Stop-a-flat tubes

gnuorder

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Jun 16, 2020
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9
Anyone have any experience with these on an ebike?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stop-A-Flat-Puncture-proof-Thorn-resistant-No-flat-Bicycle-Tubes-26-x-1-95/143976471114?epid=691390233&hash=item2185aa9a4a:g:pvQAAOSwpqFgS~1F

I was originally going to use puncture resistant tires and tubes which adds up quick and can still fail. I'm considering using one of these for at least the wheel with the motor and use any cheap tire. I've heard from reviews online that warn against using them with old tires as they fit loose but with new tires they are really tight. I also hear they have extra friction when peddling but this will be in the rear with a motor so I don't think that will effect me much. I mostly worry as they wear, the wheel will spin inside the tire and I wont go anywhere. I'll use a regular tube and puncture resistant tire on the front as it is easy to repair. These would be better with an air bladder inside to make sure it's tight.
 
Sealant has been invented, no point in putting heavier stuff that something long enough will still poke through. I have impossibly thin tires with some Slime sealant in them and I go not only off road but off trail too. Sealant doing it's job perfectly.
 
There is lots of info if you search for it, Stop-A-Flat has been discussed countless times.

Some do their own custom setup using an old tire and an old tube to slip between the tire and tube that your using.

Others have went to motorcycle and moped rims, tubes and tires. Problem is non of those correlate to bicycle diameters, and rim
brakes wont work.

There are tires with added width, Schwable for example.

There are other brands of tire inserts for no flats.

Others rave about tubeless.
 
Tommm said:
Sealant has been invented, no point in putting heavier stuff that something long enough will still poke through. I have impossibly thin tires with some Slime sealant in them and I go not only off road but off trail too. Sealant doing it's job perfectly.

Second vote for Slime or similar product....
 
I've never used slime but both our mt bikes are set up tubeless. In several years I've only had 1 flat, which I didn't even notice until the day after the ride. Pulled out the thorn, added a little more sealant, pumped it back up, and it was good to go.
 
I've been riding ebikes in the deserts of Az and Mex. for 10 years and have dealt w/ more flats than I care to remember, but no more.
I have tried every method:
sealant - never works and makes a mess
No-flat tube - Rode like a truck - maybe good for a kid w/ endless leg strength
Ghetto tubeless - Works, but still gets flats - they have sealant inside, but it won't really plug the hole, but you can see where it is and go after it w/ a tiny bicycle plug kit and a CO2 inflater. Plus, it's pain to install, even w/ practice, it takes me a hr.
Liners - Haven't tried one, but there are plenty of posts here where they have chaffed thru the tube.

By far, the best solution is a flat-resistant tire like the Schwalbe Marathon and thorn-resistant tube. Both Kenda and Giant offer them;
https://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/kenda-thorn-resistant-tube?v=1212000&adl=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAhbeCBhBcEiwAkv2cY2maljL9d1E5sh8o9xR9bJe04D9TC3fSMJgo41T-_Rhd2PKl3_NNDxoCvWQQAvD_BwE

The only downside to this approach, w/ the extra rubber where it meets the road, makes the tire feel a little squimy, but one gets used to it.
No flats for the last two years, "knock on wood".
 
Quite a bit of discussion of the basic idea of airless / airfree "tires" and "tubes" over the years, of many different kinds

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=airless&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=air*+free*&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

There are intermediate versions (which I haven't tried yet) that just have a partial insert for "run flat" operation, and those at least won't beat the crap out of your wheels like the full versions do.

I've used various "solid tires" on different regular pedal bikes and cargo bikes over the years, as well as a trailer that used solid wheelchair wheels, and a couple of ebikes (and an etrike) and all of them damaged wheels, bending rims and breaking spokes, because the wheels were designed for the pneumatic tube/tire to help the wheel do it's thing, and without that, road bumps and holes direclty transfer all the force into the small part of the rim directly over the contact patch, isntead of distributing it around the whole wheel...which the wheel isn't designed to take so it eventually falls apart. :( They also destroyed tires, usually separating the wire in the bead from the tire, sometimes poking this out and winding it in teh spokes or getting it into the chain. :(

So I gave up on those quite a while ago and just use thick tires, with thick tubes, and at least one old thick tube with the valve stem cut off and the tube slit circumferentially around the inside so it can be slipped over the actual tube being used. Then a slime protector strip (of whatever brand) between the tire and the tube assembly.

