb. I run my bike in motorcycle mode the whole time at the moment. The gear sensor adaptation is what I need for realistic PAS riding, but I'd prefer the torque sensor over that any day. I can't stop pedaling to change gears (to trip the PAS sensor for motor cut-off), not intuitive at all, coming from the non-motor cycling world. Without the gear sensor, that's what I would have to do, and it's not going to work for me.
There are two types of people in this world.

1. Those who can extrapolate from missing information.

SwampDonkey   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by SwampDonkey » Sep 26 2019 3:40am

Does anyone have one of these AND a mini cyclone? They're essentially the same size and technology. It would be nice to compare motors, gears, noise, performance, etc.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by aCeMadMod » Sep 26 2019 3:47am

Hi you asking for alot poted vs unpoted. Motors

I am no pro i would take unpoted motor . I can mod it


Best of luck

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » Sep 26 2019 8:46am

hypertoric_amplituhedron wrote:
Sep 15 2019 11:15am
Wow, I like the new kit in all black, with the torque sensing bb. I run my bike in motorcycle mode the whole time at the moment. The gear sensor adaptation is what I need for realistic PAS riding, but I'd prefer the torque sensor over that any day. I can't stop pedaling to change gears (to trip the PAS sensor for motor cut-off), not intuitive at all, coming from the non-motor cycling world. Without the gear sensor, that's what I would have to do, and it's not going to work for me.
Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out how to change gears on mine without crunching.... I guess slow down pedaling enough so that the PAS stops? It is strange...

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by SwampDonkey » Sep 26 2019 3:14pm

aCeMadMod wrote:
Sep 26 2019 3:47am
Hi you asking for alot poted vs unpoted. Motors

I am no pro i would take unpoted motor . I can mod it


Best of luck
Potted motors can run much cooler. Typically motors are potted wit high thermally conductive epoxy. I KNOW people are going to try running 10,000W through these poor things. Im one of them lol. We're going to see how they hold up compared to cyclones and even the God of mid drives, the Ascent.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » Sep 27 2019 2:54pm

SwampDonkey wrote:
Sep 26 2019 3:14pm
aCeMadMod wrote:
Sep 26 2019 3:47am
Hi you asking for alot poted vs unpoted. Motors

I am no pro i would take unpoted motor . I can mod it


Best of luck
Potted motors can run much cooler. Typically motors are potted wit high thermally conductive epoxy. I KNOW people are going to try running 10,000W through these poor things. Im one of them lol. We're going to see how they hold up compared to cyclones and even the God of mid drives, the Ascent.
Tony ran 8-9 kW peaks through his just fine... crazy.

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Sep 27 2019 3:24pm

Potted is much better, not only because it conducts heat but keeps the windings from being physically damaged.

There may be another ASI file for these motors soon, which is good news.

Tommm   10 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Sep 27 2019 4:07pm

SwampDonkey wrote:
Sep 26 2019 3:14pm
Potted motors can run much cooler. Typically motors are potted wit high thermally conductive epoxy. I KNOW people are going to try running 10,000W through these poor things. Im one of them lol. We're going to see how they hold up compared to cyclones and even the God of mid drives, the Ascent.
Once cyc work the kinks out, the Ascent will be the choir boy of mid drives, not the god. Loud, expensive, low voltage, incredibly hard on drivetrain, outdated. I wouldn't buy it if they were the same price.

knurf   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Sep 27 2019 4:24pm

Once cyc work the kinks out, the Ascent will be the choir boy of mid drives, not the god. Loud, expensive, low voltage, incredibly hard on drivetrain, outdated. I wouldn't buy it if they were the same price.
I feel this is the case already (mixed feelings about this..), this motor handles heat in an entirely different league than my Tangent drives. It's also a bit less noisy. Tangent support and further future seems a bit uncertain, to say at least, so this is the new king in my book. Remains to be seen how easy replacement parts are to get by, thinking mainly about freewheels and such.

Switching out the controller and display to something else (the same as in a Tangent setup, or a phaserunner) will make it a superior kit all together. Just wish someone could tell me more about the temp sensor they've put in it.

Also locktite those case screws, mine's already unscrewed itself and small amount of oil has trickled out on the top (case still firmly together). There can also occur some condensation on the inside of the glass.

Tommm   10 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Sep 27 2019 4:50pm

knurf wrote:
Sep 27 2019 4:24pm
Also locktite those case screws, mine's already unscrewed itself and small amount of oil has trickled out on the top (case still firmly together). There can also occur some condensation on the inside of the glass.
The problem with tightening it is you might crack the glass overdoing it. They now include full alu side plates for free. I imagine that would deal way better against moisture.

knurf   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Sep 27 2019 5:22pm

The problem with tightening it is you might crack the glass overdoing it. They now include full alu side plates for free. I imagine that would deal way better against moisture.
Yeah definitely shouldn't torque those too hard. I was referring to the ones on the opposite side, drive side.

n2mb   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » Sep 27 2019 7:16pm

Has anyone gotten the throttle to work well on the stock 14s controller? It is terrible, even with the latest firmware. Super slow and when you hit the throttle from a stop, the motor oscillates and then shuts down. On PAS it is fine. I can't understand why a simple throttle control could be so hard! It's unbelievable.

