What makes a good commuter?

Hey guys,

Trying to keep it short while explaining my needs. But I just got a new job that's 18km away. (About 11 miles). The ride is from 60m above sea level, to basically sea level. (And of course, return) Steepest hill is about 9%, but only very short. (80ish meters?).

I put my old eBike away for a while. Pulled it out tonight, and remembered how much the bike was built on a budget, for a purpose. (Maybe that's why I had my signature the way it was) Last time I used it, I was only 10km from work, and although I tuned it up to be able to hit 48km/h or so on the flat, it really wasn't designed for that. No suspension, narrow tyres, V-brakes, and a Cute Q100C. I recall doing most the trip around 25 km/h, and only using the higher speeds for short bursts, like when I was in traffic. The bike didn't feel entirely stable, and I burned a couple motors out trying to keep the 45km/h speed all the way.

Anyway, new job doesn't offer parking - not even motorcycle parking, so I am thinking of using an eBike again, but this time, the journey is nearly twice as long, and I want to go higher sustained speed so it doesn't take too long to get to work. I earn more now, and can afford quality. Of course quality means both better built, but also more fit for the job.

So... What makes a good commuter? And why? When you look up commuter bikes, they are all effectively flat bar road bikes with a more comfortable position, and slightly wider tyres/wheels for safety. But they probably don't expect people to be doing constant 45km/h+

So, what makes a good commuter at 45km/h? I can pretty much build anything these days. I've been working on an Electric Motorcycle, building batteries, modifying chargers, etc. have a 3D printer and access to a CNC mill. Sky's the limit in terms of the electric side and customisation. But I've never really learned much about push bikes themselves. E.g.:

On quality tarmac, (there are potholes, but they're not big) does suspension make a difference? Just Front? Both?

Road bikes seem to very rarely have disc brakes, but hybrids do. So it doesn't seem like speed is the reason to get disc brakes. Is it dirt/water? Is it worth the extra money?

I've also heard very good things about IGHs with Belt drives for commuters. Very reliable, quiet, etc - at least until they go wrong, then you're up for big money. Any thoughts? Worth it?

Appreciate the feedback.

45 kph isn't hard, but as you found, keeping it light and going that fast can be.

Here is how I see the number one problem with commuting farther than say 5 miles. You really gotta get there not too late, when shit happens. Now its too far to limp it in and be 10 min late. So it starts with a thicker tire, maybe some more air in it compared to a road tire if a leak is slow, and plenty of leak stopper in it. Slime, or Stans, whatever. That is the main reason for running a big fat cruiser tire on the commuter. So that, for me, takes out road bikes, and skinnier street slicks. It really helps if you can just pull out a staple, and still have enough air to make it in without breaking out the pump. But other than that, bikes are plenty durable. But to run 45 kph constantly, the stiffer the frame is from side to side the better.

On the motor, it doesn't take much really. You aren't asking for real motorcycle speed. Reliability of all this stuff has improved, if you stay away from 20 buck controllers on the cheapest kits. You need 1000w sustained to keep up a decent speed, so you need a 500w rated motor, not a 250w. And as I mentioned, the bike just got heavier too before motor and battery. But your basic 500w geared motor can handle it as long as the loads are below 300 pounds total. But you do get a bit better heat dissipation, and quieter at top speed from a 500w rated dd motor, like a nine c type. I never commuted with a mid drive, but I gather that they have been improved too.

Battery for that length ride there and back needs to be at least 1000wh. But charge at work would be ideal. Keep the charger there at work.

Back to the bike itself.
Disk may not really stop better, but they need a bit less adjustment if you use them hard a lot, as urban riding does. Haul ass, stop, haul ass, stop. So I liked disk best. Nothing fancy needed. Just a cheap copy of a bb5 works fine. But I commuted a lot for 5 years, and never had a disk bike till the very end. I just had to do a routine tune up of the bike about every two weeks. Tighten a spoke here and there, lube a chain, and adjust brakes because the pads wore that much, or loosened. Always stopped fine.

