Questions on full-suspension bicycle for large batter (20ah) and rear hub-motor ebike

So I am looking to buy a bicycle and convert it to an ebike with a kit and battery. I have never done this before. After doing a bit of research I have decided I would like to use a kit like the Violamart 48V 1500W hub motor because of its speed and quietness.

I am going to pair this motor with a triangle battery such as UPP 48V 20Ah Lithium Ion battery

I plan to use this bicycle for long trips around the city, mostly on roads or bike paths, so that is why I am looking for a full-suspension bicycle (better comfort and handling on longer rides at higher speeds) and a large battery (20ah). Disk brakes would also be a nice addition since they provide better stopping power if the road is wet.

As I mentioned, I don't have a bicycle, but I am looking to buy a full-suspension bicycle with a large triangle for mounting the battery and perhaps the controller for the hub motor as well. I have come across some that looked perfect on craigslist. These bicycles had a rear suspension design that is behind the mainframe, leaving the bicycle triangle completely open. This is exactly what I want, however I passed up on them because they had a carbon fiber seat stay/chain stay. If the rear part of the bicycle frame is carbon fiber, does this make it unsafe to mount a 1500W rear hub motor with torque arms? (I was planning to use the torque arms that come with the motor kit.)

If I am correct in my assumption that it is unsafe to do this, are there any bicycles with a large triangle frame and full suspension that are aluminum or steel? I have yet to find any in over a week of of searching.

ManBroSON said:

If I am correct in my assumption that it is unsafe to do this, are there any bicycles with a large triangle frame and full suspension that are aluminum or steel? I have yet to find any in over a week of of searching.

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Here's my shortlist. Most would be either a large or medium frame, and most depend on the year as well.

Older Giant Anthem
Older Giant NRS
Older Trek Fuel
Older Large Rocky Mountain Element
Older Large Iron Horse Maverick
Older Specialized EPIC
Older Large Kona Coiler (need to measure)
Older Turner Six Pack or 5.5 (need to measure)
Older Ellsworth Truth (need to measure)
Older ProFlex (with disc brake mounts)

Make a cardboard box the size of the before you go bike shopping and see how it fits.

I'd personally stay away from Carbon Fiber, full suspension is nice but more moving parts, more maintenance, more in repair costs but still great for ebike use. 48V battery is a good choice, don't see anything off hand on website that states discharge current but its probably 40A, so go 48V 35A or 40A controller, sensorless, buy extra throttles - try out a thumb throttle, try out a half twist. I personally like thumb, all I've ever known but others like twist half or full.

Thanks for the list of bikes and the replies. I was thinking something more like the MCR (Magic Carpet Ride) bicycle suspension would be perfect, since it is behind the bicycle mainframe. However, those bikes are way out of my price range. What I am looking for is a bike with suspension like this, but with disk brakes:
(Merida Trans Mission 2006)

[img=https://coresites-cdn-adm.imgix.net/bikemagic_new/wp-content/uploads/2004/03/merida_trans_04_side_big.jpg?fit=crop&w=640&h=414/img]

I'm looking for a bike that completely preserves the frame triangle. Apparently some of the specialized brand bicycles had this kind of suspension back in the 2000's.
Anyone know what this type of rear suspension called and why it is no longer used on new bikes?

Here's a Specialized Epic Comp bike from 2007 that looks like it would be perfect:

[img=https://www.ukclassifieds.co.uk/files/557546.jpg]/img]

ManBroSON said:

Thanks for the list of bikes and the replies. I was thinking something more like the MCR (Magic Carpet Ride) bicycle suspension would be perfect, since it is behind the bicycle mainframe. However, those bikes are way out of my price range. What I am looking for is a bike with suspension like this, but with disk brakes:
(Merida Trans Mission 2006)

[img=https://coresites-cdn-adm.imgix.net/bikemagic_new/wp-content/uploads/2004/03/merida_trans_04_side_big.jpg?fit=crop&w=640&h=414/img]

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That Merida frame looks good. Bikes in the early 2000s tended to have straight tubes, which work well with a triangle pack, compared to the curvy hydroformed frames. That one is similar to the Specialized EPIC bikes as far as suspension goes. What's interesting it that it has the Horst linkage that is Specialized's patent, which they only licensed to a few manufacturers (or were produced/stolen in countries where the patent law doesn't apply).

EDIT: Strike that, looked at the wrong picture. The Merida still looks good, just won't have the same active suspension benefits of the Horst link.

Just found this on Craigslist in my area. Its a 1997 GT-LTS-3 which has apparently had many parts upgraded. It looks exactly like what I am looking for in terms of suspension. I can easily fit a 20ah triangle battery in there. It has caliper V-brakes unfortunately, and I wanted disc brakes but I guess I am willing to compromise. I know how to change out caliper brakes so maintenance will be easier anyway, and stopping power is pretty similar in dry conditions right? Also, it has 8 gears, so I am not sure if that will work with the violamart hub motor 7 gear cassette kit. Is it possible to use the 8 gear cassette instead, or buy a different hub motor without a rear cassette? Also, what do you think in general? 1997 is very old, even with upgrades. But it looks pretty good. He is asking $325 if anyone is curious.

