MitchJi
10 MW
https://electrek.co/2020/07/10/new-data-shows-e-bikes-are-safer-offer-less-risk/
Ebikes are much safer than non-assisted bikes
- Thread starter MitchJi
- Start date
Note that this is from an insurer who will cover "your bike", not the Lime bike you rent at the curb with your cellular phone, and that's what their data reflects. If you got accident rates with rentals, could be a rather different story. It isn't the bicycle that gets in wrecks, it's the rider.
And it's about Europe.
And it's about Europe.
Bikmo said:
dogman dan
1 PW
Well, I was barely rolling when I got my water bottle stuck in the front wheel. Crushed my helmet hitting the curb, broke both collarbones, ruined my rotator cuffs for life.
It was my third day riding a bike unfamiliar to me. Same thing likely happens on those bike rentals. Strange bike, maybe not rode much in years, etc. For some, the learning curve of getting back on a bicycle is steeper than you expected.
It was my third day riding a bike unfamiliar to me. Same thing likely happens on those bike rentals. Strange bike, maybe not rode much in years, etc. For some, the learning curve of getting back on a bicycle is steeper than you expected.
John in CR
100 TW
While I agree that ebikes can be safer than pedal bikes, to do so requires the ability to match the speed of traffic so you can get away from the side of the road where conditions are worse as well as interact with drastically fewer vehicles. How pedalists can feel safe trusting every idiot passing them in a a 2 ton cage to see and avoid them baffles me. All it takes is one cager distracted by a message, texting, or whatever and you're done forever. The way I ride it would be difficult for a motorist to nail me even intentionally. My safety is 100% up to me, and if I got in an accident I would feel that it's my fault regardless of who is at fault from a legal standpoint.
dogman dan said:
Oh yeah. They're pretty wobbly, and to make things worse, it often seems to be a group of two or three, which I'm sure further diminishes their competence.
But "real" ebikes? not rentals, not the Europe-legal 250W rides, but the motor scooter in bicycle format that's favored by regulars here? Maybe relative safety is not really a legitimate question, because we won't necessarily take the same routes, but I'm a little skeptical of the "faster is safer" theory. Probably good to recognize that in addition to the already too high chance that motorists won't see you on a bicycle, there's now an additional risk because you'll be moving a lot faster than they expect.
MadRhino
100 GW
John in CR said:
+1
Safety on a bike is a matter of performance, and competence. Same with a horse. Riding is riding, no matter what, and riding safety relies in the response of the mount as well as the rider’s ability.
docw009
1 MW
Ebike riders tend to be a little more careful than average bike riders, making the ebikes look better statistically for safety. With time, the safety advantage you see today might go away.
markz
100 TW
I know one thing
and that one thing is a
FACT
Ebikes are much funner then non-assisted bikes
The question becomes, is funner a real word?
dictionary.com says so
and that one thing is a
FACT
Ebikes are much funner then non-assisted bikes
The question becomes, is funner a real word?
dictionary.com says so
MadRhino
100 GW
How much energy does need to be dissipated when a car hits you because you couldn’t get off its trajectory quick enough?
Faster may be not safer, but fast enough is a must. I mean, fast enough to have one more option to avoid a crash. Because, sometimes you can brake, sometimes you can ride aside of their way, but there are times when they are passing you rubbing your elbow if you are not fast enough to take the lane, and times when you have to fly out of there NOW.
And if the situation occurs, I prefer a hundred times hitting a car, to a car hitting me. Riding is like boxing you know: it does feel better to hit than being hit.
Faster may be not safer, but fast enough is a must. I mean, fast enough to have one more option to avoid a crash. Because, sometimes you can brake, sometimes you can ride aside of their way, but there are times when they are passing you rubbing your elbow if you are not fast enough to take the lane, and times when you have to fly out of there NOW.
And if the situation occurs, I prefer a hundred times hitting a car, to a car hitting me. Riding is like boxing you know: it does feel better to hit than being hit.
John in CR
100 TW
Balmorhea said:
Ah the common response of pedalists who know some science, and of course the risk in the event of an accident is greater at higher speed due to greater kinetic energy that is dissipated, however, I very firmly believe that the risk of being involved in an accident on the street mixing with vehicle at speeds that match traffic is sufficiently lower to result in greater overall safety. It goes without saying that the rider needs to possess enough competence and the right ebike, along with greater focus on the task and looking further ahead, to ride at greater speed safely. I'm obviously not talking about going faster in bike lanes and on shared use pathways where greater speed = higher risk. I'm talking about riding on the street where slow and at the side is loaded with risks while interacting with orders of magnitude higher number of vehicle with drastically less space and insufficient time or ability to maneuver to avoid motorists mistakes.
It's similar in some ways with the great helmet debate where it's common sense that a helmet offers some additional protection in a crash, so for a combination of reasons unhelmeted riders must have a lesser chance of getting in an accident, since every meaningful study on the subject shows no improvement in overall safety after helmet laws were put in place...just another scam promoted by equipment manufacturers and sellers, who've already proven their greed as demonstrated by prices of mid and high end bikes.
John in CR
100 TW
Balmorhea said:
It's not inherently so, but becomes so due to the manner in which such a large percentage ride. Crossing paths with fewer other vehicles, having greater control over those actions, having more space to maneuver, establishing your own spacing from vehicle, less debris in your path, etc all work in favor of a motorcycle over a bicycle. Hell, even opening car doors kill the most experienced cyclists as just one example of dangers slow and at the side.
