E-bike for 2 grand ?

Hi, I am Walter and thinking about buying myself an e-bike for around 2 grand.
I never had any bike before, well, except when I was a kid nth years ago, and feel a bit lost nowadays.
So I joined the forum to get info and helpful advise from you lads.
Friend of mine build one from a kit, or better tried and failed (his frame broke, and he ended up with a broken arm!) and so I rather look for a ready solution.
Cheers, Walter

You are better off converting a pedal bike. Turn-key e-bikes usually have problems like proprietary/restricted electronic systems, poorly designed and difficult to maintain wiring harnesses, batteries slotted into confined spaces so they don’t replace or upgrade easily, and cheaper/nastier parts than the price would imply. They usually only come in one size, which makes about as much sense as pants only coming in one size. For every decently manufactured commercial e-bike I see in the bike shop, I have to deal with a dozen or more that are abysmal garbage from day one. I bet most of the decent ones would break your budget, too.

If you don’t trust your own ability to do a safe and competent conversion, get experienced help. Doing your own conversion is your best chance to get an e-bike that doesn’t disappoint. It’s also the best way to understand your bike well enough to do effective troubleshooting.

You won't get much advice here on buying ready to ride, 99% of us here are strictly DIY. I have also seen some ready to ride e bikes that are abysmal garbage. I have also rode some much higher priced than 2000 bucks that I would love to have, but not at that kind of money. I'm just cheap, and there you have it.

In any case, it would be helpful if you let us know as much as possible about your expectations/needs, and what you weigh, if steep hills will be involved, will you plan to tow kids around, etc etc. Can't even recommend a ready to ride bike without more info about your needs.

There is nothing wrong with what your buddy did, except he chose a shit bike, and or did not properly install the kit. The cheaper kits come without the thing you need to properly install btw.

I said shit bike, not cheap. A cheap steel beach cruiser with 7 gears and rim brakes can be an incredibly strong e bike frame, at under 200 bucks. For a good e bike, a strong, but pig heavy steel frame can be a plus. And nothing wrong at all with better quality aluminum beach cruisers for a conversion, such as the electra townie. ( not the one with coaster brakes though)

FWIW, a really good quality kit, with a very good battery, and reliable us based customer service after the sale, is still in the $1500 price range. That leaves just about what a townie costs in your budget.

This bike uses many of the components of the one I ride. My Magnum Metro came with a noisy motor (possibly shipping damage) but it's held together for 3,000 miles and it has many nice attributes. The bike I'm linking has more capacity, mechanical disks instead of the hydraulics on mine, but it's very similar, and about half the price the not so pleasant people at Magnum get for the same components assembled slightly differently. If you want a street-only bike, though, then this may not be quite right for you.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NCM-Moscow...var=651690363606&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



Another good option for pre-built is a company on the West coast with a large following: Rad Power Bicycles. Don't believe the power ratings for the motors, but if hills aren't a big problem in your area, they are supposed to be nice bikes, from a nice company.

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/produ...STmnoVTYt5NZJ5uIhHzKldXp4LGx0reBoC5L4QAvD_BwE

Commercial ebikes are just like normal bikes. They are available in a large variety of quality, from the cheapest to the extravagant.

Now let’s face the reality, many buyers are looking for the cheapest and have no clue about bikes, even less about electric. They are making a large market for Chinese crap ebikes, just like the bicycles are so many in the BSO category.

Then, I am not saying all Chinese bikes are sh*t, only all sh*t bikes are Chinese. To make it most confusing, all that sh*t is sold with a western name.

So, if you are buying a commercial ebike, stick with reputed bicycle brands. Western companies that had spent decades making a prestige name in the bicycle industry, are not going to destroy their reputation selling crap. They are making ebikes on reliable frames with western standard components, ranging from average to expansive.

Still, they are making high profit on them, just like they do with bicycles. Seasonal products, dealer network, branding expanses, western guarantee... You know they sell twice the price that they cost. That is why most of us are building our own.

As you saw with your friend’s experience, DIY builders are just like the buyers crowd: Lots of them are cheap and ignorants when they begin, so they are building on cheap Chinese bicycle frames. The fact is, few have some knowledge about bicycle frames, let alone the experience required for selection and inspection of a frame to build an ebike on.

WALTERM. said:

Friend of mine build one from a kit, or better tried and failed (his frame broke, and he ended up with a broken arm!) and so I rather look for a ready solution.

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You seem to attribute the frame breakage to the conversion, but that sounds like a frame that was ready to die anyway. Is there more reason to think it was the motor? You're in the US? There are laws here governing this but in most places there isn't any enforcement to speak of, so quite a range of setups, from sensible 250W to crazy stuff. Was your friend in the crazy stuff category? Are you?