[img=https://images.craigslist.org/00r0r_2AeIl2wjzET_0CI0t2_600x450.jpg][/img]

Stopping power can be better with V-brakes than with discs. Controllability can be much better. But it's dependent on choice of pads, choice of levers, and expert setup.

Suspension components are deciduous, and fall out of support more quickly than legitimate bike parts. So that's a concern when buying an older suspension bike. That rear shock looks particularly special, in a not-good way.

$325 is a very good price for a used bike of that caliber, if it works.

Balmorhea said:

Suspension components are deciduous, and fall out of support more quickly than legitimate bike parts. So that's a concern when buying an older suspension bike. That rear shock looks particularly special, in a not-good way.

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What do you mean by legitimate bike parts? What is wrong with the shock?
Here's a close-up pic of the shock from the CL ad:

[img=https://images.craigslist.org/00a0a_g7Uwgz32OTv_0CI0t2_600x450.jpg][/img]

Cant buy parts for the suspension quite as easily the older the bike is.

I see. What about the fact that it is an 8 speed rear cassette? Will that cause an issue with the violamart hub motor kit (which comes with a 7-speed freewheel cassette)?

Based on my experience, 7-speed freewheel or cassette can work with 8-speed shifter/derailleur, but doesn't play well with 9-speed shifter/derailleur.

markz said:

Cant buy parts for the suspension quite as easily the older the bike is.

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They still make the shock and still rebuild them. Those shocks last forever and that one costs more than he paid for the bike.

https://www.risseracing.com/airshocks.shtml

I have the Terminator on my Santa Cruz Tazmon, and it still works great. The Tazmon was the first model made by Santa Cruz, so it's old.

Reasonably priced considering...http://www.nyxbikes.com/

ManBroSON said:

Just found this on Craigslist in my area. Its a 1997 GT-LTS-3 which has apparently had many parts upgraded. It looks exactly like what I am looking for in terms of suspension. I can easily fit a 20ah triangle battery in there. It has caliper V-brakes unfortunately, and I wanted disc brakes but I guess I am willing to compromise. I know how to change out caliper brakes so maintenance will be easier anyway, and stopping power is pretty similar in dry conditions right? Also, it has 8 gears, so I am not sure if that will work with the violamart hub motor 7 gear cassette kit. Is it possible to use the 8 gear cassette instead, or buy a different hub motor without a rear cassette? Also, what do you think in general? 1997 is very old, even with upgrades. But it looks pretty good. He is asking $325 if anyone is curious.

[img=https://images.craigslist.org/00r0r_2AeIl2wjzET_0CI0t2_600x450.jpg][/img]

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I just stumbled onto this model of bike a couple weeks ago, also interested in the triangle space and full suspension. That rear shock looked shorter than a typical 150mm to me, and I don't know if it's just some shorter design that's still standard in a funky mount. The front fork at least can be easily swapped out for one with disc brake mounts, as I've done with all 3 of my bikes. Don't worry about the rear brake, as the v-brake still works well enough. In fact, a friend and I lined up the two upright bikes side by side, counted down an emergency stop on dry pavement, and both rear wheels locked up. Neither one of us expected that, and it never happened before on these bikes. Under those conditions, there was more weight transfer to the front wheel now with the grippy B01S pads, and the rear didn't matter so much.

Let us know if you pick it up!

thundercamel said:

That rear shock looked shorter than a typical 150mm to me, and I don't know if it's just some shorter design that's still standard in a funky mount.

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Good eye. 100mm for the '97, and it looks like pre-'95 was only 75mm.

https://risseracing.com/gt.shtml

Strictly speaking on the "Bicycle" aspect of the LTS, that was imo one of the best functioning suspension setups of its era with the exception of, of course,longer travel DH bikes

The frame was stiff and geometry was spot on. Still a great riding bike even to this day

V brakes are fine...entry level shimano or avid generally stop as well or better than most 160mm discs aside from wet or muddy conditions . You won't have quite the modulation of the best hydraulic setups and my biggest negative is that given time you will wear braking surfaces on rims. The voilamart wheels are not the best so if you don't already know how to true wheels, you will sooner rather than later and changing a rim will makes sense to you

I collect vintage and had a mint Team LTS with spin composite wheels that got "lost" in a move a few years back and it still kills me to this day. I have over 30 bikes and it took me months to unpack so by then it was too late to do much

The bikes that were mentioned above were all pretty solid choices. I'm trying to think of any others reasonably priced that used a suspension that didn't occupy any of the triangle And there aren't too many that came to mind. The only thing you may be giving up with that is a bit of rear travel compared to some of the others but I mean as far as future-proofing, you could fit a 72-volt triangle pack in that frame with room to spare

There is an easier solution. Long tail bike. The long tail puts your seat midway between the wheels, instead of your ass right over the rear wheel like normal. Instead of feeling every bump jarring your ass, you sit in the middle and your saddle just rocks back and forth.

and now you not only have a big ass triangle to put a battery in, you have a big cargo deck you can carry another 20 ah on. Or just all your groceries. For city riding, its very very hard to beat a good cargo bike.