Because I was cruising about 40 kph, I came to require decent dual suspension a real mtb, of good quality. Then I put tall bars on it so I could sit up straight, and look at the cars. Riding in a tuck urban is suicide. Much of this was not for potholes, but for the dips in the bike trail that would actually launch you in a jump at 40 kph. But good off road suspension helped a lot with the very rough pavement common in the desert southwest USA. Now that I don't commute, I ride no suspension longtails. Not in a hurry now, I just slow for a bad spot. So when I ride that same trail now, I simply slow down, or am riding slower all the time anyway. The longtail I built for speed, but generally ride much slower, so on it I take a pounding only if I choose to haul ass on bad road.

But you have to evaluate the route yourself, and maybe find alternate routes for a bad stretch. Then see what you think you need. If you need to carry a lot of gear, then a longtail cant be beat, and the seat position nearly eliminates any need for suspension on most street riding. But if you mean to pound it out fast on bad road, I'd go for good suspension. Just dial it in stiff, so you don't bounce because you pedal hard. It will not feel so plush that way, but it will ride nice on street, yet still have 100 mm or more to soak up a pothole you never saw coming. You really need this if your schedule has you running in the dark. In any case, the bike needs to be sturdy and decent quality. No 150 buck mtb's. But if you go the cruiser route, you can take a strong steel cruiser that's cheap, and improve the wheels.

And you have to have panniers. At the very least, sometimes you will have a lot of layers of coats to carry in the afternoons part of the year. And other times you will want to carry groceries home. If that bike is a suspension bike, you need a really sturdy seatpost rack, made to carry panniers. Axxiom used to make a good one.

You don't need belt drive, or an Igh. To pedal that fast though, you will need a very tall gear, so the bike needs to be able to fit a big front ring. Some mtb's cannot fit big rings. You'll stay in that top gear so how you shift does not matter. Keeping the pants clean may be needed, depending on your job dress code. Because of that alone, a cruiser or commuter type bike that does have a chain guard can be nice. But there are easy ways to keep your pants out of chains too. I like the classic metal pant clip when I ride the mtb's or road bikes.

Thanks Dogman.

So it would seem full suspension and a decent width wheel would be helpful for this bike.

An update on the constraints, last night while stripping everything down, I noticed every pack had 1-2 puffed cells, I decided that the rest can't be far behind, so it's time for a new battery. New battery is now going to be a Lithium Titanate 48v, 8Ah battery with two chargers. It's not quite enough, as you also calculated out, but I will be pedaling, and as LTO battery, there's no need to be messing around with 90% maximum state of charge, and avoiding deep depths of discharge. I chose the 8Ah over the 12Ah model, as it is almost exactly the same size as my rear rack, and is 1" thick, making it very hard to see.

Because of this unexpected expense, I am leaning towards reusing the PhaseRunner, ruling out mid-drive. If I do, I already have a MAC 10T, or a Cute Q100H (Not "C" As I mentioned originally). With the H designation, 1000w sustained is not impossible, with some modifications. The Ball bearing + Spring clutch mod, ATF to help heat dissipation, perhaps a temp sensor to do a bit of power roll back? I'm pretty sure the PhaseRunner could do that. It might seem the MAC 10T was an obvious choice, but while I was running it, I got a lot of comments. In years, not a single person commented on the Q100H while I was moving, and only 2 or 3 while I was stopped - again, there is an appeal of flying under the radar. Either motor, this limits me now to 700c or 29ers, unless I get the wheel re-laced.

Back to the bike... I think I will look for a a disc brake compatible fork/frame. Low maintenance was definitely one of my key attributes. Again. Lower maintenance. I did have to do a clean an adjust every few weeks on the v-brakes, so not having to do that would be great.

Thanks for the heads up about chainring on MTBs. My current bike has as a 52/11, so I was automatically assuming I could move it over to a MTB. What will it interfere with? Not sure how I can check for a particular frame before I buy, so I may have to just live with something smaller. A 48/11 might be okay, I don't think a 44/11 would keep up over 40km/h.

Anyway, I should finish stripping everything down and see what is salvageable and figure out a budget I'm willing to work towards.

can u link where u get your lithium titaniumnate lto batteries?

bakaneko said:

can u link where u get your lithium titaniumnate lto batteries?

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https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000268896954.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.de91df816zG8Tu

It's those cells in 20S2P. I already have my own BMS that can manage LTO cells.

There are also 12Ah cells available, but due to their size, it's harder to configure the layout how I want (Remembering that I have a 3D printer, so I am making my own case - I wanted something as small and flat and easy to hide as possible).