WALTERM. said:

Friend of mine build one from a kit, or better tried and failed (his frame broke, and he ended up with a broken arm!) and so I rather look for a ready solution.

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Frames rarely break. DId your friend put a front motor on a suspension or aluminum fork? Lucky he only has a broken arm.

Still, most of us are DIY and cheap. I might own six motors, but they're still cheap motors.

Used bikes aren't as inexpensive as they used to be, but you can easily stay within your budget and assemble something adequate DIY. As above, you need to delineate your requirements (terrain, hilly or not, your weight, etc).

Then, I am not saying all Chinese bikes are sh*t, only all sh*t bikes are Chinese.

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No. My first bike (LA Free Sport) was from an American company, with parts made in Taiwan. It was utter crap. I see $5k bikes with no suspension and mediocre drivetrains that are just cash cows for those who sell them. At this point you have to judge a bike on its own merit, not by where it was purported to be made. Reading lots of reviews of a given model helps with that.

LeftieBiker said:

No. My first bike (LA Free Sport) was from an American company, with parts made in Taiwan. It was utter crap.

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I know almost every reputed bicycle manufacturers in the world, but never heard of LA Free Sport. Did you? Before buying one...
Many American companies are selling crap made in Asia. Reputed bicycle manufacturers too, are
using parts made in Asia, only they supervise production and quality control to meet their spec.

I have many bikes here, chosen for frame and components quality. Trek, Santa Cruz, Specialized, Yeti, Rocky Mountain... Manufacturers that had built a solid reputation, making bikes that are sold with the best guarantee of the industry, serviced by a large dealer network.

Some of the parts on their bikes are made in Asia, but they can be trusted because they have teams of engineers, and racers testing their bikes up to the podiums. When they put a new bike on the market, it’s been developed and tested over a few years and backed up by a solid replacement guarantee.

Resellers who are putting a western name on Chinese BSO, to sell in department stores and websites, are not developing nor manufacturing anything. They are only choosing colors and making stickers.

I know almost every reputed bicycle manufacturers in the world, but never heard of LA Free Sport.

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I bought it in 2000. (Sport was the model.) Back then the options were fewer, and I had a couple of specific needs, having damaged a knee riding an unassisted bike for long distances for years. I bought the bike from NYCEwheels in NYC, and when it became clear the bike had a defect (it would shut down when I tried to cross a street under power - especially a busy street) they were willing to ship me several new batteries, even though it was pretty clear to me that the primitive SLA units weren't the problem. When that didn't work, they stopped being helpful, and I was stuck with a bike too dangerous for me to ride unless I wanted to walk it across streets. It was also a mid-drive rated at something ridiculous like 750 watts, yet it barely had enough power to move without pedaling, or to climb hills in 1st. It was, in short, junk, which is why you have never heard of them. I had much better luck years later, with Chinese built EZIPs.

I think that it's a mistake to push someone who just wants to buy a bike and ride it to build one themselves. There is almost as much likelihood that a Chinese built drive train kit will have defects as there is that a better Chinese built bike will have them. Also, not everyone has the time, skill, or even just the physical stamina to build or modify an e-bike - I know that by the time I got into them, my health issues made changing a tire a challenge. Then there are the people - many, but not all of them female - who have never turned a wrench. It is downright wrong to suggest that they build or convert their own. So when someone posts here asking for advice on buying a pre-built, why not just ask if anyone can help?

WALTERM. said:

Hi, I am Walter and thinking about buying myself an e-bike for around 2 grand.

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Hi Walter, you can probably get a decent one for around 2 grand Where are you located anyway?

MadRhino said:

LeftieBiker said:

No. My first bike (LA Free Sport) was from an American company, with parts made in Taiwan. It was utter crap.

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I know almost every reputed bicycle manufacturers in the world, but never heard of LA Free Sport. Did you? Before buying one...

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Maybe it was a Giant Lafree Sport?



This guy didn't like his either:

[url said:

https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/a/64541[/url]"]
I bought a Giant LaFree Lite bike new in late 2003, and pedaled it until I broke a transmission case at about 5000 miles (aluminum casting, weak design) wore out the internal hub gears inside the back rim (around 6000 miles) then the frame broke, down near the pedals/transmission, because aluminum is weak, and weaker near a weld. That was at just over 6,000 miles. I am 5'8", average build, so am no Goliath or Superman. The bikes were just built to last a few thousand miles, tops. Altogether, in the 15 months or so I rode it to stay in shape, I was in my mid-50s, and put over 8,000 miles on it, and the battery still worked good. It showed some signs of age, but was still at about 80-90%. It seemed like 100% though, because I had gotten so much stronger over that year-plus. I'm getting the battery rebuilt now, so I can get it out and ride it some more, now that I am old and retired. (turning 69 next month!)

