E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Mihei777   100 µW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Mihei777 » May 05 2020 11:22am

Hi Guys. Chain tensioner set up make worries, i cant understand whats wrong in setup? Tensioner is really out before it gets load. Please see the pics and give comment what can be wrong?
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Joe   1 W

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Joe » May 07 2020 3:03pm

Take a look at page 22.
To me it looks like the other end (long side) of the spring is not in the correct position. The small side end I can see looks correct.
What‘s all that tape doing?
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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by briangv99 » May 07 2020 6:21pm

Joe wrote:
May 07 2020 3:03pm
What‘s all that tape doing?
I'd guess the chain is jumping so much it's there to stop damage to the swingarm

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Joe » May 08 2020 10:10pm

My belt has snapped. I‘m ordering a new one. Probably worn by the old sprocket and the new sprocket had more profile.
I‘m again bikeless.
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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » May 09 2020 5:32am

Joe wrote:
May 08 2020 10:10pm
My belt has snapped. I‘m ordering a new one. Probably worn by the old sprocket and the new sprocket had more profile.
I‘m again bikeless.
That's a shame. Adam asked me to run my old belt on the new sprocket to see how it would go...I guess this is an indication.

Where are you ordering the new belt from?

I feel like maybe these problems could also be solved by a slightly wider belt. Looking at things closely, while it does look tight, I think a 14mm belt could fit. Is this something you already looked at Adam?

Cheers
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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Joe » May 10 2020 12:53am

Hi CD
Adam sent me a link to their shop and I ordered it there.
At the same time I was in contact with optibelt. They have a M8 omega HP belt. (high performance) From the documents on-line. They say 2x as strong. I am asking for a quote.
I‘m never going back to the chain. I‘m staying with the belt.

https://www.optibelt.com/en/products/ru ... -omega-hp/
Download the technical manual. Goto page 15-17.
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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Merlin » May 10 2020 5:38am

Power wise 3kw peak is a joke for the belt.
Can't imagine it's quality related.

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » May 10 2020 7:19am

Thanks Joe. Yes I agree, I want to stick with and make the belt work.

On a ride with Brian today with his chain I was surprised at how quiet overall it was actually. I guess the chain sound was more annoying to myself riding than anything...but also riding along side is not the same as what you hear as a pedestrian when it comes up behind and that I haven't really experienced much.

I'm hoping the steel front sprocket is really enough to solve all our problems, so lets start with that first and see how it goes. That belt looks expensive, but let us know what they quote you.

Cheers
My stuff:
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Cowardlyducks - Videos - Ride videos
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For Sale:
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs - Australia only
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Allex » May 10 2020 9:01am

Go with the carbon belt, thats what we are running, and they are only 12mm, hold 13kW without any issues.
https://www.gates.com/us/en/power-trans ... 00000.html

or Optibelt eqv, they are same quality

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Rix » May 10 2020 2:08pm

Joe wrote:
May 08 2020 10:10pm
My belt has snapped. I‘m ordering a new one. Probably worn by the old sprocket and the new sprocket had more profile.
I‘m again bikeless.
Here is my rant and humble opinion. No disrespect to anyone what so ever. Adam originally designed this bike around the 219 pitch chain, its better, stronger, and less troublesome than the belt, and has more gearing ratio options . I know the folks don't like the noise of the chain, I guarantee its still quieter than my SurRon and Alta when I had it, and whether running the belt or chain, nobody is fooling anybody that LMX 64 bikes are not electric. I think the chain options is the better reliable option.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by TorEddy » May 10 2020 3:59pm

Rix wrote:
May 10 2020 2:08pm
Joe wrote:
May 08 2020 10:10pm
My belt has snapped. I‘m ordering a new one. Probably worn by the old sprocket and the new sprocket had more profile.
I‘m again bikeless.
Here is my rant and humble opinion. No disrespect to anyone what so ever. Adam originally designed this bike around the 219 pitch chain, its better, stronger, and less troublesome than the belt, and has more gearing ratio options . I know the folks don't like the noise of the chain, I guarantee its still quieter than my SurRon and Alta when I had it, and whether running the belt or chain, nobody is fooling anybody that LMX 64 bikes are not electric. I think the chain options is the better reliable option.
Keep in mind that these belt drives are in beta testing for exposing weaknesses like this.
The light MX bikes like SurRon and Alta is not the same as an e-enduro bike like the 64, so if we can make the 64 more silent that would be great.

