Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Tom   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 357
Joined: Aug 02 2007 5:31pm

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Tom » Jul 05 2019 3:59pm

Eddy Current wrote:
Jul 05 2019 2:27pm
Do you think Luna is going to sell their improved M600 engine kit?
If you are referring to the steel gears, as of February Bafang reportedly switched to a steel gear:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=100777#p1473965

FLX is selling the M600 "2.0". I assume "2.0" is the version with steel gears but you may want to confirm with FLX:

https://flx.bike/collections/components ... r-dz-multi

Eddy Current   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 37
Joined: May 01 2019 10:35am

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Eddy Current » Jul 05 2019 9:43pm

Tom wrote:
Jul 05 2019 3:59pm
Eddy Current wrote:
Jul 05 2019 2:27pm
Do you think Luna is going to sell their improved M600 engine kit?
If you are referring to the steel gears, as of February Bafang reportedly switched to a steel gear:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=100777#p1473965

FLX is selling the M600 "2.0". I assume "2.0" is the version with steel gears but you may want to confirm with FLX:

https://flx.bike/collections/components ... r-dz-multi
The second link is what I’m talking about

But Luna tuning is the win win hope they sell the unit among sensors controllers alone so we can mount in other frames. I think they pick the ugliest frame of all and it’s 27.5 maybe mores frames including 29ers will be released by some Chinese brand in the future. This Bafang 600 is going to give a lot of game over next years

Thanks Tom

User avatar
Kepler   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3261
Joined: Nov 08 2009 9:22pm
Location: Eastern suburbs Melbourne Australia

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Kepler » Jul 24 2019 1:11am

I am just in the process of figuring out what parts I need for this bike. Plan is just buy the frame and M600 from Dengfu.

Just wondering about the rear shock. I presume you would need to go with a 210mm long shock if you want the full 150mm travel out of the bike.

Any reason for going with the 200mm shock on this bike?

Battery wise, I plan to do a split battery using HG2 20A cells. So 2 x 13S2P packs. Will just use one pack when I want to keep bike as light as possible and parallel the packs for when I am doing a longer ride.
Current Rides

Lightest true ebike on the planet: ON ROAD viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74269
eBoost on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eboost/200306283342024/

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Jul 26 2019 7:21pm

Awesome ride today up to Harris Lake. Mostly double track dirt and boulder creek bed but some nice single track into Harris Lake at the end. Photo here shows the view from the 1900 ft vertical mark so it was an 1800 Vertical Climb. Only seemed to use about 20% of the full charge on the trip up but who knows how accurate the percentage read out is on the dash board. The view in the photo is looking back towards Texada and Vancouver Island and the community of Garden Bay on the Sunshine Coast of BC were I live.
view.jpg
view.jpg (375.83 KiB) Viewed 3009 times
The bike is now at 950 KM on it's odometer and still working really well. Riding up the creek bed to get to this location the throttle was a must have with all the pedal strike to the boulders and step ups you would run into if you did not have a throttle on board. I have rode this trail on my gas dirt bike several times and its a tricky ride, I was impressed how well the lower powered M600 worked on this trail. I think a real key to this drive is the motor is in its happy zone with the 28-1 gear reducion so things dont heat up and you can catch up with the pedals as well for helping out here and there with the human power. I am still running the plastic drive gear on the M600 but I plan to upgrade to the steel drive gear once parts are available.

Comparing this bike to my 65lb HD1000 hardtail fat tire for the climb up was no comparision at all. Even with the fat tire having the 1500 watts I felt this M600 bike climbed just as well or better because it handles so much better meaning you can roll over stuff and keep moving at a nice slow and steady pace. Loving this bike.........:) I would buy this from Luna in a heatbeat if I was at this time shopping for a new bike .......wayne
Last edited by waynebergman on Jul 26 2019 9:50pm, edited 2 times in total.