Please note, I am not endorsing the seller. But my quantity is too small for OSN power, my preferred trusted supplier of LTO, but it's not Shenzhen Foxellion or Foxell (Pretty sure they are the same company), which burned me a couple years ago, and have a 90% positive rating for a reason.

These guys are new to the market, but have done 14 all positive sales in the past 3 months, so I'm taking a punt.

For me, a commuter needs to be reliable, durable, and comfortable. It also needs a fair bit of carrying capacity. I concluded that a front suspension, hardtail mountain bike with a robust/stiff frame was the way to go. I go with the hardtail for durability and simplicity and because it makes attaching strong racks/baskets easier. Yes, at higher speeds you need to watch the road and take the weight off the pedals for bumps, dips, and potholes. You could also install a suspension seatpost. But once you've commuted on your route a few times, you'll know the spots to look out for.

You don't have a significant hill issue, so a direct drive rear wheel seems appropriate - again for the durability/reliability. I agree with dogman about the tire reliability - with a particular focus on rear tire reliability. Front tire reliability isn't as important for two reasons. First, the front tire is quicker and easier to repair. Second, the front tire is less likely to get punctured in the first place. This is true because it carries less load and because there's no tire in front of it kicking stuff up and making it more likely for it to run over the sharp point of something. My experience makes it clear that the rear tire is easily 2-3 times more likely to get punctured or be threatened to be punctured. I've dealt with the rear tire durability issue by using the tire within a tire method plus a "toughie" strip. Over 5000 miles with no rear flats now. I also agree with dogman about the battery capacity.

You'll want fenders. You'll want an extra bright headlight for riding at night at near 45 kph. I run a motorcycle light. I can see stuff down the road in pitch black. And cars friggin' see me at night. Another reason to have extra battery capacity - to power up some lights. I want to be seen. Gaudy is good.

You'll want tall gearing if you intend to pedal along. I run 53x11 and 53x13 for high speed (26" tires) I have found a good sized front and rear basket to be invaluable in making the bike useful and flexible. I have also integrated a charger into the rear basket. I don't like wearing a backpack for more than a mile or so.

Sunder said:

Thanks for the heads up about chainring on MTBs. My current bike has as a 52/11, so I was automatically assuming I could move it over to a MTB. What will it interfere with? Not sure how I can check for a particular frame before I buy, so I may have to just live with something smaller. A 48/11 might be okay, I don't think a 44/11 would keep up over 40km/h.

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Your gearing will depend on what pedal cadence is comfortable to you. 90 seems fast to me. So I lean toward tall gearing. For me, 53x12 would be ideal in a 45 kph bike. So I tend to bounce back and forth between my 53x11 and 53x13.

I put a road chainring on my mountain bike. I took off the old crank and then eyeball fitted where the chainring needed to be to clear the chainstays. I then ordered a bottom bracket that had the appropriate offset.

Sunder said:

So... What makes a good commuter? And why? When you look up commuter bikes, they are all effectively flat bar road bikes with a more comfortable position, and slightly wider tyres/wheels for safety. But they probably don't expect people to be doing constant 45km/h+

So, what makes a good commuter at 45km/h?

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That depends on your specific needs, body limitations, terrain / road quality, etc.

For instance, to go that speed (around 27-28mph) around my area, with bumpy / potholey roads, stop and go traffic, lots of stuff to watch out for and have to be able to dodge or brake for, I'd need good suspension to keep control of the bike in some of these places. 20MPH isn't as bad but I wish I had suspension for some of it; bounces the trike around a lot (and the bike, back when I used that). Since the bike and trike I have are much heavier than a regular bike, I expect a regular ebike without suspension (or with generic basic / crappy suspension) would bounce around a lot, more at higher speeds.

Sometimes I have no way to avoid bad spots, and can't even slow down because of traffic around and behind me, where normally I'd just go around the worst of it, or slow to go thru it. Without suspension, at the higher speeds, I could lose control of the bike or trike with the bouncing I get in those (or break wheels, etc).


Braking...I have to stop a lot, often suddenly because of other traffic on the road, pedestrians/etc that step off sidewalks, and so on. I'm using a single front Avid BB7 203mm disc on the front of the trike, but I previously used dual rim brakes that gave just as good a braking...limitation is there's not enough weight on the front so regen braking in the rear does more stopping than the front does. On the bike, rim brakes on the front and rear would do it, regen helped too. Good discs would also have worked. Tires/traction are really the limitation on braking, along with the road surfaces (often loose surface bits in areas I most need to brake hard, or very slick surfaces), once the brakes are decent.

