Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Tom » Sep 17 2019 3:38pm

My Luna X1 finally shipped today. Can't wait!

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 17 2019 3:53pm

Tom this is such good news. Glad to hear this. I would be great to get some more threads going on this drive and in particular relating to the controllers, battery packs etc that Luna is fitting to these bikes. It might be of more use to others thinking of purchasing one of these bikes to have a separate thread going for bikes bought from Luna as those bikes will be different in many ways than mine because of different drive gear, controller, battery pack, and for that matter throttle with out the com/port. In some ways my thread here is clogged up with weird stuff from trying communicate with "DUNG-fu" :) that will take away from usefull info on the drive itself and the bikes in there current form. I would hope for a Luna X1 thread - maybe you can start one..........wayne

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Eddy Current » Sep 17 2019 7:41pm

waynebergman wrote:
Sep 17 2019 3:34pm
Thanks for the encouragement Eddy. I think once the flood gates open from the Luna shipments for the North American market you will get sick of Dengfu M600 photos. For myself I am looking forward to hearing and seeing how others do with the Luna mods. Also Kepler has a really nice Dungfu / M600 that is way nicer than mine. Check it out here if you have not already done so........ viewtopic.php?f=28&t=101715&p=1487863#p1487863 ....wayne
Thanks to you Wayne

You know every time I see this thread getting stuck I feel like “time for a bump” hehehe it always comes with some like:
Tom wrote:
Sep 17 2019 3:38pm
My Luna X1 finally shipped today. Can't wait!
Wich are not good news ... this is GREAT news!

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Twistgripper » Sep 21 2019 3:01pm

I'm seriously thinking of pulling the trigger on this one.

If I wanted to do a budget build based on this frame, could i do a lot better on price vs Luna X1? Luna is sold out ATM anyways.

I also might consider bringing in 5 or 10 units into Canada if the discount is steep enough and selling the remaining units as a sideline gig.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 21 2019 7:14pm

Hi twistgripper, If I were you I would wait till LUna has stock and order it all put together and ready to roll. Going budget based on frame and motor can get pricey buying one part at a time unless you already have all the components at hand in your spare parts pile. At 3500 US dollars the early to the party buyers got a super deal as they were taking a chance sort of. Even now if the price is going to be 4200 USA or what ever its still going to be hard to beat. Hey its winter here pretty soon anyways, I would say wait for a spring delivery and get the bike all put together and ready to roll. This being said Kepler did an awesome job on his but he built his pack from scratch, tinkered wtih wheel sizing, went for a high end suspension etc so it made sense to get the frame and motor for him but if you say you are looking for a budget build just buy from Luna in my opinion. Too bad you missed the early killer deal.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by ilegal » Sep 22 2019 1:23am

Besides Dengfu won´t sell you the frame if you´re from USA or Canada, I guess they made an agreement with Luna.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Tom » Sep 24 2019 6:46pm

waynebergman wrote:
Nov 29 2018 6:59pm
HI Tom
I dont have access to a accurate scale now as I am in Arizona. I calculated before I think that the bike will weigh in just a little under 50lbs with the 13s4p pack. I would be surprised if its more than 50lbs.
Hey Wayne, I'll be creating a separate thread for the Luna X1 but was curious if you ever got around weighing your bike with the battery. I was a little bummed after putting my X1 on the scale to see it is slightly over 55 lbs! I'll have to pull out my other bathroom scale just to make sure.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Kepler » Sep 24 2019 8:06pm

The frame is around 6lb which is pretty good in comparison to other ebike frames. Best way to reduce weight on this bike is going tubeless. Another decent chunk of weight will be in the cassette. Entry level 11/ 50 cassettes are heavy. Going tubeless and putting on a light weight cassette will save you 2 1/2 lb. Not sure if the X1 has carbon rims

I believe the Levo is 55lb also.
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 24 2019 8:42pm

HI Tom, glad you got your bike. My bike is or was 50lbs with battery but now I am running heavy thick DH style tubes so my weight is creeping up there (my tubes are 13 oz a piece). 55lb's is still light enough in my books, after all we have a motor and on downhills the weight actually feels good to me. As Kepler says ditching the tubes will be the easiest way to lower weight. Also my bike has the CF rims , not sure how much difference that makes. Keep us posted on how the bike works for you and feel free to leave a link to your thread on this thread so other M600 shoppers can easily find info on your bike.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Tom » Sep 25 2019 12:03pm

