#boosted said:On average, how much battery capacity is lost every year with a ebike lithium ion battery? What if its stored properly every year for a few months and kept indoors? How many years can I expect out of it?
markz said:It all depends on how you treat the battery.
- Depth of discharge, do you use 5Ah of a 15Ah battery or do you use it all.
- Charge rate, 1A charge or 10A charge
- Do you use battery in the cold
- How battery are stored, temperature and voltage
- The biggest aspect is how many amps are you pulling from the battery, say you got a 40A bms on the battery but you got a 20A controller. You aint working the battery hard at all so it will last longer.
#boosted said:On average, how much battery capacity is lost every year with a ebike lithium ion battery? What if its stored properly every year for a few months and kept indoors? How many years can I expect out of it?
#boosted said:markz said:It all depends on how you treat the battery.
- Depth of discharge, do you use 5Ah of a 15Ah battery or do you use it all.
- Charge rate, 1A charge or 10A charge
- Do you use battery in the cold
- How battery are stored, temperature and voltage
- The biggest aspect is how many amps are you pulling from the battery, say you got a 40A bms on the battery but you got a 20A controller. You aint working the battery hard at all so it will last longer.
#boosted said:On average, how much battery capacity is lost every year with a ebike lithium ion battery? What if its stored properly every year for a few months and kept indoors? How many years can I expect out of it?
In my case, it's used between the temperatures 45-95f and discharged to around 20% then recharged 100. Kept at 50% charge when in storage 65 degrees f. I use this battery roughly twice a week in the summer, if not more.
Why is a FULL charge better than 90%, and recharging as necessary to 90% over the winter months ?dogman dan said:FWIW, 3 -10 miles daily use is a really good use pattern for longevity. long storage of bms equipped packs problematic.
About two years of use is nearly certain, provided you do store it full for a bms equipped battery. Meaning top it up at least monthly over the winter. Non bms storage is different, store that half full.
eMark said:Why is a FULL charge better than 90%, and recharging as necessary to 90% over the winter months ?
Why not store bms equipped battery just half full and recharge to 3.70V as necessary over winter ?
Is there a Battery University link or article supporting a FULL storage charge (w/BMS) over winter ?
Can imagine U in your element removing the cells from a junk Chevy Volt ... that's reluctant to relinquish them to U.DogDipstick said:I have a battery ..... that I got out of a junkyard at 5 years old, ran for 3 years about, and still has 100% capacity ( well, more than 100%.. 105% aboot) and I have done nothing but blind charge to 101%, no BMS, store fully charged, used to great DOD, > 70% discharged on average, and charge freexzing, or hot, or wet, or dry ..... Will not die.
DIY common sense would build it so the BMS is easily accessible when need be: Disconnecting, Checking or Replacing.john61ct said:Some BMS have no significant draw when properly shut down.
Others can completely Murder a pack in just a few weeks, and may do so in an unbalanced way.
No one ever challenged this January 2021 post so many assumed this was good advice/practice to maintaining battery capacity. dogman dan is very knowledgeable -- so why would anyone disagree with full storage SoC with BMS battery?dogman dan said:About two years of use is nearly certain, provided you do store it full for a bms equipped battery. Meaning top it up at least monthly over the winter. Non bms storage is different, store that half full.
So are you implying when BMS equipped its better to charge to 95% SoC when in storage for a few months? Neither john61ct or DogDipstick disagreed with the above Full SoC recommendation by dogman dan for winter storage with a BMS equipped battery and half full (50% SoC) without a BMS.fechter said:To get long life, avoid the things that kill batteries. Main thing is not to discharge them completely as much as possible. Most of my rides leave about 50% left at the end. I charge just before riding and charge to about 95%. Excessively high charge and discharge rates kill them fast too. Most likely heat related.
Stealth_Chopper said:The best answer to your question that I have read are the test data results here:
Is BMSs problematic discharge tendency possibly why dogman dan believes a Full SoC for winter storage and keeping it there when a BMS equipped battery is preferred rather than a 50% SoC ... which is ok when a battery has no BMS ?dogman dan said:About two years of use is nearly certain, provided you do store it full for a bms equipped battery. Meaning top it up at least monthly over the winter. Non bms storage is different, store that half full.
Yes I did, just now.eMark said:No one ever challenged this January 2021 post so many assumed this was good advice/practice to maintaining battery capacity. dogman dan is very knowledgeable -- so why would anyone disagree with full storage SoC with BMS battery?dogman dan said:About two years of use is nearly certain, provided you do store it full for a bms equipped battery. Meaning top it up at least monthly over the winter. Non bms storage is different, store that half full.
...
Neither john61ct or DogDipstick disagreed with the above Full SoC recommendation by dogman dan for winter storage with a BMS equipped battery and half full (50% SoC) without a BMS
Sunder said:Yes, the reason BMS equipped batteries should be stored with a higher state of charge is because the BMS draws power from the pack. That's all. Having a BMS does not change the chemical reactions going on inside the battery.
Ideally, you'd store it with 50% charge and check it often enough that you didn't let it drop down below 30%. But that's not human nature.
john61ct said:But combining that with being being knowledgeable, attentive and disciplined, developing a checklisted routine with scheduled reminders is better yet.
Caring for expensive LI packs is a bit like having a puppy not just a piece of inert property you can put away and forget.
eMark only has 842 posts ... Thus believe dogman dan must be correct as no one had disagreed since 1/2021. No one to date has disagreed with his advice of maintaining a full charge for a BMS equipped battery during winter storage. Is his advice actually tongue-in-cheek what not to do ??????dogman dan said:About two years of use is nearly certain, provided you do store it full for a bms equipped battery. Meaning top it up at least monthly over the winter. Non bms storage is different, store that half full.
I have sent a PM hoping for clarificaton if he really meant that a BMS equipped Li-ion battery should be fully charged during winter storage. Meaning top it up at least monthly over the winter.dogman dan said:My experience is that nobody uses or stores a battery the way NASA would use a battery in a spacecraft. So real world use is much harsher. Often too hot in summer, or too cold in winter, and with a bms, storing it full or nearly full all the time.