What are your roads like where you must ride for your commute?


Also, I don't ride upright bikes well anymore, not for any real distance, because of problems in my hands/arms, and my knees/etc have issues so I can't stand and ride over stuff very well. So I use semi-recumbents, with downward-angled grips.

Do you have any limitations that might affect what you can ride, ro how long you can ride it?


If you can stand and ride then bumpy roads don't hurt you much, but if they're bad enough and going fast enough, they can make it hard to control the bike.


For me, I have to be able to carry a lot of stuff, so my commuter must be a cargo bike. I also have to have a long range, even though I have a very short commute, and onboard recharging, because sometimes I not only have to commute but also have to make side trips or even go somewhere while working, get groceries, haul big cargo, etc. Very occasionally, I have to ride 30 miles + on a trip, without a recharge.

What kind of needs do you have?


LIghting...I ride day and night, but I prefer the night, because it's much easier to make myself seen with good all-over lighting, though it is harder to see some things due to headlights in my eyes, requring a better headlight, with good horizon-limit, etc.

Fenders...we dont' get much rain, but when we do it's usually really heavy, and I have to ride in it. So good fenders, good rain suit, etc.

Road bikes seem to very rarely have disc brakes, but hybrids do. So it doesn't seem like speed is the reason to get disc brakes. Is it dirt/water? Is it worth the extra money?

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Contamination is the main thing about disc over rim. Not having to have true wheels is another advantage. Rim brakes have a bigger rotor, though, so cheaper rim brakes can brake better than same price disc, given the right pads and road conditions; if you have a flexy frame/fork just add a U-bracket for stiffening. But bend the rim a little and the brakes rub or don't work, mud / oily water loses braking power, etc. Koolstop pads work better in the wet and can give great braking even "underwater", but on the road especially during the start of a storm the oil on the surface ends up on the braking surface....

Worth it? Depeends on your needs. $60 (half that on good sales) gets you a wheel's worth of Avid BB7 disc brake, if you have mounts for them on frame and hub. $20 or less gets you Koolstop pads and maybe a brake arch, for existing rim brakes. Both cases you can replace cables/housings and sometimes get significant performance improvments.

I've also heard very good things about IGHs with Belt drives for commuters. Very reliable, quiet, etc - at least until they go wrong, then you're up for big money. Any thoughts? Worth it?

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Derailers are cheap, and easy to fix on the road, easy to adjust, etc. IGHs are nice, too. It's not necessarily big money, but if it breaks then to replace it you have to relace the wheel. Derailers you just unbolt and swap otu, or use a chainwhip to take off the broken freewheel/sprockets and replace with new. Or cassette/sprockets. (unless the cassette freehub breaks, in which case you still relace the wheel).

Derailers you can make up your very own gearing combination, which you can change simply by changing what sprockets sizes you have, in what order, on the cassette (freewheels, too, little more work). IGHs you're stuck with the gearing ratios it's built with.


IGHs aren't built to handle motor power, so while you could use it, it's going to wear it out faster (potentially even breaking it), and rquire replacment sooner, than with human power (some don't even handle human power all that well). Derailers / sprockets are also going to wear faster, but they're easy to replace without relacing the wheel.

Belt requires a frame you can open up at the stays, to get the belt in. That eliminates any frame that doesnt' do that unless you can machine / rebuild / build frames.

Worth it? depends on your specific needs.

Re the brakes. If you pick out a good MTB, meaning it cost at least a thou new 10 years ago, it will have disk brakes. Even the cheapos these days have disc. If you should go the cruiser route, its not hard to weld brake mounts to steel frames or forks. This is what I did with my Schwinn cruiser conversion to long tail. Its now got dual disc, and depending on the voltage I run, goes 30-40 mph. But now retired, I ride it 20 mph nearly all the time now. ( currently my battery is 52v or 44v.) But as for stopping power, when you weigh a lot, you get more into wanting disc. At 300 pounds total weight, you can still stop fine with rim brakes. But you gotta true the wheel more often. Adjust pads more often. Disc is just nice for the interval between adjustments.