Also, has anyone fixed the chain ring wobble? I tried tightening the crank, but it still wobbles when you pedal or freewheel the pedals.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Sep 27 2019 7:24pm

I fixed my throttle by using a HV160 on 12S. Domino > CAv3 > HV160. Very reliable instant power no oscillation. Sensorless so you need to be in the right gear to start. It does about 2.5kw and has shittons of torque. Sorry, I do not have solution for the stock controller, which looks like it may kind of suck.

For the chain ring I fixed my wobble by tightening everything, but do note that the chainrings are easily bent. Maybe it's wobbling because your rings aren't true?

knurf   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Sep 28 2019 2:10am

n2mb wrote:
Sep 27 2019 7:16pm
Has anyone gotten the throttle to work well on the stock 14s controller? It is terrible, even with the latest firmware. Super slow and when you hit the throttle from a stop, the motor oscillates and then shuts down. On PAS it is fine. I can't understand why a simple throttle control could be so hard! It's unbelievable.

Also, has anyone fixed the chain ring wobble? I tried tightening the crank, but it still wobbles when you pedal or freewheel the pedals.
What kind of battery (and limits) do you feed it? For me it seems to oscillate more when the battery struggles to deliver enough current, and lower gears, higher rpm tend to behave a little better in that case. The controller also seems pretty bad at dialing back power when voltage is lower (this is something the CA does very well) and my BMS sometimes shut down due to single cell low when I push it.

My chainring also wobbles very slightly but its barely noticable (a common problem for all these setups, Tangent included, as far as I have seen). I just keep an eye on it, so it doesn't get any worse.

aCeMadMod   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by aCeMadMod » Sep 28 2019 2:57am

It seem alot of Es to me most only cares about price.

I crazy i dont care Dont about the price . only it works. Modable

Whiss you luck

sandyhalo   1 µW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by sandyhalo » Sep 28 2019 9:12am

Looks like a lightweight mid-motor, can 3000w be achieved?

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Sep 28 2019 9:49am

sandyhalo wrote:
Sep 28 2019 9:12am
Looks like a lightweight mid-motor, can 3000w be achieved?
3000w is peanuts, but as the name implies, yes.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » Sep 28 2019 2:47pm

knurf wrote:
Sep 28 2019 2:10am
n2mb wrote:
Sep 27 2019 7:16pm
Has anyone gotten the throttle to work well on the stock 14s controller? It is terrible, even with the latest firmware. Super slow and when you hit the throttle from a stop, the motor oscillates and then shuts down. On PAS it is fine. I can't understand why a simple throttle control could be so hard! It's unbelievable.

Also, has anyone fixed the chain ring wobble? I tried tightening the crank, but it still wobbles when you pedal or freewheel the pedals.
What kind of battery (and limits) do you feed it? For me it seems to oscillate more when the battery struggles to deliver enough current, and lower gears, higher rpm tend to behave a little better in that case. The controller also seems pretty bad at dialing back power when voltage is lower (this is something the CA does very well) and my BMS sometimes shut down due to single cell low when I push it.

My chainring also wobbles very slightly but its barely noticable (a common problem for all these setups, Tangent included, as far as I have seen). I just keep an eye on it, so it doesn't get any worse.
Good point. I'm using a 14s4p 30q battery. Luna wolf. Should be good for 80A peak.

It doesn't oscillate when using PAS, with the same hard start. Only on throttle...

knurf   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Sep 28 2019 3:19pm

n2mb wrote:
Sep 28 2019 2:47pm
knurf wrote:
Sep 28 2019 2:10am
n2mb wrote:
Sep 27 2019 7:16pm
Has anyone gotten the throttle to work well on the stock 14s controller? It is terrible, even with the latest firmware. Super slow and when you hit the throttle from a stop, the motor oscillates and then shuts down. On PAS it is fine. I can't understand why a simple throttle control could be so hard! It's unbelievable.

Also, has anyone fixed the chain ring wobble? I tried tightening the crank, but it still wobbles when you pedal or freewheel the pedals.
What kind of battery (and limits) do you feed it? For me it seems to oscillate more when the battery struggles to deliver enough current, and lower gears, higher rpm tend to behave a little better in that case. The controller also seems pretty bad at dialing back power when voltage is lower (this is something the CA does very well) and my BMS sometimes shut down due to single cell low when I push it.

My chainring also wobbles very slightly but its barely noticable (a common problem for all these setups, Tangent included, as far as I have seen). I just keep an eye on it, so it doesn't get any worse.
Good point. I'm using a 14s4p 30q battery. Luna wolf. Should be good for 80A peak.

It doesn't oscillate when using PAS, with the same hard start. Only on throttle...
Hm well I haven't tried PAS, but I know a 30q 4p battery will have to struggle to deliver 2000w if below 50-75% SoC. Try running lower gears, let it rev more, see if it does anything to help.

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