Tom   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 357
Joined: Aug 02 2007 5:31pm

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Tom » Jul 26 2019 7:41pm

Good to hear Wayne. It's a shame Luna won't offer throttle with the ludi controller. Obviously you find throttle useful in some scenarios. Would you have any concerns with the 12-speed cassette that Luna is pairing with this bike?

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Jul 26 2019 9:50pm

Tom, the cassatte that Luna is offering will be fine with the stock power. Their battery packs are peppy so I doubt you would see much voltage sag during a ride runing the lower power option as well so if it was me I would settle on the stock power level with the peppy battery pack Luna is offering. Once you get into the 2000 watt option it will be more maintenance that is for sure. Depends on rider weight and the type of riding you want to do however.

For me I am at the sweet spot for single track fun at the stock power outputs, super climbing and agility on this bike and very low maintenance. My watt meter reads peak of 850 watts and its all you need in my opinioin, after all these are bicycles. If you run 2000 watts and go bouncing up a bumpy trail at speed with a working throttle and have it pinned you will most likely have a mechanical of some kind. Just my opinion however. Hope this helps......wayne

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Jul 31 2019 6:35pm

Screen Shot 2019-07-31 at 4.21.31 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-07-31 at 4.21.31 PM.jpg (204.35 KiB) Viewed 2897 times
Just a reminder to anyone giving a new dengfu frame the once over before riding it. Lock tite all your machine screws and fasteners. I thought I did this but several of the fasteners are working there way loose. The Machine Screw in the photo had worked its way loose and both the male and female threads got very close to being wrecked with the rear shock being anchored to this assembly. I cleaned them up with the tap and die set and then locktited them in place so lucky I found it working its way loose in time.

Gonadman2   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug 11 2019 7:41pm

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Gonadman2 » Aug 11 2019 7:49pm

Hi Wayne,

I've read your thread several times and have placed an order for E09 Frame, M600 and Dengfu supplied battery based on what I've learned. I have a donor bike supplying some parts and will pick up the rest locally. I had a couple of questions about the frame and motor that you might be able to answer.

Is the wheel size programmable? I'm looking to use this a commuter during the week and a fun machine on the weekends. I'll have two sets of wheels for this purpose, however I want to pull as much speed out of this thing during the week as possible and 45km/h might not cut it. Was hoping that you can select a smaller wheel size (20"?) from the Bafang display somehow? Alternatively I could modify the speed sensor - do you know where this is located?

I know your bike came assembled - do you know what model headset it came with? As I ordered a frame only I'm going to have to try and source a headset as well I feel.

Thanks again for this thread.

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Aug 12 2019 12:04am

Hi Gonadman2
There is no way to program things with the m600 that comes from dengfu in its stock configuration that dengfu will supply it in. Luna has of course offered custom controllers etc so they have a way of juicing these bikes up and I feel they will be the go to place for support and parts but if we dont buy it from them I wouldn't blame them for not helping us. At this point with LUna offering these bikes and at such a good price I feel you are making a mistake buying from Dengfu but suite yourself. Regarding the headset I would double check with dengfu to make sure you get the right specs.
I am very happy with the bike but I only got it from dengfu direct as at the time of my purchase I had no choice, I was very early to the party. Now that LUna is offering this I would buy from them. Dengfu is going to be a pain to deal with, as I have stated before.

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Aug 12 2019 12:28am

HI Kepler, sorry I just saw your post now sorry I missed it I will try now to reply....
Regarding the 200 and the 210 mm shock options I am not real sure how much extra travel the 210 will give you.I can not remember on my shock if I have the 200 or the 210 option. I chose to rotate the flip flop shock mounts to the 200 position for the mounting of the shock pin as it gave me more ground clearance. Maybe I have I have even mounted my 210mm shock to the 200 position on the flip flop assembly, not sure. Like I say I dont even know if I have the 200 or the 210 shock. I think I ordered the 210 but never really checked, does it say on the shock body somewhere if its a 200 or a 210?

