Is this a lie?! False Avertising

bike4life

10 W
Joined
Apr 10, 2020
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82
On ebay, it is advertised a 48v 36ah lithium cell for only 170 bucks...

Is this a lie?!

I dont understand how 1500 watts can fit in such a small size of 240mm x 66mm x 60mm in the description
which is around 9.5" x 2.5" x 2.5"

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-36Ah-ebike-battery-pack-1000W-high-power-charger-NEW-lithium-ion-Tech/224053321153?hash=item342a9e5dc1:g:5AQAAOSwPLNe79CE

Thanks... I believe this is probably like a 1000w or 700w battery with a label that says 36ah slapped on it. complete lie.???
The description says 13 series 3 parrell....
which is 1700 watts / 39 = approx 40 watts per cell??!!! No way....
 
3p of 18650 cells are making 7.8 A/h

Well, they could make 10.8 A/h but not likely at that price.

The seller is probably confusing capacity and power output.

So my guess is: 7.8 A/h 48v battery with a discharge BMS set to 36A
 
such deception is standard in this market segment

if you found a high quality battery it would be a miracle

one honestly described and rated even more so
 
@Bike4life, maybe you should reread your other thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=105793&p=1548148#p1548148
the same stuff applies everywhere, not just to the one you bought then.
 
Your first seller could be called confused, if we were charitable, but I think he's a liar/scammer, Just avoid these bums.

I've purchased a few batteries on ebay from Unit Pack Power, stating in 2015 when they were called elifebike. That first pack still works. Last one I bought was in late 2019, a Dolphin and I asked them to build it with LG cells, which they did for extra cost.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/U-P-P-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery-Pack-48V-20Ah-Electric-Scooter-Ebike-AKKU/253612151964?hash=item3b0c76549c:g:9qoAAOSw2VZdnXeI
 
docw009 said:
Your first seller could be called confused, if we were charitable, but I think he's a liar/scammer, Just avoid these bums.
Its a coin toss, but more then likely a liar!

docw009 said:
I've purchased a few batteries on ebay from Unit Pack Power, stating in 2015 when they were called elifebike. That first pack still works. Last one I bought was in late 2019, a Dolphin and I asked them to build it with LG cells, which they did for extra cost.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/U-P-P-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery-Pack-48V-20Ah-Electric-Scooter-Ebike-AKKU/253612151964?hash=item3b0c76549c:g:9qoAAOSw2VZdnXeI

Unit Pack Power aka UPP is good. I am in the market for a battery myself. I just wonder what their shipping time will be in these covid times. I ordered some nickel strips from fasttech on epacket shipping and they havent come yet, usually its quick but its been so long now. I got about 10 or 15Ah of 25R for 10S (36V) that I'd like to build up, then maybe purchase another 36V15Ah worth of 25R, then have a dolphin case of 15Ah.
 
bike4life said:
So do you think this is a 1kwh pack...
Are these chinese packs still good for the $$$. Is lithium just lithium in the end???

Who knows what the pack is, its a coin toss. Is it good, highly doubt it. Buy battery from a reputable seller, not some shady fwad who doesnt know what cells are being used in the pack, doesnt know the difference between a Watt-Hour and an Amp-Hour or Discharge, or C-rate.

Are you a gambler?
Do you rent or own your habitat?
 
bike4life said:
So do you think this is a 1kwh pack...
Are these chinese packs still good for the $$$. Is lithium just lithium in the end???


No.

As was pointed out before, this is a 3p pack, meaning it could be a 7.8ah pack, if it was built with proper 3.7v 2.6ah >20c 18650 cells.
Amp hours times volts is watt hours. So it would be a 374.4wh pack. -IF it was built with quality standard grade cells.

For the battery claim to be true, each cell would have to have 9230mah
There are no 18650 cells made with 9230mah capacity. There are no unicorns. Santa isn't real. Epstein didn't kill himself. It's all Lies and childish fiction.

The highest capacity 18650 cell on the market are 3500mha, and none of those would be good for a small form ebike battery due to their high internal resistance, low cycle life, low max amps, and high cost. Among those are the Samsung 35e and LG MJ1. Even Ultrafire, known for massively overstating their capacity, states on their web page they have no cells over 3500mha and any with their brand name and higher capacity ratings are fakes.

So is that battery good? The seller is a liar trying to sell to suckers with unbelievable and physically impossible capacity claims. Do you really think they would bother shipping a good product when it will never come close to meeting spec anyway? They are scamming you anyways, so they are going to go for max profit. It's common practice for those fake batteries to be made of fake cells. many are just near empty, or made of 100 to 200mah capacity cells. Others are full of sand, rocks, and tiny batteries so they "test" good voltage


[youtube]eOshOXcSkDA[/youtube]
 
bike4life said:
Is lithium just lithium in the end???
Absolutely not.

Plenty of variability just in chemical purity from their suppliers, then build quality, QA procedures.

Then the supply chain, many (most?) resellers will sell the factory rejects (grade B C or worse) as if Grade A output.

> Are these chinese packs still good for the $$$.

Cannot generalize, some are excellent. 99.9% are crap

Best to make your own or find a local builder.

You still need to find good quality cells.

Which of course are usually many times more expensive than the usual crap.
 
+1
Finding quality lithium cells is a must, and has a cost. The more power you feed, the sooner you realize of course. With a low power bike you can get away with a cheap battery, but not very far away.
 
bike4life said:
So do you think this is a 1kwh pack...
Are these chinese packs still good for the $$$. Is lithium just lithium in the end???
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1569938#p1569413

amberwolf said:
@Bike4life, maybe you should reread your other thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=105793&p=1548148#p1548148
the same stuff applies everywhere, not just to the one you bought then.
 
"Combination: 13 Series 3 and
Nominal voltage: 48V Input voltage: 48V Output voltage: 48V
After the combined capacity: 36000mAh (36Ah)"


My guess at deciphering their fake math. I think they are adding up the mAh rating of each cell to derive the mAh rating of the pack, rather than based on the number of parallel groups.

36000 mAh / 39 cells = 923 mAh per cell (like a super cheap 18650 cell)

So actual rating, with 3 parallel groups is 48V 2.7Ah. (0.923 x 3). The pack is overpriced.
 
........and knowing all that

I hope you rent.......

Here was a gambler........https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=87975&hilit=house+fire+burned#p1284081
Some Aliexpress mystery battery
 
Yes, often capacity in Ah

mAh is silly for a large pack, just used for bigger more impressive numbers

is based on the 1S cell level voltage.

kWh or Wh is a better unit for that reason.

Demand an accurate capacity claim using those, in writing

let the seller know you will be testing that claim on arrival

and exercising your warranty refund if it doesn't at least come close (given that they will use a sub-C rate, maybe even 0.1C discharge).

And make sure to use your buyer-protecting CC or at least eBay/PayPal

do not rely on AliPay alone for buyer protection.

Obviously this will at least triple the nominal pricing compared to buying based only on price

which is the fundamental flaw of these markets, catering to ignorant buyers seeking unrealisticly cheap prices.
 
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