Less aggressive Fat Tire options

JRP3

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Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
380
Location
Central NY State
I'm looking for a less aggressive tire choice for a 26x4.5 inch fat bike tire. Currently running Kenda Juggernaut but most of my riding is pavement with occasional packed trail use. 4.5 inch choices seem to be limited and I assume I could also run a 4 inch on these rims. The bike is an M2S AT FS with 750 hub motor
https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/all-terrain-r750-series/products/full-suspension-electric-fat-bike
 
Vee Apache Fatty Slick 26 x 4.5"
Vee Speedster 26 x 3.5"
Arisun Big Smoothy 26 x 4.0"
Origin8 Supercell 26 x 4.0"

That's a funny choice of bike for riding on pavement and the occasional packed trail (multi use path?)
 
That's a funny choice of bike for riding on pavement and the occasional packed trail (multi use path?)
I suppose but I wanted full suspension for the times I do go off road, or jump speed bumps and curbs. I did expect to spend more time on trails but there aren't many within range which turned out to be far less than advertised even with the larger battery.
Of those you listed the Arisun Big Smoothy is kind of what I'm looking for though ideally something a bit more aggressive, maybe something between the Juggernaut and the Smoothy?

Juggernaut.jpg

Smoothy.jpg
 
JRP3 said:
within range which turned out to be far less than advertised even with the larger battery.
Part of that will be the tire pressure; lower pressure (which is usually a reason people use for having fat tires) can eat up range.

Part of it could be speed and pedalling: most of the advertised ranges are not for range at max speed, or range with no pedalling. If they even tested it at all, they probably tested it at minimum assist and maximum pedalling on flat ground, no wind/breeze (or one from behind :lol: ) with high tire pressure and perfect pavement, etc. Unfortunately that's typical; I've yet to see a realistic range figure in an ad or sale page, especially for complete bikes, that also states the exact test conditions they used to get that range.
 
amberwolf said:
Part of that will be the tire pressure; lower pressure (which is usually a reason people use for having fat tires) can eat up range.

Part of it could be speed and pedalling: most of the advertised ranges are not for range at max speed, or range with no pedalling. If they even tested it at all, they probably tested it at minimum assist and maximum pedalling on flat ground, no wind/breeze (or one from behind :lol: ) with high tire pressure and perfect pavement, etc. Unfortunately that's typical; I've yet to see a realistic range figure in an ad or sale page, especially for complete bikes, that also states the exact test conditions they used to get that range.
Yeah I keep pressure on the higher side when I'm on the road, 18-20 psi, mostly use 4-6 out of 9 on the power assist, and almost always pedal, but I have a lot of hills and no regen. Some of the hills require full power assist and full pedal effort to climb, the 750 hub motor is weaker than expected.
 
JRP3 said:
Of those you listed the Arisun Big Smoothy is kind of what I'm looking for though ideally something a bit more aggressive, maybe something between the Juggernaut and the Smoothy?

If your riding conditions are as you describe, then even the Big Smoothy is more tread than you need. Keep in mind that when you're on a surface that's harder than your tire, it's the texture of the surface, not the texture of the tire tread, that matters. Knobs reduce traction and increase rolling resistance when you ride on hard surfaces. So that disappointment you have about your bike's range? Smooth tires will help.

If you're not riding in loose dirt, mud, sand, mashed potatoes, etc., then a knobby tire is both slowing you down and making it more likely you will slip in a turn. For the kind of riding you're talking about, only sandy gutters or wet leaves will give your knobs something worthwhile to do.

That said, if you have a mental hangup about it, the Surly Knard 26 x 4.8" has a lot of smallish knobs rather than a few bigger ones.

surly-26x4.8-knard-fat-bike-tire.jpg
 
Chalo said:
If your riding conditions are as you describe, then even the Big Smoothy is more tread than you need.

I do want some traction for when I do go off road, never know exactly what the conditions will be. I'll probably give the Big Smoothy a try on the rear, if it can get up the the trail from the gorge on my property it should work well enough to get another for the front.
 
I bought some Chinese brand street fat tire that one of the members here in Thailand tried out, my build is still WIP.
https://www.chaoyangtire.com/index.php/pro/pro-details/7/148?type=FAT&name=SANDSTORM
 
gobi said:
I bought some Chinese brand street fat tire that one of the members here in Thailand tried out, my build is still WIP.
https://www.chaoyangtire.com/index.php/pro/pro-details/7/148?type=FAT&name=SANDSTORM
They have some interesting tread patterns. Does the higher TPI number mean a stiffer or thicker tire?
 
amberwolf said:
JRP3 said:
within range which turned out to be far less than advertised even with the larger battery.
Part of that will be the tire pressure; lower pressure (which is usually a reason people use for having fat tires) can eat up range.

Part of it could be speed and pedalling: most of the advertised ranges are not for range at max speed, or range with no pedalling. If they even tested it at all, they probably tested it at minimum assist and maximum pedalling on flat ground, no wind/breeze (or one from behind :lol: ) with high tire pressure and perfect pavement, etc. Unfortunately that's typical; I've yet to see a realistic range figure in an ad or sale page, especially for complete bikes, that also states the exact test conditions they used to get that range.
Not to mention the decreasing range as the battery ages out. I figure I need 25% extra capacity when new to allow for decreasing capacity.
 
