Will these work with Baserunner?

antbrown

10 µW
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
6
Hi,

I am new to this forum and building my first ebike, so please be gentle ! Basically, I want only to receive assistance from the motor when I am pedaling. The frame is a custom build and the intention is to create a stealth ebike.

What I propose is to use the baserunner coupled to a Bafang G310 rear hub motor, with a Sempu torque sensing BB but without the use of a Cycle Analyst ? Can anyone tell me if this is possible, or will I require the Cycle Analyst ?

All I want to use on the handlebar is an digital aux input to change pedal assist level. Can this input be wired directly to the baserunner using the additional hidden wires in the throttle cable ?

Many thanks, and appreciate the assistance.

Anthony
 
antbrown said:
What I propose is to use the baserunner coupled to a Bafang G310 rear hub motor, with a Sempu torque sensing BB but without the use of a Cycle Analyst ?
Unfortunately the Baserunner has no PAS (or torque sensor) input, so to do this without a CA you'd have to design and build your own "interpreter" electronics for the signals the Sempu puts out, and translate those into a throttle signal.

I don't know what the total end cost of doing that would be, but if you're not experienced at this sort of thing already I expect it would approach or exceed the cost of a CA v3 to prototype and program and build. :(

(it certainly would for me. :oops: )


All I want to use on the handlebar is an digital aux input to change pedal assist level. Can this input be wired directly to the baserunner using the additional hidden wires in the throttle cable ?
Similarly, this would also require interpreter electronics, to get the switch input to alter the throttle input by whatever amount you wanted it to for each button press.

The CA v3 can do this via presets, and might be able to use the digiaux feature to directly alter the PAS level in some way. You'd have to check teh CA v3 page to see which values can be directly altered by the digiaux input. (not all of them can)

Of course, you don't have to mount hte CA on the handlebars, it can go in the battery box or bag, etc.
 
I don't know what the total end cost of doing that would be, but if you're not experienced at this sort of thing already I expect it would approach or exceed the cost of a CA v3 to prototype and program and build. :(

(it certainly would for me. :oops: )
Agreed, cost would be prohibitive and I don't have the technical ability either.

The CA v3 can do this via presets, and might be able to use the digiaux feature to directly alter the PAS level in some way. You'd have to check teh CA v3 page to see which values can be directly altered by the digiaux input. (not all of them can)

I think the CAv3 is looking like the best option here.

Of course, you don't have to mount the CA on the handlebars, it can go in the battery box or bag, etc.

No battery bag for me, trying to make this machine as stealth as possible. Battery in the downtube (44mm Columbus tube), and Baserunner mounted up under the bicycle seat. Cabling run inside the frame as much as possible, and I am hoping the only visible item will be the items mounted on the handlebar.

I'll post some photos when I eventually get this thing built......hopefully. Frame is being custom designed and built by a friend who is a frame builder.

Thanks for your reply, really appreciate it.
 
Hi there,

I have built a new bike as follows;

1. Bafang G310 rear hub motor
2. Baserunner controller;
3. Sempu torque sensing bottom bracket (requires 6V - 60V)

I have 12 V supply to Sempu and I have connected signal / output from Sempu to throttle input on Baserunner. There is no Cycle Analyst on this machine.

I get a steady 1.4V from the Sempu but this does not change when I step on the pedals.

Motor test runs perfectly, but when I pedal there is no signal from Sempu to Basrunner, and hence no throttle signal from Baserunner to motor.

What am I missing here, all help gratefully received.
 
antbrown said:
I have 12 V supply to Sempu and I have connected signal / output from Sempu to throttle input on Baserunner. There is no Cycle Analyst on this machine.
As noted previously, this will not work.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1496878#p1496878

You must have something to interpret the Sempu output signal into a compatible throttle signal. The Cycle Analyst will do this, or you can design your own, based on the Sempu's output signal specifications, vs the Baserunner's input signal requirements.

If you need help picking out the right Cycle Analyst version for your needs, you should contact Grin Tech via their website http://ebikes.ca or directly at info@ebikes.ca .

If you want to design and build your own interpreter, I don't know where to point you at; it depends on your existing knowledge and desire to learn electronics and programming.
 