Hope this helps, glad to see you have got this bike , I see your thread now viewtopic.php?f=28&t=101715&p=1487863#p1487863 so glad you are on board. I have a lot of respect for your builds and stuff you have done over the years. I will follow your thread with great interest. ......wayne

Gonadman2   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug 11 2019 7:41pm

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Gonadman2 » Aug 12 2019 4:13am

waynebergman wrote:
Aug 12 2019 12:04am
Hi Gonadman2
There is no way to program things with the m600 that comes from dengfu in its stock configuration that dengfu will supply it in. Luna has of course offered custom controllers etc so they have a way of juicing these bikes up and I feel they will be the go to place for support and parts but if we dont buy it from them I wouldn't blame them for not helping us. At this point with LUna offering these bikes and at such a good price I feel you are making a mistake buying from Dengfu but suite yourself. Regarding the headset I would double check with dengfu to make sure you get the right specs.
I am very happy with the bike but I only got it from dengfu direct as at the time of my purchase I had no choice, I was very early to the party. Now that LUna is offering this I would buy from them. Dengfu is going to be a pain to deal with, as I have stated before.
Thanks for the reply!

I went with the Dengfu option as they're much closer to me (in Australia) and I've dealt with them before so I know what I'm in for. I only wanted the Frame/Motor/Battery option as well and it seemed easier than trying to go through Luna. Also Luna are currently sold out and it's something I really want to do now rather than later as my commutes are really starting to bother me as the weather is starting to warm down under.

I did receive a response from Dengfu regarding the headset, seems it is included. I saw viewtopic.php?f=28&t=94960&start=50#p1399942post from surfingjeff which gives me some hope. I'm sure I'll be able to get some speed out of this thing either through programming becoming available, or modifying the sensor.

User avatar
Kepler   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3261
Joined: Nov 08 2009 9:22pm
Location: Eastern suburbs Melbourne Australia

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Kepler » Aug 12 2019 4:40am

waynebergman wrote:
Aug 12 2019 12:28am
HI Kepler, sorry I just saw your post now sorry I missed it I will try now to reply....
Regarding the 200 and the 210 mm shock options I am not real sure how much extra travel the 210 will give you.I can not remember on my shock if I have the 200 or the 210 option. I chose to rotate the flip flop shock mounts to the 200 position for the mounting of the shock pin as it gave me more ground clearance. Maybe I have I have even mounted my 210mm shock to the 200 position on the flip flop assembly, not sure. Like I say I dont even know if I have the 200 or the 210 shock. I think I ordered the 210 but never really checked, does it say on the shock body somewhere if its a 200 or a 210?

Hope this helps, glad to see you have got this bike , I see your thread now viewtopic.php?f=28&t=101715&p=1487863#p1487863 so glad you are on board. I have a lot of respect for your builds and stuff you have done over the years. I will follow your thread with great interest. ......wayne
Thanks Wayne. Now I have the frame, I have a much better understanding of the frame's geometry. if you have the flip chip in the high position, only a 200mm shock would fit so you definitely have the 200mm shock. However, it doesn't necessarily mean you have less then 150mm travel as it depends on the stroke length of that shock. Thanks for sharing your experience with this bike. Your cautious approach was helpful with my decision.
Current Rides

Lightest true ebike on the planet: ON ROAD viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74269
eBoost on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eboost/200306283342024/

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Aug 12 2019 10:20am

HI Gonadman2, OK glad to hear you have close shipping from Dengfu. Keep us posted with the progress. Many users will want to reprogram and so far not much out there for help......wayne

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Aug 13 2019 4:49pm

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veRbMnBhHaI[/youtube] link here is another of my thriller bike videos. As you can see I am very good at riding my bike backwards :) Video was just to show the ground clearance on this bike going over a small roll over. I know for a fact the HD1000 would not clear that roll over with out bottoming the motor on the little crest of that slop.

macros   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Aug 13 2019 8:40pm

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by macros » Aug 13 2019 8:43pm

Hi Wayne, thanks for keeping this thread open and answering so many questions about your build! Quick question: why do you and so many others seem so excited about Luna's new m600 build and a bit dismissive of the FLX builds that are cheaper and seem to have better components? Their trail bike and step-through both seem like solid builds at first glance, but wondering if there's something I'm missing. Thanks!