MadRhino
100 GW
Stats are not always reflecting the reality. Motorcyclists die on highways and country roads, while cyclists die in cities. In the city here, a cyclist is more likely to have an accident that a motorcyclist.Balmorhea said:
And, riders have no protection in a crash. So it is much more dangerous to ride where heavier vehicles are speeding, like highways and country roads. If cyclists were riding the highways, the stats would tell otherwise.
dogman dan
1 PW
Have to agree with what John says. Along with my house burned down by an ebike, its one of the major reasons I went to the dark side. But I also wanted a lot better tires if I was going to go that fast too, and insurance in case I hit somebody somehow.
Today, sub three buck diesel has the 18 wheelers cruising at 85 mph, out here in the southwestern desert. My 70 mph scooter just wasn't cutting it anymore. Replaced it with a BMW that keeps up no problems. In my area, very very few motorcycles die on the highway in daylight. At 2 am after the bar closes, or the covid house party ends is another story. Very common to see a crotch rocket rider hit the bridge pier or a curb going 130 mph last night.
Left turn into motorcycle in town in daylight used to be fairly common. Headlight on all the time helped a lot with that. But I'm ALWAYS planning for that to happen every intersection, and slow enough to make that life saving left turn.
Back when I commuted 30 miles a day to work and back on e bikes, the only reason it was possible was the route I took had wider than usual bike lane, or was a MUP. Only about 2 miles was street sharing the road with cars, and I found a back way that eliminated the major roads for that. I did need some speed for a 1/4 mile section where I had to funnel under an interstate highway sharing the road with cars. Two stop lights, and then I was safe at any speed again.
Bottom line, when I commuted on the e bike, somebody would try to kill me almost every day. On the motorcycle, or car, its a lot more like once a month at most. I don't think it matters too much, e bike or regular bike. They just turn into your path constantly, not seeing you, or leaving it up to you to stop.
Today, sub three buck diesel has the 18 wheelers cruising at 85 mph, out here in the southwestern desert. My 70 mph scooter just wasn't cutting it anymore. Replaced it with a BMW that keeps up no problems. In my area, very very few motorcycles die on the highway in daylight. At 2 am after the bar closes, or the covid house party ends is another story. Very common to see a crotch rocket rider hit the bridge pier or a curb going 130 mph last night.
Left turn into motorcycle in town in daylight used to be fairly common. Headlight on all the time helped a lot with that. But I'm ALWAYS planning for that to happen every intersection, and slow enough to make that life saving left turn.
Back when I commuted 30 miles a day to work and back on e bikes, the only reason it was possible was the route I took had wider than usual bike lane, or was a MUP. Only about 2 miles was street sharing the road with cars, and I found a back way that eliminated the major roads for that. I did need some speed for a 1/4 mile section where I had to funnel under an interstate highway sharing the road with cars. Two stop lights, and then I was safe at any speed again.
Bottom line, when I commuted on the e bike, somebody would try to kill me almost every day. On the motorcycle, or car, its a lot more like once a month at most. I don't think it matters too much, e bike or regular bike. They just turn into your path constantly, not seeing you, or leaving it up to you to stop.
That makes sense, and then as for the statistics, your motorcyclist likely puts on more miles, over a distinctly different route. So even if someone were collecting the numbers on bicycle vs. motorcycle safety, they wouldn't mean much.
But I think we didn't really mean to go there, the motorcycle came up as an attempt to get at the question of whether faster is safer on a bicycle. What I'm seeing is two assertions, possibly from misunderstanding someone's post -
- It's safer to ride at motor vehicle speed.
- It's safer to be able to accelerate quickly, when in a position of danger.
I guess no one would argue with the latter.
In this connection, of course it doesn't matter if ebike per se, but does it matter whether you're going twice the speed anyone would expect?
I'm not saying that this principle should outweigh everyone's judgement as to what's safest in a particular situation, just that there's reason to expect higher speed will put you at higher risk in some situations, aside from just the kinetic energy problem.
But I think we didn't really mean to go there, the motorcycle came up as an attempt to get at the question of whether faster is safer on a bicycle. What I'm seeing is two assertions, possibly from misunderstanding someone's post -
- It's safer to ride at motor vehicle speed.
- It's safer to be able to accelerate quickly, when in a position of danger.
I guess no one would argue with the latter.
dogman dan said:
In this connection, of course it doesn't matter if ebike per se, but does it matter whether you're going twice the speed anyone would expect?
I'm not saying that this principle should outweigh everyone's judgement as to what's safest in a particular situation, just that there's reason to expect higher speed will put you at higher risk in some situations, aside from just the kinetic energy problem.
MadRhino
100 GW
Well, on 2 wheels lots of people are doing stupid things, and some are just not made to be a rider.
Notice that it is not the hard core riders who are at greater risk. They jump and speed risky places, crash often, but never badly hurt.
Mr Sunday rider is a target and a goat in that game. And the new rider, who begins with 80% chances of being involved in an accident in the first 4 years.
Notice that it is not the hard core riders who are at greater risk. They jump and speed risky places, crash often, but never badly hurt.
Mr Sunday rider is a target and a goat in that game. And the new rider, who begins with 80% chances of being involved in an accident in the first 4 years.