Then be sure to keep air pressure up, because if you run a setup like taht at low pressures, the strip will migrate around the tire and either end up damaging the tire or tube, or just wiggled like a squiggly snake from one sidewall to the other, leaving large sections of the tread unprotected.

Even on my cargo bikes and trikes, I typically don't have to fix flats on those before the tires wear out and have to be replaced. :)

There are rare exceptions (usually one every couple years for me, sometimes less often), because we have paloverde, mesquite, and other thorn trees and bushes around here that get used as shade trees along roads, in parking lots, etc., and they all break stuff off easily in storms, so there can be stuff an inch long laying around where you can't see it until PSSSSSSSSsssssssss....thunkthunkthunkthunk. :( They're pretty hard and VERY pointy, so they will even go thru tire liners. If there's enough rubber thickness they'll immobilize the thorn and it wont' leak much until you pull it out, but if the tire flexes a lot it'll leak every rotation PS PS PS pSs PSss Psss as the rubber flexes around the thorn.

Slime will help with that, but eventually you lose enough air the thorn can now be pushed thru the *inside* wall of the tube, up to the rim, and the slime isn't up there, so it'll finish itself off pretty quick at that point.

If you don't use slime or other sealants, then you can stop as soon as you realize there is a problem, remove the thorn, and patch the tube, but if you have slime / etc in there and it doesn't stop the leak then it's nearly impossible to get a good patch roadside cuz it's very hard to clean the slime off around the hole enough for good patch grip. :(
 
Very good tubeless kits are available for common mtb racing tire sizes. Foam insert, tubeless valve and sealant in a kit ready to mount. Look for Cush Core, my favorite. They won’t guarantee absolute flat proofing, but you will be able to complete the ride home even in the worst case scenario. Most of the time you won’t notice that you had a puncture because the sealant will plug it instantly. And, they ride better than tubes because they let you ride lower PSI for better grip and small bumps compliance. Expansive, and ideally require a special pump, CO2 inflator or tank compressor to mount the tire. Not available for all rim/tire sizes and width, they are racing specialty but the very best if you ride compatible tire sizes. I love them on my dirt bike, but not using them on my city commuter because of tire size.
 
I got so sick of mesquite thorns in my tires, I did run those for awhile recently. They sucked, particularly on the rear tire, which squeaked and squirmed like crazy. But I did not get flats anymore. The ones I had could only work on a 2 inch tire. even 2.1 inch was too big causing problems. But,, I did get free from thorns for a time.

On street, I have had huge nails and such ruin tires in as little as 1 mile. That's how it is on the roads where I live.

But if you don't live next to the metal recycle place as I do, and you don't live where mesquite thorns are everywhere on trails, then a good tire, and the thick tubes should do for you. The thick tubes really do withstand nearly all other thorns, like goatheads.

I have not tried tubeless, but can definitely see how they would be great off road, no ripped off stems if you run lower psi. I still get so many flats I run 50 psi, so maybe I have 20 at the end of a longer ride. Soon as I start to ride in the mountains, I put two new tubes on the bike, and remove about 50 thorns from the tires. Only slime gives me a chance in the thorn trails.
 
Guess I'm living the dream in socal where I've had only two or so flats in the past year riding four times a week (discovered the next day, not hindering the ride). However when my friends ride in the desert, everybody must have Stan's or equivalent tubeless systems to be allowed in the group so that nobody gets left behind.
 
LewTwo said:
markz said:
There are other brands of tire inserts for no flats.
Tanous Armour
https://tannus.com/armour/

Tannus' products are sold at a lot of bike shops here in Utah, as we live in a goathead riddled nightmare, and Tannus' headquarters are here also.

From what i have heard from local bike shop employees is that they add a wobbly feeling to the bike's handling that is unpleasant. They generally swear by stans no tubes.

I swear by motorcycle tires for my ebikes because the hardness and additional thickness of rubber prevents a goathead from hitting the tube exceedingly well. Now, only construction scrap is my worry.
 
neptronix said:
Tannus' products are sold at a lot of bike shops here in Utah, as we live in a goathead riddled nightmare, and Tannus' headquarters are here also.