Let me get more specific on the bike though, a really good mtb will have a good fork on it. Rockshock or better, and preferably not the bottom of the line (rockshocks dart) . All these forks will have disc mount. Look for full adjustability on the fork. If it lacks adjustments, its cheap junk, and indicates that most likely the frame is junk too.

The REALLY important thing is the frame, and you almost never get it on the cheap bike. My 2005 giant is a tank, Its that years version of an affordable DH mtb. Its frame is so stiff and thick, its not a light mtb at all.

It ran as a commuter for 4 years hard, with no discernable wear on the frame. Then it ran 6 years with a huge rear hub on it, essentially a 72v motorcycle. Still no problems with the frame.. Lost count of how many forks it broke down riding dirt, but the frame is solid to this day. That frame is why you pick a bike that might have cost $2500 usd new. Then build that frame out to commute. Yes, get an MTB front fender for sure! and put something on the rear rack to keep the water off. I just line it with some foam flooring pad, or anything flexible zip tied to the rack, and extending down towards the crank. More comfortable saddle, whatever your ass prefers, and taller handlebars. Lights of course if you ride in the dark, and now you got a commuter.

picture of the giant, when I was commuting on it. I wouldn't do it front hub now, but it worked if I installed the motor properly, on the alloy fork. Take note of how the seatpost rack got stiffened with additional diagonal braces. this was a key thing for avoiding broken seatposts from the rack weight. It might be well worth it to go with a hard tail bike, just so you can mount the battery in the triangle easier.

Re the motor, yeah, the mac 10 t will do your stated wants without overheating much, if you weigh less than 110 kilos. If you are bigger, then you do indeed need a direct drive. But now that you say you want quieter, you are looking at DD motors. But again, even the cheap ass 1000w kit motors will do the job. These are the 9c type design 500w rated motors. They can stand 2000w for short periods, and 1000w all day. Sine wave controller will make it as silent as it gets. The mac of course, gets very loud when you get towards 40 kph. If you push towards 60 kph, then go with a huge 25 pound hub motor, but the 15 pound 1000w kit type will do 48v 40 amps just fine, assuming that battery can do that. 48v or 52v 20 amps will get you in the 25-30 mph ballpark fine though.

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I have a pretty clear plan now, based on feedback. I'm going in two phases:

1. Lower my expectations and speed, reuse everything I have. (Unsuspended hybrid, rim brakes, Mac 10T and Phaserunner) I am only 78kg currently, but my "ideal" weight is 72kg, and the reason I want to partly pedal. Leave myself extra time to get there for the first month, get a good feel for where high speed is even possible (From memory, about 60% is shared paths, so 45km/h is gonna piss a lot of pedestrians off, 20% is on road so 45km/h is gonna piss a lot of drivers off, and 20% is dedicated bike path so 45km/h is gonna piss a lot of riders off. (Is this the time to ask the reddit question "AITA"?)

2. If it's a feasible ride, and I think I can save >15 minutes each way by actually hitting and sustaining 45km/h, I will invest up to $2500 Australian into the bike (About $2k USD). My priority will be getting a good frame, good front forks, good disc brakes, quality lights and splash guards.

To answers some random questions:

A. I've never done this path in full, but I've done most of it in parts over time. I don't recall anywhere that wasn't nearly perfect pavement, but some of this was as long as 7 or 8 years ago.

B. I don't need to carry much. As an IT professional, a laptop and a few cables that fit in a backpack is all I need, and this is meant to be purely a commute bike, not a car replacement. I did use panniers to hide the MAC 10T in the past, and may do so again, and leave the option open to do some light top up shopping.

So maybe one last thing I am unclear in my mind. I know carbon fibre is generally considered unsuitable for eBikes. But if I am willing to put in a very long current ramp up, to reduce the instantaneous torque, do you think I can get away with it? The bike is likely to need to be carried up stairs, so any weight I can lose would be beneficial.

"What makes a good commuter?"

Dual suspension for a comfortable ride.
Quick enough to out-accelerate almost everything to create a nice safe riding space in front of everyone.
Fast enough to pace traffic with headroom to spare to accelerate away from situations you don't want. The result is that you cross paths with far fewer cars and generally choose the interaction you desire.
A big battery so never any range anxiety.
Built as water resistant as possible.
Full lighting including daytime running lights, brake lights, and turn signals.
Built strong and tough with absolute reliability as the goal, so hard wire or bolt together connections only.
Motorcycle tires, not bicycle tires.
The higher speeds demand absolute focus and then staying safe becomes relatively easy.
Depending where you live the ebike in question probably needs to be registered and plated.