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Aug 13 2019 9:32pm

Hi Macros
Sorry Macros I don't mean to sound like a snob or on some kind of a high horse but no one that is serious about making a trail bike would EVER EVER put a kick stand on their bikes. The FLX just plain looks dorky and from what I can see from the photos they are not a serious trail bike. Fine for picking up a quart of milk for store runs or commuting but those bikes are just not the real deal. The components on the Luna stuff is quality, dropper post etc. Not sure if I am answering your question but the FLX just looks like a dog .........wayne

Tom   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 357
Joined: Aug 02 2007 5:31pm

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Tom » Aug 13 2019 10:24pm

With throttle and 650WH battery the FLX trail is 2,654 shipped. The X-1 pre-order was $3,650 shipped. Even if Luna hikes the price another $500 the upgrade in frame, suspension, components, etc. is worth investing the extra money IMO. FWIW, latest from Luna is X-1 pre-orders won't ship until September. I'm OK with that - it will be worth the wait.

macros   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Aug 13 2019 8:40pm

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by macros » Aug 13 2019 11:36pm

Thanks Tom and Wayne! That's solid advice, and I definitely agree re: the actual seriousness of the bike for the trail. Since I'm mostly considering buying a bike as a fast commuter, is there anything I should be leery of with the FLX? I agree it looks a bit dorky, but I'm not sure it's worth the extra $1000+ to get a sleek looking X-1...

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Aug 14 2019 10:19am

HI Macros
I guess that bike will work OK for you and we all have a limit as to what we are willing to spend on a bike. A few things to consider especially with an e-bike however is all the components will be talking to you when they are out of adjustment especially like shifting. With e-power on a bike its so nice to have quality gearing and shifting not to mention suspension and braking. Anything but good quality components will eventually be a dissapointment. Once you buy into a bike like the one you are looking at its no use upgrading any of the components because buying individually replacement upgrades will cost you and arm and a leg and the next week link will be just around the corner. Its a hard pill to swallow but a decent e-bike costs more than many of us would like to spend but my advise is buy a good one or dont buy at all............wayne

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Aug 14 2019 1:52pm

Thought I would throw an idea out there for those maybe wanting to run a peppier pack on this platform without a different controller with the objective of more speed and power. For me I am fine with the 45km max speed, I feel its just perfect for the riding I do. But lets say you were going to try a 52 v pack you would easy and quickly exceed the 45km speed limit even at 20 amps on the stock controller (and I am not saying 52v is a good idea on the stock controller who knows at this point). Lets say you had a way of only getting the signal from the wheel mounted magnet to sensor on the chain stay only half of the time or 1/3rd of the time or what ever, this would in effect let you go as fast as the battery would allow with the pepped up voltage.

I had originally thought of some kind of mechanical spinning sheild on the chain stay that would sporatically interupt the magnets signal for rotational input. A friend of mine has a better idea I think that would work electricaly, he is much smarter than me for sure. Anyways here is his idea in case anyone thinks something like this is worth getting around Bafangs lock up on the controller settings. ....

My buddies input here......To do it electronically --- take an old speedo cable, cutting off the Hall sensor and replacing it with a circuit (555 timer etc) that generates a pulse at whatever interval is desired. The computer would see a constant speed then, so not sure if it would mess up the controller, but I doubt it. On my controller anyway it just has to see a pulse on the speedo input every few seconds so as not to register a fault and shut down.