From what i have heard from local bike shop employees is that they add a wobbly feeling to the bike's handling that is unpleasant. They generally swear by stans no tubes.
H'mmmmm .... I am going to find out. I got a pair for my "grocery getter".

Can not be as bad as the wobblies I get from pinch flats (houston pavements are crap).
They are 'supposed' to protect the rims as well.
 
I think you'd be the first to provide some experience on their products on this forum, so i'd like to hear your results.
 
LewTwo said:
They [airless tires] are 'supposed' to protect the rims as well.

They don't.

A pneumatic tire suspends the rim around its entire perimeter, and transmits riding forces to the whole wheel relatively evenly. A foam tire only carries forces to the small section of rim directly above the tire's contact patch. That tends to flat spot the rim, cause spokes to loosen, and put the wheel in an early grave.

Tannus Armour (a thick foam tire liner) is more promising, because it combines some of the benefits of a foam tire and a pneumatic tire.

Tannus-armour-product-image-1.jpg
 
Tannus inserts are popular here and sold in many local bike shops because they are cheaper and don't require going tubeless. Cush Core and Tannus are very different foam insert systems. Tannus is lining the tire and use a smaller tube on the rim, Cush Core is lining the rim and the tire is tubeless. My experience is that Tannus are better flat proofing but a turn-off for ride quality, while Cush Core are really improving ride quality and able to ride on a flat very reliably.
 
Chalo said:
LewTwo said:
They [airless tires] are 'supposed' to protect the rims as well.

They don't.

A pneumatic tire suspends the rim around its entire perimeter, and transmits riding forces to the whole wheel relatively evenly. A foam tire only carries forces to the small section of rim directly above the tire's contact patch. That tends to flat spot the rim, cause spokes to loosen, and put the wheel in an early grave.

Tannus Armour (a thick foam tire liner) is more promising, because it combines some of the benefits of a foam tire and a pneumatic tire.

I am not referring to the airless tires but rather the App Armour liners.
I should have been more clear about that.

Even I will not fall for the airless tire gag.
 
LewTwo said:
Chalo said:
LewTwo said:
They [airless tires] are 'supposed' to protect the rims as well.
A foam tire only carries forces to the small section of rim directly above the tire's contact patch. That tends to flat spot the rim, cause spokes to loosen, and put the wheel in an early grave.

Tannus Armour (a thick foam tire liner) is more promising, because it combines some of the benefits of a foam tire and a pneumatic tire.

I am not referring to the airless tires but rather the App Armour liners.
I should have been more clear about that.

Got it. Tannus has made airless tires for longer than Armour liners, so that's what I thought you were talking about.

Please do check back in with your impressions after putting some miles on them.
 
I was in Walmart last nite and they are carrying a new extra thick tube from Goodyear. Not as thick as a thorn resistant tube, but real nice quality and only $7.
 
Sorry for the late reply. I was sick for a week, then forgot my password. Great ideas. Workers at local bike shops and co-ops recommend against the slim tires. I'll probably go with the puncture resistant tubes and tires for now and if I have a problem, I'll give the Tannus armour or cush core a try.
 
I have had Slime tubes burst not long after installation, so disheartening. I sure dont want the front tire doing that at full speed. I wonder how tubeless front wheel, and backwheel with tube and armour liner might ride? I even thought about spraying can foam inside a wheel. Seems like a bulletproof tube should be high on the list for bike companies.
 
MxusMick said:
I have had Slime tubes burst not long after installation,
burst where on the tube, and how specifically did they fail?
 
I definitely burst my first tube I put FlatOut in too. The instructions mistakenly tell you to reinflate to the usual pressure after. Nowadays I run both tires with tubes with FlatOut with half the previous pressure and went from 3 flats a year to none.
 
I popped two in a row, probly over aired them(Slime tires). I was using a tire from Walmart that was folded up and had no sidewall support, which I returned immediately but lost out on the tubes. The tubes burst unpatchable holes and slimed everything.
 
My first attempt at FlatOut, heh:
PXL_20221006_214933347.jpg
PXL_20221006_214923145.jpg

Could be the OEM tubes were cheap and thin as well. I upgraded to ones that are still cheap and from China, but at least claim to be thicker:
https://amzn.to/3HBhtcP

Maybe it would be possible to use motorcycle tubes as the next step up in durability. I've heard of people using motorcycle tires, although the size is measured differently.
 
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