Why fat tires on a street ebike?

C

classicalgas

100 W
Joined
May 14, 2016
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From what I can find, areo drag of a typical 4" fatty is around 2-3 times that of even a 2" MTB tire (frontal area twice that of a comfort road wheel/tire combination ) With tire/wheel drag coming second only to the rider in contributing to overall drag, fatties have to use significantly more power even at class 3 750W/ 28 mph limits. Add the increased weight of a fatty combo, and concerns about the typical light(flimsy?) construction used to keep weight down... why so many e-fatties? Since e-bike (average ) speeds are about twice that of a casual pedal bike rider, aero matters (at legal power levels)
 
In lieu of suspension

Heavy cargo use cases

Mixed road and off use cases

Looks cool
 
Best reason I can think of is about ride.

If you're concerned about the reasons they won't work, don't buy them.
 
What exactly is a street bicycle to begin with?

The first thing that comes to mind is a road/lycra bike, which I have only seen one road ebike, while waiting in line at a bicycle store a few months back. Gravel bikes have even slightly wider tires. Cruiser bikes are everywhere in terms of ebikes, and they are usually "plus" tires, like the Lux is 2.5", the normal Electra's are 2.20". Fat bikes are a fad, people buy fads, but the extra air cushions the ride. If you plan to ride river beds or rocky terrain, mud, snow or sand at any point in a journey, fat bike or plus bike yes. Strictly riding fat bike non-offroad, why??????? Fad!

I've been thinking of what my next bicycle for conversion is going to be and its going to be 26" x 2.50" rigid, a very good front suspension fork ($250+) I may have to buy 29" frame or 27.5" frame to get the extra width between the chain stays in the rear and wide fork. But use 26" if using hub motor. I maybe done with rear hub motors all together, front hub motors dont excite me for the limited trail riding, and sweat journeys of carrying bike on trails, up embankments etc.
 
If you are talking about fat bikes (tires 4-5 inch wide), the only reason to buy them to ride the streets is the look. They are a specialty, for sand, snow, loose surfaces.

Depending of the streets condition where you live, the weight and speed that you ride, the ideal city commuter ebike tire is between 1.5 and 3.0 inch, ideally wire beaded, with a carcass a tad on the heavy side. But, the choice of a bike for many, is made with other priorities than simple functional criteria.
 
classicalgas said:
From what I can find, areo drag of a typical 4" fatty is around 2-3 times that of even a 2" MTB tire (frontal area twice that of a comfort road wheel/tire combination ) With tire/wheel drag coming second only to the rider in contributing to overall drag, fatties have to use significantly more power even at class 3 750W/ 28 mph limits. Add the increased weight of a fatty combo, and concerns about the typical light(flimsy?) construction used to keep weight down... why so many e-fatties? Since e-bike (average ) speeds are about twice that of a casual pedal bike rider, aero matters (at legal power levels)
Click to expand...

Fun. That's it. They're just fun. They are pointless on the street, but fun things often are. Unicycles, Rollerskates, Horse drawn carriages... It's all just as useless and just as fun for the same reasons.
At low speeds, fat tires offer a very cushy ride, but at normal bike speeds, it's a handling nightmare on the street, and a very expensive waste of tires.
However, the aero isn't as bad as you think. A fat tire may be 3-5 times more drag than a road bike, but the tire's drag is only a small part of the overall drag when ridden, so it is hardly an issue. Keep in mind that you ride a fat bike in an upright sitting position. The biggest drag on a bike is the rider.
 
Drunkskunk said:
Fun. That's it. They're just fun. They are pointless on the street, but fun things often are. Unicycles, Rollerskates, Horse drawn carriages... It's all just as useless and just as fun for the same reasons.
At low speeds, fat tires offer a very cushy ride, but at normal bike speeds, it's a handling nightmare on the street, and a very expensive waste of tires.
However, the aero isn't as bad as you think. A fat tire may be 3-5 times more drag than a road bike, but the tire's drag is only a small part of the overall drag when ridden, so it is hardly an issue. Keep in mind that you ride a fat bike in an upright sitting position. The biggest drag on a bike is the rider.
Click to expand...