JRP3 said:
JRP3 said:
Does the higher TPI number mean a stiffer or thicker tire?

I looked it up and the opposite is true, higher TPI is more thin threads per inch vs fewer thicker threads per inch.
Are you sure TPI always directly correlates to tire sidewall pliability and rolling resistance?
 
99t4 said:
Are you sure TPI always directly correlates to tire sidewall pliability and rolling resistance?
It seems to generally, all things being equal, i.e. 2 tires from the same manufacturer with similar construction methods. But I don't think you could say Tire X from OEM X at 60 TPI is necessarily stiffer than Tire Y from OEM Y at 120 TPI. I'm just learning about this so I could be wrong but that's my impression.
 
99t4 said:
JRP3 said:
JRP3 said:
Does the higher TPI number mean a stiffer or thicker tire?

I looked it up and the opposite is true, higher TPI is more thin threads per inch vs fewer thicker threads per inch.
Are you sure TPI always directly correlates to tire sidewall pliability and rolling resistance?

I think it is like the thread count on a bed sheet, something that is "grandmas" would check out ;)

My riding is mostly on pavement, so I am trying to pick up some low resistance tires for my builds,
For Phat tires, I found the ones above, they have a US dealership in Cali, can't seem to find their tire in US, I bought mine from Italy, talk about a waste of money on shipping.
 
gobi said:
My riding is mostly on pavement, so I am trying to pick up some low resistance tires for my builds,
For Phat tires, I found the ones above, they have a US dealership in Cali, can't seem to find their tire in US, I bought mine from Italy, talk about a waste of money on shipping.

Did you check Ebay? I see them on there.
 
JRP3 said:
gobi said:
My riding is mostly on pavement, so I am trying to pick up some low resistance tires for my builds,
For Phat tires, I found the ones above, they have a US dealership in Cali, can't seem to find their tire in US, I bought mine from Italy, talk about a waste of money on shipping.

Did you check Ebay? I see them on there.

Yeah, I bought it from ebay, the seller is from Italy :D
 
JRP3 said:
gobi said:
Yeah, I bought it from ebay, the seller is from Italy :D

Free shipping from California now https://www.ebay.com/itm/125229947386

Holi mother of bike tires, I paid less than $100 for 3 tires WITH shipping from Italy, what a rip off,
$69 for a bike tire?
I paid $45 last week for a michelin 4ply moto 17 inch tire. OUCH,
[rant off]
 
JRP3 said:
gobi said:
Holi mother of bike tires, I paid less than $100 for 3 tires WITH shipping from Italy, what a rip off,
$69 for a bike tire?
You got 3 fat tires for $100? What size were they? I can't find a single fat tire 26x4 for less than $50 and most are $60+

I was wrong, less 100 without shipping.

3 items
$90.87
Shipping
$36.65
Tax
$7.65
Order total
$135.17

I bought this off ebay,
https://www.ebay.com/usr/ridewill-shop-it
these guys,
 
Got the Arisun tires yesterday and installed them, had no problem going up or down the steep trail on my property and of course they are much smoother and quieter on the road. I was surprised how much stiffer they feel at the same pressure as the Kenda's, more contact area providing more support I guess.
Got the tires here for a good price: https://carsoncitybikeshop.com/tires-arisun-big-smoothy-26x4-0-bk-wire-30/

Found a surprise in one of the Kenda's, don't think I've seen anything like this before.
 

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One downside I'm noticing is on sharp turns at speed on pavement, especially when braking at the same time, the tires resist leaning at a certain point and feel like they are pushing back trying to straighten the bike up. Never felt anything like that before on any bike or motorcycle.
 
JRP3 said:
One downside I'm noticing is on sharp turns at speed on pavement, especially when braking at the same time, the tires resist leaning at a certain point and feel like they are pushing back trying to straighten the bike up. Never felt anything like that before on any bike or motorcycle.

My experience with fat tires is that when they're run at low pressure (which is the reason to have them), they resist steering back up out of a turn, and have to be pushed back up. Fatbike dudes call this "self steering", though I find that name not very descriptive. This tendency can be subdued by adding lots of air pressure, but in that case... why fat tires?
 
Chalo said:
JRP3 said:
One downside I'm noticing is on sharp turns at speed on pavement, especially when braking at the same time, the tires resist leaning at a certain point and feel like they are pushing back trying to straighten the bike up. Never felt anything like that before on any bike or motorcycle.

My experience with fat tires is that when they're run at low pressure (which is the reason to have them), they resist steering back up out of a turn, and have to be pushed back up. Fatbike dudes call this "self steering", though I find that name not very descriptive. This tendency can be subdued by adding lots of air pressure, but in that case... why fat tires?

Fat, slick, low pressure and *supple* tires are indeed very wierd when it comes to handling due to 'camber thrust' and 'camber torque' effects. And indeed, they add considerable 'return to center force', which is actually enough of a problem on motorgp bikes that riders have to 'overlean' very considerably and hang off the bike to keep up from high-siding due to combination of both force.

On a motorcycle you have you have much higher pressure and much higher camber stiffness though.

This tendency (since I don't ride soft stuff on fat bike exclusively) made me sell my carbon fat bike which I had high hopes for. That, and w/o a motor it was considerably slower the for the type of riding I did.
 
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