BTW, I have almost no issues with the 219 chain while mostly using mode 2, but yesterday i ran all-in in mode 3 and had the chain come off four times in 30 minutes..
My 3rd Ride - LMX64 : :mrgreen:
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My 1st Ride - LR GNG Commencal : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... dy#p728668

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by briangv99 » May 10 2020 5:53pm

TorEddy wrote:
May 10 2020 3:59pm
i ran all-in in mode 3 and had the chain come off four times in 30 minutes..
Seems like the chain has stretched and/or is dirty Eddy. How many k's on that chain?

The #219 on the LMX is also an unsealed chain and I think you run some muddy tracks, so it might be time for a fresh chain.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by TorEddy » May 11 2020 2:51pm

briangv99 wrote:
May 10 2020 5:53pm
TorEddy wrote:
May 10 2020 3:59pm
i ran all-in in mode 3 and had the chain come off four times in 30 minutes..
Seems like the chain has stretched and/or is dirty Eddy. How many k's on that chain?

The #219 on the LMX is also an unsealed chain and I think you run some muddy tracks, so it might be time for a fresh chain.
I'm guessing its run a good 300ish km's.. I would be surprised if it's worn out already, but then again, lots of muddy rides.
Maybe it's something else. I drowned the chain in oil after my previous ride. It's been wiped clean on the outside, but you never know.
My 3rd Ride - LMX64 : :mrgreen:
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Rix » May 11 2020 9:38pm

TorEddy wrote:
May 11 2020 2:51pm
briangv99 wrote:
May 10 2020 5:53pm
TorEddy wrote:
May 10 2020 3:59pm
i ran all-in in mode 3 and had the chain come off four times in 30 minutes..
Seems like the chain has stretched and/or is dirty Eddy. How many k's on that chain?

The #219 on the LMX is also an unsealed chain and I think you run some muddy tracks, so it might be time for a fresh chain.
I'm guessing its run a good 300ish km's.. I would be surprised if it's worn out already, but then again, lots of muddy rides.
Maybe it's something else. I drowned the chain in oil after my previous ride. It's been wiped clean on the outside, but you never know.
A chain and aluminum sprockets life span can be as little as 10hrs in muddy conditions.

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by TorEddy » May 12 2020 2:55am

Rix wrote:
May 11 2020 9:38pm
TorEddy wrote:
May 11 2020 2:51pm
briangv99 wrote:
May 10 2020 5:53pm
TorEddy wrote:
May 10 2020 3:59pm
i ran all-in in mode 3 and had the chain come off four times in 30 minutes..
Seems like the chain has stretched and/or is dirty Eddy. How many k's on that chain?

The #219 on the LMX is also an unsealed chain and I think you run some muddy tracks, so it might be time for a fresh chain.
I'm guessing its run a good 300ish km's.. I would be surprised if it's worn out already, but then again, lots of muddy rides.
Maybe it's something else. I drowned the chain in oil after my previous ride. It's been wiped clean on the outside, but you never know.
A chain and aluminum sprockets life span can be as little as 10hrs in muddy conditions.
That sounds reasonable on a mx bike, but with mostly 2000w and 100 tooth sprocket, I suspect it will last longer. I'll have a look for sprocket wear though.
My 3rd Ride - LMX64 : :mrgreen:
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bzhwindtalker   1 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » May 12 2020 6:44am

Front sporket wear is quite fast on the 12T, it is due to the low teeh count.
For long chain and sprokets life, it is best to clean the chain on each muddy ride with wd40 to remove contaminents and prevent rust.
We also have available the CZ chains with master links, they are heavier and stronger, will last much longer than stock chains.
Most of our customers can do 1500 to 3000 km on the stock chain and sproket depending on the terrain and maintenance.
Best regards, Adam

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by madin88 » May 14 2020 6:08am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
May 10 2020 7:19am
I'm hoping the steel front sprocket is really enough to solve all our problems, so lets start with that first and see how it goes. That belt looks expensive, but let us know what they quote you.

Cheers
The best solution for the problem would be a 20T+ pulley and a motor with more torque :wink:
As it is now with only 7T engaged at such small diameter it is by far out of specs and it will always wear out quicker as you wish.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Dirty-Kurty » May 17 2020 4:15pm

bzhwindtalker wrote:
May 12 2020 6:44am
Front sporket wear is quite fast on the 12T, it is due to the low teeh count.
For long chain and sprokets life, it is best to clean the chain on each muddy ride with wd40 to remove contaminents and prevent rust.
We also have available the CZ chains with master links, they are heavier and stronger, will last much longer than stock chains.
Most of our customers can do 1500 to 3000 km on the stock chain and sproket depending on the terrain and maintenance.
Best regards, Adam
I still got the same problem with the stock chain even with removing 2 links so need to order the CZ chain. Is it really 10m for 46,00€ 😯?