There’s a little more to it than just for fun, though it is a big part of it. I chose to build mine because I wanted a steel hard tail frame for strength but I also wanted a comfortable ride. Another reason was all weather capability. I ride year round in N.E. Ohio snow is always a possibility in late fall through early spring.

One thing that I would disagree with you about is that they are a handling nightmare. My bike is plenty stable at speed. I know it’s not the safest thing to do, but I frequently sit up and ride with no hands on long rides to give my hands a break and it’s just stable.

The way I looked at it was, any bike is a compromise. An all aero road bike would be better for range and speed but rough roads and/or trail riding would be a lot less appealing to ride. A mountain bike would have been a good choice for me except for the snowy days.
 
Walgoosed said:
...
One thing that I would disagree with you about is that they are a handling nightmare. My bike is plenty stable at speed.
Click to expand...
You don’t know speed. :twisted:
Drunkskunk has a 33 lbs DD motor, with potential power and speed that you can’t even imagine with 1000w power experience.

Fat bike tires are slow rides. Speeding safely with 4 inch tire width does require motorcycle wheels. I am sure that Drunkskunk said ‘handling nightmare’ because he has to ride his bike below its potential speed, as a compromise for his fun riding fatties.
 
You’re right. I wouldn’t classify my bike as “fast”. It will do 30+mph, but it’s no emoto like a Sur Ron. I guess what I was trying to say was that at *legal speeds (28mph or less) it’s not a handling nightmare.

I didn’t realize that to enjoy my e bike I had to take part in a pissing contest for hub weight and wattage. I’ll just suffer with my 25# motor with it’s piddling 1500 watts.
 
Walgoosed said:
You’re right. I wouldn’t classify my bike as “fast”. It will do 30+mph, but it’s no emoto like a Sur Ron. I guess what I was trying to say was that at *legal speeds (28mph or less) it’s not a handling nightmare.

I didn’t realize that to enjoy my e bike I had to take part in a pissing contest for hub weight and wattage. I’ll just suffer with my 25# motor with it’s piddling 1500 watts.
Click to expand...

There is no contest, just the fact that bicycle fat tires are dangerous to speed. As long as people know that and ride accordingly, there is no problem with them. Like was said before, they are fun and many are using them. And, everyone is free to build the bike they like, with the power and speed they like to ride.
 
MadRhino said:
There is no contest, just the fact that bicycle fat tires are dangerous to speed. As long as people know that and ride accordingly, there is no problem with them. Like was said before, they are fun and many are using them.
Click to expand...

Maybe it adds to the fun? What happens, do they squirm around and corner funny?
 
donn said:
MadRhino said:
There is no contest, just the fact that bicycle fat tires are dangerous to speed. As long as people know that and ride accordingly, there is no problem with them. Like was said before, they are fun and many are using them.
Click to expand...

Maybe it adds to the fun? What happens, do they squirm around and corner funny?
Click to expand...

They feel weak and unpredictable in fast or hard maneuvers. They float, after all it is what they are made for, to make the best ride on loose terrain. They handle better at higher PSI but then, the fun is gone and the blow-out risk high. Normal, considering their light weight/size ratio. I’d say most are baby bum skin, and even the best very expansive bicycle fat tires are very light folder construction.
 
MadRhino said:
They feel weak and unpredictable in fast or hard maneuvers. They float, after all it is what they are made for, to make the best ride on loose terrain. They handle better at higher PSI but then, the fun is gone and the blow-out risk high. Normal, considering their light weight/size ratio. I’d say most are baby bum skin, and even the best very expansive bicycle fat tires are very light folder construction.
Click to expand...

Remember that the OP was asking about fat bikes on the street where you would use higher psi. You wouldn’t use off road low pressure with any tire on the road, right? I’m not going to argue that they handle as well as a 2.3 tire, but they aren’t nearly as bad as they are being made out to be. There are high tpi street tires available as well.
 
My fat tire bike (not electrified) works great in the coastal sand, but I never plan to ride it on pavement or hard pack for any length of time. It just takes too much muscle to climb and accelerate with the big heavy tires.
- I would only electrify a fate tire bike if I needed all that rubber for sand or snow.
- I would chose a 2 in wide tire for commuting.
 