Thanks guys. I emailed Luna and they said the under 50 pound spec came from putting their X1 on the shop scale. Apparently it weighed in at 49 pounds but that doesn't make sense given Wayne's build was around 50 pounds with tubeless CF rims. I asked if they could weigh it again. If anyone is looking for it, here's my X1 thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=102519

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 26 2019 1:06pm

OK, I just re weighed the bike with the new tubes. Even though the new tubes are heavy the bike did originally come with tubes so I guess the difference is not a bad as I first thought. Even with 13oz tubes I am weighing in at just under 51lbs , and actually closer to 50lb. The photo atttached here shows the reading after I stepped off the scale while carrying the bike for the weigh in. My weight complete with work boots and wet diapers was 137lb's on the button. Photo shows weight reading from myself and bike complete with pedals and dirt from last ride. :)
Screen Shot 2019-09-26 at 10.58.19 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-09-26 at 10.58.19 AM.jpg (171.03 KiB) Viewed 2290 times

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Bigwheel » Sep 26 2019 1:23pm

137lbs.! Wayne you need some Poutine.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Kepler » Sep 26 2019 7:37pm

Thanks for confirming the weight Wayne. Fits in with my 46 lb build setup tubeless and 4lb battery.
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Eddy Current » Sep 27 2019 9:45am

Kepler wrote:
Sep 26 2019 7:37pm
Thanks for confirming the weight Wayne. Fits in with my 46 lb build setup tubeless and 4lb battery.
Whats the plan to achieve that? Kashima fork? Xc stuff? Whatever ... tell us!!! :o

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 27 2019 9:48am

HI Eddy, Kepler has documented it all here regarding how he stipped off the weight viewtopic.php?f=28&t=101715&p=1487863#p1487863 its a great thread

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Eddy Current » Sep 27 2019 11:39am

waynebergman wrote:
Sep 27 2019 9:48am
HI Eddy, Kepler has documented it all here regarding how he stipped off the weight viewtopic.php?f=28&t=101715&p=1487863#p1487863 its a great thread
Thanks Wayne very kind

Regards

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Luna Cycle X1 unboxing and sound comparison with an Ultra

Post by robocam » Oct 04 2019 7:30am

Luna Cycle X1 unboxing and sound comparison with an Ultra.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7-VXKLkwZ0&lc

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by tsellers » Oct 10 2019 5:43pm

I know it was discussed in a few of the posts in this thread, but I may have missed if there was a definitive answer with respect to the ability to safely use 52V with the M600 V2.0?
Regards, John

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by robocam » Oct 10 2019 6:39pm

Worked for me :) https://youtu.be/X2IPtda_LFo
tsellers wrote:
Oct 10 2019 5:43pm
I know it was discussed in a few of the posts in this thread, but I may have missed if there was a definitive answer with respect to the ability to safely use 52V with the M600 V2.0?

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Oct 10 2019 7:03pm

HI John
I tried using a 52v pack on mine but I was careful to deplete it to a resting voltage of a fully charged 48 volt pack before using. I did not have the stock battery supplied to me at the time of the bikes arrival and only had a 52 volt pack in my spare parts drawer so this is what I used to test the bike out before the battery arrived. All documented earlier in this thread. In the early days no one could say for sure if it was safe to run 58.8 volts, Bafang told me not to do it, I do remember this.

Its great to hear that Robocam got his to work with a 52 volt system but not sure if a minute or two of testing is really going to tell us how that kind of extra voltage will effect the controller. I look forward to hearing from those that will push the system with the extra juice as surely it wont be long and people will be tinkering with this bike from its stock configuration. For me - as I have bought mine from Dengfu I am reluctant to do anything that will require me to ask for replacement parts as I am not confident they will help me out. My best guess is someone that has bought perhaps a Luna offering may hot rod it with the 52 volts, the Luna warranty will not be good but atleast the user most likely will be able to buy replacement parts from LUna but I am not sure.