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by briangv99 » May 17 2020 7:21pm

madin88 wrote:
May 14 2020 6:08am

The best solution for the problem would be a 20T+ pulley and a motor with more torque :wink:
As it is now with only 7T engaged at such small diameter it is by far out of specs and it will always wear out quicker as you wish.
I know your just taking a friendly jab madin. A larger pulley would of course be ideal, but designing and selling a bike of this type no doubt requires a balance of compromises between available parts, such as motors, weight, physical size constrains from frames and bottom brackets, and most importantly price. A great no compromise motor would be a Joby JM1 (if they were still made) or a Plettenberg Nova 15, both at a steep price.

...or maybe a cheap, high torque, compact motor will become available a some stage, but until then I'm more than happy that Adam is sinking the time and effort into developing a bolt belt drive that requires no modification. Quite an achievement, but not without some teething problems to deal with.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Joe » May 20 2020 10:50am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
May 10 2020 7:19am
Thanks Joe. Yes I agree, I want to stick with and make the belt work.

On a ride with Brian today with his chain I was surprised at how quiet overall it was actually. I guess the chain sound was more annoying to myself riding than anything...but also riding along side is not the same as what you hear as a pedestrian when it comes up behind and that I haven't really experienced much.

I'm hoping the steel front sprocket is really enough to solve all our problems, so lets start with that first and see how it goes. That belt looks expensive, but let us know what they quote you.

Cheers
62€ for the HP belt.It‘s meant to be 2X as strong.I believe my belt snapped, because of the wear of the pulley and then on a new pulley with a worn belt. I have it now, but I‘m riding with the standard belt again. I‘m waiting for the steel pulley, then I will fit the HP belt with that. New belt, new pulley. I must say, the sound difference is enorm. There is no comparison. It‘s really really quite. So quite that I can hear the tyres, yes there is a belt sound, but it‘s so greatly reduced. That is not the case with the chain. I will stick to the belt drive forever. Even If I need to exchange more often than a chain. My, how often did I need to do an oil and filter exchange of my enduro. Give me 500km with the belt and I‘m happy. But I actually think it will be more if the pulley is steel. The wear on the new pulley is already seen. The belt is grinding it down.
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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Joe » May 21 2020 5:31am

PAS time delay. I‘ve found the setting with help from NucularTech.
Before the bike would power forward after you stop Pedalling.
Goto to devices. Enter nucular controller.
Goto Control enter green button on pedal assist system.
Look for PAS timeout. Default is 0.26 cek. Set to 0.02.
Save.
Now the pedal assist stops immediately. I haven‘t fully tested all situations but the first feel was very good.
They say also that the PAS filter default 10khz will also adjust smoothness. Haven‘t tried that yet.
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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » May 21 2020 7:30am

Thanks Joe.

Yes, I've been playing with that setting also. I found it has a side effect though...it will pulse with pedal strokes if too low as it thinks you have stopped pedalling between power strokes. Does yours not do this?

Cheers
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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Joe » May 21 2020 1:22pm

HI CD
I didn‘t notice this, but I was on very low mode 3 settings. I was riding at max 25kmh. I‘ll pump up the settings and give it another go.
At these low setting it was absolutely perfect. Wow and with low settings, I used 200 watts and travelled 40Km. That means I could travel close to 160Km at these settings. Not that I‘m likely to do that, but it‘s good to know.
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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » May 21 2020 11:53pm

So I just did some more testing with the PAS cek time out setting and noticed a few things.
If the torque averaging pedal strokes setting is any less than 2 turns the cek setting had a much stronger pulsing effect.
A higher torque averaging setting results in a huge delay before any assist.
I found the best balance to be cek of 0.6 and torque averaging of 2 strokes. There is still a small delay when coming on/off the power but it's way better than it was.
I also set my max PAS power to 80% which is obviously dependant on the mode, however I completely disable PAS in mode 3 for safety.

Thanks to Brian I also now have some 160mm cranks which slightly change the PAS torque levels, so not sure if that's helping also.

Now if my replacement sprocket would get un-lost in the post I will have this LMX dialled in perfectly.

Cheers
My stuff:
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Cowardlyducks - Videos - Ride videos
BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

For Sale:
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs - Australia only
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Joe » May 22 2020 3:32am

Hi CD
I loaded the full power mode and rode for 6km in Mode 3.
I have no delay, no pulsing, instant power and immediate stop after pedaling.
It might depend on the pedaling roundness. If one foot is stronger than the other. I wouldn‘t call this pulsing.
I see my PAS max out is only set to 50%??? I will try setting this higher to see if I get any pulsing.
Here is my config. Don‘t know why the photos are now sideways.
As far as I know these are all the standard settings.
Maybe you could drop me yours so I can compare.
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