John in CR said:

"What makes a good commuter?"

Dual suspension for a comfortable ride.
Quick enough to out-accelerate almost everything to create a nice safe riding space in front of everyone.
Fast enough to pace traffic with headroom to spare to accelerate away from situations you don't want. The result is that you cross paths with far fewer cars and generally choose the interaction you desire.
A big battery so never any range anxiety.
Built as water resistant as possible.
Full lighting including daytime running lights, brake lights, and turn signals.
Built strong and tough with absolute reliability as the goal, so hard wire or bolt together connections only.
Motorcycle tires, not bicycle tires.
The higher speeds demand absolute focus and then staying safe becomes relatively easy.
Depending where you live the ebike in question probably needs to be registered and plated.

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Thanks John. I have another project about halfway through that's a 160km/h capable electric motorcycle built on a Kawasaki Ninja frame that meets all those needs, but I have to do the compliance and registration as you say, so that's months off.

This is more about a electric push bike that can be brought inside an office.

John in CR said:

"What makes a good commuter?"

Dual suspension for a comfortable ride.

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Reliability. Meaning rigid.

Quick enough to out-accelerate almost everything to create a nice safe riding space in front of everyone.

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Reliability. Meaning modest power.

Fast enough to pace traffic with headroom to spare to accelerate away from situations you don't want.

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Reliability. Meaning modest speed.

Motorcycle tires, not bicycle tires.

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Reasonable efficiency. Meaning puncture-protected bicycle tires. Having to throw away horsepower on your tires means having unnecessary horsepower to spare-- which means more weight, more cost, more likely points of failure.

Just talking out of my ass as a cyclist who's commuted only on a bike for many years. The backup plan for my bike is another bike. After that, another bike.

you like to pedal, why not use a bafang g310 geared motor with the 20 inch wheel winding, its 10.6 rpm/v. that should get you going around 60km/h? in a 26 rim. I think its only 500 watts youre cassette and disc would hide it. a phaserunner, 8ah battery and little geared hub. your ebike would be almost impossible to spot and very light.

Sunder said:

B. I don't need to carry much. As an IT professional, a laptop and a few cables that fit in a backpack is all I need, and this is meant to be purely a commute bike, not a car replacement. I did use panniers to hide the MAC 10T in the past, and may do so again, and leave the option open to do some light top up shopping.

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I'm an animator/graphic artist and don't need to carry much either. Mostly its a change of clothes, and two drink bottles. It all fits in one backpack, but wearing a backpack while cycling take a lot of the joy out of cycling for me. So the backpack goes in a milk crated mounted on my rear rack. If I need to do some shopping, I can always wear the backpack and have extra carrying capacity.

I doubt a you can actually shave 15 minutes off of your ride with a long fast section in the middle. On my 16 mile commute, the difference between a slow and a fast ride was about five minutes.

I don't have an informed opinion on using a composite frame. What I would say is that the placement of batteries and size of motor would be major factors on how easy the bike is to haul up some stairs. Being able to detach the batteries might be worthwhile. Using a lower capacity battery and charging while at work might help reduce weight. That may mean the batteries don't last as long, but that might be a good compromise for your situation. Don't integrate the charger with the bike as I did. Just have a second charger at work.

wturber said:

I doubt a you can actually shave 15 minutes off of your ride with a long fast section in the middle. On my 16 mile commute, the difference between a slow and a fast ride was about five minutes.

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If I can do 20km/h faster for just 5km of the 18km trip, that should be my 15 minutes, right? It's so hard to model these things, when it's a mix of bike capability, and situations not permitting 45km/h safely.

wturber said:

I don't have an informed opinion on using a composite frame. What I would say is that the placement of batteries and size of motor would be major factors on how easy the bike is to haul up some stairs. Being able to detach the batteries might be worthwhile. Using a lower capacity battery and charging while at work might help reduce weight. That may mean the batteries don't last as long, but that might be a good compromise for your situation. Don't integrate the charger with the bike as I did. Just have a second charger at work.