Grin has previously told me that this setup will work and does not require a Cycle Analyst to interpret the signal from Sempu. I've gone back to them and requested assistance to troubleshoot, but thought others may have experience with Sempu who can assist me also.
 
When I asked if the torque signal voltage sent from the Sempu directly to the Baserunner throttle connection can be interpreted without the use of a Cycle Analyst, the advice from Grin was:

The torque signal voltage from Sempu can be interpreted by Baserunner without the use of a Cycle Analyst. The Baserunner has no way to know if this voltage is a throttle or a torque sensor, nor does it really care, it just outputs a torque proportional to the input signal voltage. The cadence pulses of the Sempu are totally ignored.

Just trying to understand if there is a way to resolve this.
 
Certainly you can use any variable voltage input to any controller with a throttle input...but those inputs are generally designed around a specific voltage range that common throttles output, which can be around 1v up to around 4v. (varies with design of throttle, and expected input range varies with controller design--throttles I've seen as low as 0.7v minimum to 3v max, to as high as 1.4v to 4.2v max...controller input ranges vary too).

So using a voltage source that doesnt' have the same output range, especially if it is much smaller than the range expected by the controller, means you don't get the same control range you would with a throttle.

That is where "interpreter devices" become required, unless the controller has a programmable input range.

Otherwise, you have to live with the mismatch between demand device output range (throttle, torque sensor, etc), and the controller's throttle input range.

Such a mismatch can be simply that the demand device doesnt' go high enough in voltage to ask for full power from the controller. Or it can be that the demand device's output starts above the level at which the controller begins responding, so the controller will never shut off and will always run the motor. Or other ranges of consequences.

If the Baserunner has a programmable throttle input that you can setup specifically for the Sempu's output range, then have you done that in the Baserunner setup program, per whatever instructions Grin Tech has given? (assuming they gave any beyond what you quoted, which is insufficient information to help you do what you want, and by itself is not really helpful).

I'd be interested to see their specific setup instructions for this configuration. Their manual and product pages have no references to this method of operation.


The Sempu itself has an output that starts above the typical minimum throttle voltage outputs, according to their pages:
Product Description tab: This sensor has a resting torque voltage of 1.5V that increases to 4.0V with force on the pedals
Spec tab: Torque Scale ~30 to 60 Nm/V
Additional info tab:
Torque Scale: +50.8 Nm/V
Zero Torque: ~1.5 +/- 0.05V

So you should get 1.5v with no feet on pedals, up to 4.0v with maximum force on them.

That means you'd need to setup the Baserunner's throttle input (if it's programmable) to match that range.

If it's not programmable, then you're stuck with whatever the crossover happens to be between the Baserunner's input range, and the Sempu's output range, and whatever behavior this causes.

A caveat of direct connection this way, is if the Sempu's output drifts upward in voltage (apparently not uncommon with torque sensors, probably dependent on environmental factors), past what you've got set as the lower limit in the Baserunner, it'll be telling the Baserunner that you're asking for motor operation even when you don't have your feet on the pedals. To zero this, and prevent undesired motor operation, you'd have to go back into the Baserunner settings, and increase the minimum expected voltage on the throttle input to whatever the Sempu now outputs.


You noted previously that the output voltage on the Sempu you have never varies from 1.4v, when connected to the Baserunner. Is that also true when it is not connected to it?

If it never varies at all, something is probably wrong with it, but I don't know what (I've only used the TDCM and THUN).
 
Thanks for your help.

If the Baserunner has a programmable throttle input
I confirm that the Baserunner is fully programmable including throttle input voltage range.

Primary problem is that Sempu resting voltage of 1.4V does not change when torque / force is applied to the pedals.

I will await response from Grin to try and resolve the problem.

Thanks again for your feedback.
 
antbrown said:
I will await response from Grin to try and resolve the problem.

Antbrown, did you succeed in getting the Sempu sensor to work with the Baserunner with no Cycle Analyst? I'd love to do the same as I park my bike on the street often during the course of my work day and would love one less thing available to fail when exposed to vandals.
 
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