Up to 3.0 inch, some bicycle tires are available with wire bead and dual ply, pretty thick sidewall construction. I have seen a 3.25’’ some time ago, but it does seem to have disappeared. When you go 4.0 and up, they are all thin and folding type. Until a thick wire beaded clincher bicycle fat tire is made available, you’d have to step up in weight to motorcycle tires for that.
 
For those who might be interested, I have found that among all fat bike tires, the one that has the best cornering handling on pavement is the Origin8 Supercell that is about 4 lbs, wire beaded, and not expansive. Far from being as stiff as a 3.0, but relatively safe and predictable. The worst I remember was one of the most expansive and since I am not sure to remember, I don’t want to name a brand.
 
MadRhino said:
I have found that among all fat bike tires, the one that has the best cornering handling on pavement is the Origin8 Supercell that is about 4 lbs, wire beaded, and not expansive.
Click to expand...

That's the tire that has been found most satisfactory for 6-passenger pedicabs loaded up to 700 pounds per wheel or more.
 
Walgoosed said:
The Origin8 Supercells were the tires I was referring to earlier.
Click to expand...

40$ 30 tpi single ply, not a good tire by fat bike standards but, because it has a wire bead and built on the heavy side, they can be ridden pretty aggressively on pavement and, as Balmorhea noted, can bear a load.

Still not a tire for fast ebikes. :wink:
 
But, this will change eventually. Because fat bikes are popular, and some are riding them on the streets, the manufacturers are likely to offer in a near future some lower profile 4’’ wide quality tires to ride pavement especially.
 
Yeah... I hope not. Fatbikes on pavement are super dumb. They're like the new recumbent bikes-- they don't work worth a damn, but there's no convincing their middle-aged white dude market of that.
 
I got my Greenbike fat tire folder mainly for Winter riding. In warm weather it definitely feels out of its element on pavement. (Sadly, it also feels out of its element in snow.) Given the weight of those fat wheels, I may see if I can acquire the front 2" wheel and tire from the non-fat version for warm weather. I can barely lift the sucker into a car as it is. It would be great if I could get the rear wheel/motor/tire cheap as well, but that's unlikely. That wheel set weighs 8lbs less than the fat version. Why not just get the normal tire version in the first place? That bike has a controller & "display" lifted from the Seventies: colored lights embedded in hard plastic, and a whopping three PAS speeds.
 
MadRhino said:
Walgoosed said:
The Origin8 Supercells were the tires I was referring to earlier.
Click to expand...

40$ 30 tpi single ply, not a good tire by fat bike standards but, because it has a wire bead and built on the heavy side, they can be ridden pretty aggressively on pavement and, as Balmorhea noted, can bear a load.

Still not a tire for fast ebikes. :wink:
Click to expand...

They’re also available in 120 tpi. Would that be better? I know 30tpi is more puncture resistant, but 120 should be more supple and the 120 is dual compound.
 
Balmorhea said:
They're like the new recumbent bikes-- they don't work worth a damn, but there's no convincing their middle-aged white dude market of that.
Click to expand...

Whoa, there are new recumbents? Bicycles, as in 2 wheels? (Or are you talking about those crank forward things? I wouldn't restrict "recumbent" to literally laying down, but you'd have to at least be resting against a seat back. I could imagine those things as a possibility for someone to add an electric motor for a "hardly Davidson" ride where pedaling wasn't really a major part of the experience.)
 
Remember folks that bus bike racks do not fit fat bike tires. "In Calgary, a 2.50" or maybe it was a 2.25" barely fit with a shove and 45psi.

It may not phase you one bit, but when they do track maintenance here, they shut down train stations and replace the line with buses to pick up the slack. Sometimes, it can be one stop which means a 3 or 4km ride, no big deal. Other times it can be 4 or 5 train stations out of order and trains not running. Calgary also, has bike racks on only 1/4 of its busses, maybe 1/2, who knows because whatever that percentage is, theres always buses in the garage, being cleaned. Sometimes I had to wait 4 cycles on a main line with 8+ buses on that route, smaller routes, might have only one bus. Small buses dont have bike racks. Go to British Columbia, every, single, bus has a bike rack, small 5 seater bus to double length 100 seater bus.
 
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