Looks like a bike that will snap in two like a wishbone because it has no triangle between the seat post and front yoke. Aluminum frame, too, I bet.

Fenders were designed by an idiot, who does not know how water flings off a spinning tire.

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I had just remembered, and came back to add that. Yes, it was the Giant LA Free Sport Slope I bought and regretted. Giant Taiwanese manufacturer lays giant egg...

Balmorhea said:

You are better off converting a pedal bike. Turn-key e-bikes usually have problems like proprietary/restricted electronic systems, poorly designed and difficult to maintain wiring harnesses, batteries slotted into confined spaces so they don’t replace or upgrade easily, and cheaper/nastier parts than the price would imply. They usually only come in one size, which makes about as much sense as pants only coming in one size. For every decently manufactured commercial e-bike I see in the bike shop, I have to deal with a dozen or more that are abysmal garbage from day one. I bet most of the decent ones would break your budget, too.

If you don’t trust your own ability to do a safe and competent conversion, get experienced help. Doing your own conversion is your best chance to get an e-bike that doesn’t disappoint. It’s also the best way to understand your bike well enough to do effective troubleshooting.

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the great information, I guess I have to read a lot in this forum here. But that's why I registered, to write with pros about it.
Above are all very good points, but converting is a bit of a headache, because I also don't have a regular pedal bike, so I would have to buy that one first as well.
Also, I got to get more info about the legal aspects of such conversion. I live in the UK and even after Brexit there are still all the EU regulations applicable so far. And kn owing the lawmakers here, they won't go away either, rather the opposite...

dogman dan said:

You won't get much advice here on buying ready to ride, 99% of us here are strictly DIY. I have also seen some ready to ride e bikes that are abysmal garbage. I have also rode some much higher priced than 2000 bucks that I would love to have, but not at that kind of money. I'm just cheap, and there you have it.

In any case, it would be helpful if you let us know as much as possible about your expectations/needs, and what you weigh, if steep hills will be involved, will you plan to tow kids around, etc etc. Can't even recommend a ready to ride bike without more info about your needs.

There is nothing wrong with what your buddy did, except he chose a shit bike, and or did not properly install the kit. The cheaper kits come without the thing you need to properly install btw.

I said shit bike, not cheap. A cheap steel beach cruiser with 7 gears and rim brakes can be an incredibly strong e bike frame, at under 200 bucks. For a good e bike, a strong, but pig heavy steel frame can be a plus. And nothing wrong at all with better quality aluminum beach cruisers for a conversion, such as the electra townie. ( not the one with coaster brakes though)

FWIW, a really good quality kit, with a very good battery, and reliable us based customer service after the sale, is still in the $1500 price range. That leaves just about what a townie costs in your budget.

Click to expand...

Yeah, i noticed there are a lot of gifted people here while reading a couple of topics. And at this point a big "thank you" to everyone devoting time to write it all down for us ignorant people. i pledge I will do the same after having gained a bit more experience and knowledge to help others.
I agree that I also saw a lot of dubious stuff in thebike shops so far, but also some good ones, but they are all "online" which could be a huge disappointment then.
Although I still trust a bit in the local authorities (UK) to have a bit of control about the garbage and its safety.

LeftieBiker said:

This bike uses many of the components of the one I ride. My Magnum Metro came with a noisy motor (possibly shipping damage) but it's held together for 3,000 miles and it has many nice attributes. The bike I'm linking has more capacity, mechanical disks instead of the hydraulics on mine, but it's very similar, and about half the price the not so pleasant people at Magnum get for the same components assembled slightly differently. If you want a street-only bike, though, then this may not be quite right for you.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NCM-Moscow...var=651690363606&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Another good option for pre-built is a company on the West coast with a large following: Rad Power Bicycles. Don't believe the power ratings for the motors, but if hills aren't a big problem in your area, they are supposed to be nice bikes, from a nice company.

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/produ...STmnoVTYt5NZJ5uIhHzKldXp4LGx0reBoC5L4QAvD_BwE

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for those helpful links, although I may say, that I can only drive 250 Watt engines due to the legal restrictions here in the UK. As i was told 8could be wrong) the engine support also has to stop at a speed of 25 km/h. Otherwise I would need registration and other expensive legal stuff, but worst is that I would not be allowed to drive where bicycles are allowed, so I have to have a , what they call in the EU, a PEDELEC.

donn said:

WALTERM. said:

Friend of mine build one from a kit, or better tried and failed (his frame broke, and he ended up with a broken arm!) and so I rather look for a ready solution.

Click to expand...

You seem to attribute the frame breakage to the conversion, but that sounds like a frame that was ready to die anyway. Is there more reason to think it was the motor? You're in the US? There are laws here governing this but in most places there isn't any enforcement to speak of, so quite a range of setups, from sensible 250W to crazy stuff. Was your friend in the crazy stuff category? Are you?