I am most interested in why LUna choose to go with the 48 volt system, there must have be a reason for it. I guess the 52 volt system alone would not do much compared to the controller mods that LUna made for the lUdi mode but in my opion a 52 volt system with a peppy pack giving not much voltage sag may have been enough to hot rod the bike just enough. Just my opinion but time will tell. Its exciting for me now to see other people with this bike on the road and trail. Its been close to a year now with myself being one of the only users so its nice to have a others joing in on the party. Still thinking this bike will catch on in a big way.
Last edited by waynebergman on Oct 13 2019 11:43pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by tsellers » Oct 10 2019 7:20pm

Thanks Wayne,

I see you reside where some of my former co-workers from BNP have retired to!

I am ordering a Frey M600 package. They have agreed to ship it with an empty battery case that I can populate myself. I have about 120 LG M50 21700 cells enroute, half of which are to build a battery for a portable repeater I'm working on. I will have enough to complete the battery for the bike as well, and I can build it out at 13S or 14S. Obviously, the 14S (52V) option would be preferable. As I need to tell our battery supplier which BMS's to include with the order, it would be best for me to decide now which build I plan to do. I'm tempted to build the 14S, and then perhaps charge it with a 48V charger, which I already have on hand. Then in order to balance the cells from time to time, I could give it a full charge from a 52V charger, and, if I still have concerns about the higher voltage on the full charge, perhaps run it down before mounting on the M600, similar to what I think you did.

Of course perhaps I should just build the pack to 48V and be done with it. That would also have the advantage to me of not having to buy a charger because I already have a 48V charger anyway. At the moment I am riding a Giant Full-e, and I think that the M600 would probably satisfy my wishes even at 48V.
Regards, John

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by robocam » Oct 10 2019 7:38pm

I'm comfortable with 52V because almost every 48V system I've ever owned (GNG, Cyclone, Bafang), I've run them at 52V, including my BBSHD, which we all know can handle 52V, so I think it's safe to assume Bafang hasn't changed anything in their controllers that would make running a 52V battery a problem, and 52V is a relatively small increase over 48V.

If you charge a 52V battery to a 48V battery voltage, it won't hold as much energy as a fully charged 48V battery.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Kepler » Oct 10 2019 7:48pm

I would recommend sticking with 13S 48V. Although I would be surprised if 14S 52V would do any damage to the drive, you could loose the very nice low battery level management built in to the controller and would then need to rely entirely on your battery BMS for battery protection.

BMS low battery voltage protection should be the last line of defense with the motor controller doing the first line of battery protection.

The M600 tapers of assist to the equivalent of assist level 1 once the battery level is below 15%. This is very handy for giving you just enough assist to get you home. I have pushed my pack to a displayed level of 5%. Measuring the the battery's remaining voltage at this point showed 44.5V which is about perfect as a safe minimum voltage.

If you run 14S and discharge to the same level, at cell level the voltage will be close to their safe minimum when you hit the controller managed low voltage limit.
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by tsellers » Oct 10 2019 7:53pm

Thanks for the responses!

I think they have me now in the camp that I'll just do the 48V build, I had not considered the aspect of the low battery algorithms as being yet another factor.
Regards, John

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by robocam » Oct 11 2019 7:30am

The low voltage cutoff of a 48V system is fine for a 52V battery. My Ego "generator" uses 52V batteries, and it cuts them off at around 39V, which is what you might find in a 48V system. I know this because I was comparing the Ego with a 48V inverter (links below). That's about 2.8V per cell. I wouldn't worry about it unless it goes lower than 2.5V per cell.

Plus on a bike, toward the end of the battery's capacity, the voltage will sag quickly, so it should trigger the LVC as soon as you try to put down any power.

If I had a choice between 52V or 48V at the same Ah, I'd choose 52V no question about it, but if capacity is affected, I'd choose the one with more Wh because range is more important to me for a drive like this.

https://egopowerplus.com/nexus-portable-power-station/

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07 ... UTF8&psc=1
tsellers wrote:
Oct 10 2019 7:53pm
Thanks for the responses!

I think they have me now in the camp that I'll just do the 48V build, I had not considered the aspect of the low battery algorithms as being yet another factor.

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