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Apparently Carbon Fibre are "harder" than Aluminium, but fail without notice. So there are professionally made eBikes with a CF frame, but I presume it's been well engineered and tested.

Weight distribution is a good point. Everything is on or over the back wheel. I should probably see if I can move more of the weight to the front.

That said, the whole thing shouldn't weigh that much.

Sunder said:

If I can do 20km/h faster for just 5km of the 18km trip, that should be my 15 minutes, right? It's so hard to model these things, when it's a mix of bike capability, and situations not permitting 45km/h safely.

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How do you figure? At 25 km/h it takes 12 minutes to cover 5 km. So even if you covered the 5km at the speed of light the most you could save is just under 12 minutes. If you can cover it twice as fast at 50 km/h, then you'll save half the time - six minutes. Under ideal conditions you might save 5 minutes by going 45 km/h.

FWIW, I didn't do the math before I made my previous comment. I made that comment based on practical experience. For instance, I've noticed that with my e-bike, it basically takes me twice as long to go a given distance as compared to my car. So reasonable interpolations quickly shows that saving substantial time requires really large increases in speed.

If your general street situation is similar to where I live, then your commute by car is about 20 minutes and the bike commute will probably cluster around 35-40 minutes. If you went car speeds the whole way, you could save 15-20 minutes over ebike speeds. No way that going sub-car speeds (45 km/h) for 5 km is going to save 15 minutes. This is why I no longer try to maintain 45 km/h unless I'm going downhill. Anywhere between 35 and 45 km/h makes for a reasonable commute. If going faster than that is important, then you need a proper motor vehicle.

My rough figuring assumes "normal" city streets. It might be off if you have very long stretches without any stops signs or intersections to slow for.

The main reason I commute by ebike is that it improves my overall quality of life by integrating exercise into my daily routine, getting exposure to the elements, meeting people, and otherwise simply feeling more in touch with my world. Getting to my destination in an expeditious manner takes a back seat - which is actually kinda liberating. That untethering from the impulse to "get there quickly" or to be "time efficient" seems to be rewarding all by itself. But this is just for me. Can't say how others will fare.

wturber said:

...On my 16 mile commute, the difference between a slow and a fast ride was about five minutes...

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Fast vs slow only becomes equalized if there is dedicated and separate cycling infrastructure. Otherwise the difference is having interaction with hundreds of cars and trucks relying on each of them to avoid running you down, the slow moving object in their way that they have no respect for. As a responsible and courteous riding fast mover I interact with few cars other than the hundreds I pass when they are stuck in traffic either stopped or moving too slow to strike me. Plus I don't have to trust a single one of them not to run me down. In addition I don't have to ride at the side of the road were almost all of the debris is along with more obstacles and traction problems that can cause a crash, not to mention being harder to see and having much more limited space to evade problems.

The ideas of the earlier poster saying that suspension and higher power reduce inherently reduce reliability are non-sense. He spends more time in a year on the side of the road fixing flats that I spend on the side of the road in a decade (for a flat or some mechanical or electric breakdown).

The only real negative is higher upfront cost and 2-3 times the operating expense, but those are more than offset if you attribute value to your time.

Agree. On some routes anything less than a motorcycle is kind of suicide. A big part of why I ride one a lot more than my e bikes now.

My commute route went through many changes to avoid such places, till I had a route that required me to ride a busy road for only one block, out of 15 miles. Then I could ride 30 mph or 15 mph, my choice. But 30 mph for that block for sure, taking a lane. Sunder has not really discussed the route, but it will be worth it big time to take a longer, but safer route on a daily commute.

As for the time, I came to think anything less than 45 min in morning was too short. 45 min got me to work feeling energized, oxygenated, and ready to tear into the day. A shorter ride, or a car ride got me there feeling cheated out of my morning work out. After a few years, I started doing the whole ride at 20 mph, so I could enjoy it longer and pedal more. But still, if you run late for whatever reason, having 45 kph ability helps. You can haul ass in to work when you need to. You might consider 60v, just to have even more speed when you need it, like that one block I had on my route.

The only thing inherently unreliable about suspension, is the whole bike if it retailed for 150 bucks. I found those cheap alu frames very unreliable. Essentially built for a 100 pound rider, a teen. A real bike built for an adult will be reliable enough. I had fork trouble simply because I ran front motors on them. Everything else on the Giant has lasted virtually forever, through increasingly harder use now that its a dirt ride.