OK, its me again......So if the above worked you could most likely get an easy 30 mph top speed out of this bike with a fresh peppy 52 v pack and stock controller. The milage readings etc would be all out of wach but who cares. Also not sure if the controller would object to the extra voltage. Luna has still gone with the 48 volt pack but more amps through there own Luna branded controllers so maybe there is a reason for this. Anyways food for thought........wayne

Animalector   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 931
Joined: Mar 17 2012 4:50pm
Location: Mareeba - Queensland

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Animalector » Aug 14 2019 11:03pm

I've been thinking about this as well, I would recommend a small Atmel or Microchip Microcontroller. It gives more flexibility, and you could do things like 0-45km/h present normal range to the controller, above 45km/h present half speed. That way you still get useful information from the speedo..

Still a very small device (8pins) and relatively easy to program.

Something to think about

Andy

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Aug 29 2019 6:40pm

Big troubles for intalling the new tires I bought. Super difficult to break the beads for tire removal on the original set. First go around I opened the tire up with sizzors and then cut the kevelar beads with a knife. Finally got the new tires on with the stans no tube stems and stans sealant but had trouble with leaks at the valve stem to decided to go with tubes after all. I will slime them up when riding in the dessert this winter but yikes the tubes alone weight in at 13 oz a piece. So anyways when I decided to pull of the first tire to go back to a tubed system I realized my beads had seated, so back to square one in trying to getting them off. I did not want to cut them off like the first go around as the tire are new. Made up the two pieces of wood shown in the photos, the second to last photo shows breaking the bead with this unit the last photo of the store bought solution is I guess what the pros use. I will have to put one of those in my repair trailer as well for trail side fix ups :)

These Dengfu CF rims and the combination of the tires I have are not that user friendly for take off and replacement that is for sure.
Screen Shot 2019-08-27 at 9.14.40 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-08-27 at 9.14.40 PM.jpg (228.2 KiB) Viewed 2371 times
Screen Shot 2019-08-27 at 9.14.56 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-08-27 at 9.14.56 PM.jpg (105.79 KiB) Viewed 2371 times
Screen Shot 2019-08-29 at 4.23.34 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-08-29 at 4.23.34 PM.jpg (189.54 KiB) Viewed 2371 times
Screen Shot 2019-08-29 at 4.22.58 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-08-29 at 4.22.58 PM.jpg (190.24 KiB) Viewed 2371 times
Screen Shot 2019-08-29 at 4.23.12 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-08-29 at 4.23.12 PM.jpg (120.38 KiB) Viewed 2371 times
Screen Shot 2019-08-29 at 7.46.33 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-08-29 at 7.46.33 PM.jpg (93.14 KiB) Viewed 2354 times

User avatar
Kepler   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3261
Joined: Nov 08 2009 9:22pm
Location: Eastern suburbs Melbourne Australia

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Kepler » Aug 31 2019 3:30am

I couldn't believe how heavy those 27.5" tube were. Kind of defeated purpose of having carbon rims in the first place. I will definitely stick with tubeless.

Thanks for the heads up on these rims. At least I know what to expect.
Current Rides

Lightest true ebike on the planet: ON ROAD viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74269
eBoost on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eboost/200306283342024/

Eddy Current   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 37
Joined: May 01 2019 10:35am

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Eddy Current » Sep 17 2019 2:39pm

Wayne i think i speak in the name of many mates when I said we want more pics of your bike 8)

User avatar
waynebergman   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 971
Joined: May 07 2011 4:20pm
Location: Pender Harbour British Columbia Canada

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 17 2019 3:34pm

Thanks for the encouragement Eddy. I think once the flood gates open from the Luna shipments for the North American market you will get sick of Dengfu M600 photos. For myself I am looking forward to hearing and seeing how others do with the Luna mods. Also Kepler has a really nice Dungfu / M600 that is way nicer than mine. Check it out here if you have not already done so........ viewtopic.php?f=28&t=101715&p=1487863#p1487863 ....wayne

Post Reply