A nice yuba mundo is pricy though, but if you have the tiniest bit of welding skills, you can build your own cargo bike by lengthening a cheap ass beach cruiser. Bolt on extenders can be made with even less welding. See the threads in my signature.

And, you just might try a cheap 7 speed steel beach cruiser to start with. The ride on them is not that bad, even at stock length. Might be all you need is one of those.

I have 662 miles on a 1997 Mongoose FS bike, they were bike shop bikes back then, not Walmart bikes. Rear hub motor is a geared, 12 turn, MAC, torque arms are home made, on both sides and total a bit over a half inch thick. These torque arms also act as wheel retention, but the side nuts are used too.

Controller is 12 FET, and is used with a Cycle Analyst V3 set on 30 amps max.

Battery is 52v, 14s, 8p, 20ah, 1040wh.

There is no front triangle to mount the battery in. I tried the battery in a bag on top of a seat post rack. This is a very convenient way to carry the battery but resulted in the front wheel coming off the ground and swinging wildly to the side when stopped on steep inclines and when I was hopping trying to get the feet on to something to stand on. Next I tried mounting the battery on top of the "top tube", it helped some but looked really bad and destroyed stealth. Finally I mounted the battery on the left side, where a front triangle would be if there was one. The mount hangs from the "top tube", the battery sits in a cradle and is held to the tubes by a strap. A pedal extender is used on the left pedal. Total battery offset to the left is about 3.25".

The last battery mounting turned out to work very well. When riding, the three battery positions all feel the same, the difference is when stopping on a climb and when hopping around to get footing. The bike weighs perhaps 50lb, the rider is 200lb, off setting the 12.2lb battery by 3 1/4" is not even noticed when riding and when stopped. Now the battery weight is between the wheels, not mounted over the back wheel. If I lift the front wheel the bike does not try to go over backward, rotating around the rear axle.

This year I also have 1200 miles on a pedal forward rigid bike, using a DD front hub motor, a 13.5ah, 48v battery mounted in a rack bag and also using a suspension seat post.

Both bikes ride very well, both are set up for an upright rider position, it's fun to push both pretty hard. Rider position is better on the pedal forward bike and so is seat to crank relationship. The big difference and it's big, is the FS bike has a much better ride over bumps. I'm 74 and preventing shock damage to the spine is important to me.

I too looked at the GT and Specialized FS bikes that had open or semi open front triangles. I'd rather have one of those but the Mongoose FS has served me well for over 10 years and it turns out that it makes a good host bike for a rear hub motor.

Almost all miles are on a bike path. There are some street miles and very few off road miles. I'd love to do more off road but anti tire thorns are everywhere here in San Antonio.

Range with the 20 Ah battery is theoretically around 110 miles, I've done 50 mile rides and not come close to using all the battery. Average speed is 11.9 mph over 662 miles, avg mi/ah is 5.25, average mi/volt is 6.94, avg wh/mi is 11.89, average mi/ride is 31.4, watts average is 129, amps average is 6.0.

Riders of fast electric scateboards, One Wheels and electric unicycles like a Gotway, do about 23mph, I can pace them. Fast roadies and mtb guys also run around 23mph. The bike can do 25 mph but I've only done that once. It is a 12T motor, a 10T would be a bit faster top end, but probably a bit less efficient at very low speeds.

I use the cruise control function for about 90% of my miles. It works at 0.5 mph when walking the bike up a steep off road section, it also probably works up to top speed. I thought I'd never use it, turns out it is very useful to prevent myself from playing road racer.

Edit to add: my average max watts is 1407w, highest max watts is 1778, this probably came from chasing down a roadie on a climb. It's so hard to resist doing that, sometimes it just happens. Also, it's really bad to grab the wheel of a fast guy and sit on him. They start to make mistakes and you might be the reason for a mishap. For that matter, when I do that I'm probably going anaerobic and getting close to making my own mistakes.

Hope this helps

MikeSSS said:

I use the cruise control function for about 90% of my miles. It works at 0.5 mph when walking the bike up a steep off road section, it also probably works up to top speed. I thought I'd never use it, turns out it is very useful to prevent myself from playing road racer.

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Cruise control has taken the place of PAS for my non-throttle option. It's like PAS, with an option to pedal. Get to a small hill, the motor gives a little more power, you pedal a little harder, or not. Just pedal until you see the watts drop to where you want, to extend your range. I always thought is was a novelty, but I haven't used PAS in a month, so it's throttle or cruise now. :thumb:

I procrastinated too long and it sold yesterday. Going to still keep an eye out for options.