Click to expand...

Hi mate, sorry that I did not wrote my location, I thought the country would be displayed. I changed that now
My friend is a bit crazy, that is true, but I guess it was the conversion of an existing Aluminium "Ultralight" Bike which caused the problem.
The front fork broke, but he also drilled holes all over in it, so the kit isn't entirely to blame.
But still discouraging for me, maybe I gain a bit confidence reading or here in future.
Although good conversion kits with a good long range battery also cost already 1500,-,,,

Walter, besides here check out the UK Pedelecs forum https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/ too. Maybe find a shop near you to try a bike out.

mark5 said:

Walter, besides here check out the UK Pedelecs forum https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/ too. Maybe find a shop near you to try a bike out.

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Thanks a lot of mate, I will check there also now. Is that a sister forum ?

Not a sister forum but some members here are also there.

WALTERM. said:

Although good conversion kits with a good long range battery also cost already 1500,-,,,

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Well ... you're getting advice from people who all want more powerful motors than you do. You can get a very nice kit including 600Wh battery and wheel for US $1120, that even then you'd have to restrict somewhat to be legal. If you like doing that sort of thing, it could be nice. But for most, to be sure, it's probably a better idea to go for a factory e-bike.

You can easily have a good and serviceable ebike within your price limit.

A used bike with steel frame and fork is a good place to start. Steel has much better metal fatigue properties than aluminum, that said aluminum can work too, especially if little used. Never drill holes in a frame or fork, never.

Hub motors need torque arms, Grin in Canada sells really good ones. Direct drive hub motors have less torque at the start than geared hub motors, they are easier on the torque arms than geared hubs.

Geared hub motors are smaller and lighter than direct drive, smaller is less obvious and lighter gives a better ride and less stress on the bike, less metal fatigue, from bumps. Gears can break, they are replaceable if you can get them. Direct drive hubs are more reliable.

Front wheel drive and rear wheel drive both work, I can't feel the difference when I ride. In wet conditions rear should be less risk. Spin a rear wheel and fish tail, spin a front, especially in a turn, and crash.

Use lithium ion batteries, never fully discharge them, not ever. Better not to fully charge them too. Only fully charge maybe every tenth time. Full charging is to allow the balancing circuit to do its job. 600 Watt hours is plenty for most riding, example a 48 volt, 10 Amp hour battery has 480 Watt hours of energy, that's enough usually.

Most factory bikes have strange and bad relationships between throttle and pedal assist. That's a very unpleasant thing, higher risk of injury too. Throttle is all that's needed. Crank speed pedal assist works poorly. Torque based pedal assist is nice, but throttle is still best. Pedal and use the throttle to get the assist you want.

Bikes, most anyway, are designed for low riding speeds.

Front drive is best with a rigid steel fork. Rear drive can work well on a hard tail or a full suspension bike. Aluminum dropouts need good, strong, effective torque arms.

250 Watts is enough to give good assist to pedaling. My average speed is 20 kph, my Watts average is 131. A burst of speed to outrun an attacking dog needs more like 1500 Watts. Watt use is determined by speed and pedaling effort. Higher pedaling effort requires less Watts, higher speed uses more Watts.

36 volts is OK, 48 or 52 volts will be better because less amps are used to produce any given power output.

The Cycle Analyst Version 3 provides lots of useful information and has a cruise control function that is extremely useful.

Full suspension is really nice, it gives a gentle ride. A hardtail with front suspension and a suspension seatpost can give a good ride too.

Bikes from the 1990's are very good for conversion to ebikes.

Rim brakes work very well.

Thank you very much for this very useful Tips
Now I am a giant leap further.

Yeah, that was a good run-down. On just about everything, there'd be someone here who'd disagree with it, though, so ... you make up your own mind.

I'm not the one who'd disagree with any of it, but just to mention one thing that fell a little short -

MikeSSS said:

Use lithium ion batteries, never fully discharge them, not ever.

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The alternative I guess would be Nickel Cadmium or Sealed Lead Acid batteries ... which you aren't likely to consider as an alternative. What I think he means, though, is Lithium Cobalt, the most commonly encountered type of lithium ion battery these days, and so common that "lithium ion" may be interpreted as "lithium cobalt" if not further elaborated. The other lithium ion types are Lithium Polymer (Lipo) and Lithium Ferrous Phosphate (LiFePO4 or sometimes Life.) Lithium cobalt falls somewhere between these two - particularly in terms of hazards, Lipo is kind of reserved for people who "know what they're doing" (or think they do), and LiFePO4 on the other hand is a more robust and less hazardous chemistry.

Aluminum dropouts need good, strong, effective torque arms.

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That's an understatement.