Re flats, plenty of sealant helps you not fix those till you get home. But you need some air in the tires so you don't have to stop to pump up. Just pull a small nail and continue. But yes, a moped rim and tire would be a plus, since it would be less likely to get a big slash from a larger nail in the road. I had a back up that I used once in 5 years. My wife could pick me up on her way to work if the bike completely failed me. I did ride home the last miles on deflated tires a few times. The junk in the road is real bad in my actual neighborhood. They are still building it out, so construction trucks drop shit everywhere.

In my book reliability is number ONE
I commute to work at minimum 300 days a year. Plus recreational riding.
Stopping for costant adjusting , fixing, etc is not for me
So I use top components: Chris king, Phil Wood, etc.
Front suspension fork is a must for me , again not cheap one.

wturber said:

How do you figure? At 25 km/h it takes 12 minutes to cover 5 km. So even if you covered the 5km at the speed of light the most you could save is just under 12 minutes. If you can cover it twice as fast at 50 km/h, then you'll save half the time - six minutes. Under ideal conditions you might save 5 minutes by going 45 km/h.

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Because I'm an idiot and posted before actually doing the maths? No idea how I came up with that number, now I'm thinking about it.

Yeah, reliability and low maintenance are my two must haves. Unfortunately, it seems that Shenzhen Battis is a rebrand of Shenzhen Foxell, and so I am trying to cancel the order. They're pulling the same shit again. They've marked it as sent and put in a fake tracking number, then come back and said "we're out of stock, will you accept <inferior substitute>".

So either I go a massive battery from OSN, or I have to accept LiPo which has more maintenance and risk (Lower final charge voltage, not fully deep discharging, and checking voltages and puff from time to time).

Dammit.

It would be just a little less massive than a LiTi battery, but you could get the EIG NMC cells from here
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=102908
they are very easy to build into packs, and even my well-used ones have been reliable on the trike and bike.

I can't say anything one way or the other about this guy's actual cells, but if they really are new-in-box...they're a good deal. I'd buy some if I could.

Sunder said:

So either I go a massive battery from OSN, or I have to accept LiPo which has more maintenance and risk (Lower final charge voltage, not fully deep discharging, and checking voltages and puff from time to time).

Dammit.

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I had really good results from those 36v hoverboard batteries. I'm thinking about trying these for my cargo bike project.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-10x-18650-Battery-Pack-BMS-EVE-ICR18650-2550mAh-20x-Cells-36V-5-1Ah-183-6Wh/114000106114?hash=item1a8aef9282:g:I6YAAOSwBDdd5~KY

DrkAngel has this report on them.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26383&p=1516042#p1516042

I do not have experience with commuting on an ebike, but I'll toss out an observation or two.

A full suspension bike has minimal unsprung weight compared to a hard tail. When a wheel passes over a bump it gets thrown upward with some speed, the bike must stop and reverse this upward speed, pushing the wheel back down onto the ground. A rigid bike will stop the upward movement and reverse it, in a much shorter time period than a suspension bike will. It takes more pounds of force to stop and reverse the wheel movement quickly than if the stop and reverse is spread out over a longer time interval. Suspension spreads out the stop and reverse force using less pounds of force than a rigid bike uses. For this reason the rider feels less jolting shock on a suspension bike compared to a rigid bike.

A suspension seatpost can sort of do the same thing for a rigid bike but the unsprung weight will always be greater than on a bike with an actual suspension. If a bike had a rear hub motor and battery on a rear rack, then a suspension bike would have a clear ride advantage over a rigid bike with a suspension seatpost. It's not just a ride advantage, the advantage also extends to avoiding pinch flats.

A heavy direct drive hub motor will cause more unsprung weight compared to a lighter geared hub motor.

A couple years ago I moved from a scooter to a motorcycle because the MC had probably three times the suspension travel and I could stand up easier on the MC. Thus the motorcycle had a far superior ride quality compared to the scooter.

Less unsprung weight, more suspension travel gives better ride and fewer pinch flats.

The Thudbuster Long Travel suspension seatpost is supposed to be really effective. Seat tube to seat is about 6" and the seat movement is in a rearward arc, back and down. Something to consider for frame choice and battery on a rear rack placement.

Keep us posted on what you do.

PS, love that DH full suspension bike that Dog Man Dan had.