When you make bonehead errors when lacing a NuVinci for use with BBSHD

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kiltedcelt   100 W

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When you make bonehead errors when lacing a NuVinci for use with BBSHD

Post by kiltedcelt » May 12 2021 11:37pm

TL;DR - pay attention so you don't have to lace your wheel over again. Wow, what a rookie mistake.

So I bought a NOS N171 hub to use on my full-fat tadpole tandem trike powered with a BBSHD (and of course two tandem riders), and in the documentation from the N171 manual they call for 1-cross lacing, OR 2-cross ONLY if spokes will not enter the spoke nipples at too much of an angle. I'd ordered spokes after running everything through FreeSpoke and came up with 200mm spokes - interestingly the spokes were only 6mm off from what NuVinci recommends. The rims are 559 Origin8 80mm fat bike rims - double rows of spoke holes. The ERD from the Weinmann website (the actual makers of the rim list it as 536 versus 546 or 547 ERD listed as general values in NuVinci documentation. Anyway, I laced this wheel up 1-cross to light tension and it looks like it'll work, but it's the weirdest damned wheel I've ever laced (excluding offset Pugsley wheels). So everything works out where there is one skipped row of spoke holes between each group of drive/non-drive spokes (see the photos). It looks like it's a stable and strong layout but I think this is probably the only time I've ever done a 1-cross build with a high flange hub and on a fat bike rim with the double spoke holes. All the other wheels I've ever built were always 2 or 3-cross, so this is kind of new to me. Anyone got any advice on this? Does it look acceptable to anyone else who has experience with a similar build?

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Last edited by kiltedcelt on May 13 2021 1:58am, edited 1 time in total.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: WEIRD!! NuVinci N171 for use with BBSHD - weird lacing?

Post by Chalo » May 13 2021 12:23am

Hub motor flanges are narrowly spaced, and the spacing between double row drilling on fatbike rims is wide. The resulting lateral bracing angle is not good if you lace the spokes to the same side of the rim. When I build them, I lace across to the opposite side of the rim when it's feasible.

Your lacing pattern looks workable, but it leaves longer unsupported spans of rim than if you staggered the spokes evenly (so it will probably be weaker). If you like the look of it, there's no overriding reason to lace conventionally. Just make sure the loosest spokes in the pattern are tight enough.
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kiltedcelt   100 W

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Re: WEIRD!! NuVinci N171 for use with BBSHD - weird lacing?

Post by kiltedcelt » May 13 2021 1:56am

Never mind - figured it out. Don't know why it wasn't more obvious to me, but the non-drive side was one whole set of holes off in how it should've been laced. I unlaced the rim and did it over and now it looks normal to me, or at least as normal as double spoke hole rims *can* look. I always think they look a little weird since they're so wide and you're not lacing down a single row in the middle. Anyway - just goes to show ya - pay attention when lacing to make sure it looks normal before messing the whole thing up and having to do it over.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: When you make bonehead errors when lacing a NuVinci for use with BBSHD

Post by MadRhino » May 13 2021 4:17am

I wonder why they drilled the rim 72h. I see no reason for that, other than confusing you into lacing a wrong pattern.
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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: When you make bonehead errors when lacing a NuVinci for use with BBSHD

Post by Chalo » May 13 2021 10:24am

MadRhino wrote:
May 13 2021 4:17am
I wonder why they drilled the rim 72h. I see no reason for that, other than confusing you into lacing a wrong pattern.
It's 64 hole. Having two full sets of spoke holes gives options that allow you to avoid problems like extreme dish, inadequate bracing angle, chain rub on the tire, etc.
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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: WEIRD!! NuVinci N171 for use with BBSHD - weird lacing?

Post by Chalo » May 13 2021 10:27am

kiltedcelt wrote:
May 13 2021 1:56am
Never mind - figured it out. Don't know why it wasn't more obvious to me, but the non-drive side was one whole set of holes off in how it should've been laced.
Whoops. I thought you'd done that on purpose to accommodate a different spoke length or for some other reason. Glad you figured it out. You would have run into insoluble problems when you went to tighten the thing up that way.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

kiltedcelt   100 W

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Re: When you make bonehead errors when lacing a NuVinci for use with BBSHD

Post by kiltedcelt » May 13 2021 11:51am

I guess I wasn't entirely clear - I can't remember having ever laced a 1x wheel before and I've made a LOT of wheelsets. I kept thinking this was some weird thing as the result of 1x and really short spokes. It was as simple as moving all the non-drive spokes backwards one hole. Don't know why/how I got so far lacing it up and then couldn't figure that out. I think thrown by the 1x thing and also spokes being only on one side of the flange per NuVinci instructions. At any rate it's fixed now, but I've forever tarnished my wheel-building reputation. :roll:

kiltedcelt   100 W

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Re: When you make bonehead errors when lacing a NuVinci for use with BBSHD

Post by kiltedcelt » May 13 2021 11:54am

MadRhino wrote:
May 13 2021 4:17am
I wonder why they drilled the rim 72h. I see no reason for that, other than confusing you into lacing a wrong pattern.
Surly Pugsley fat bikes have offset frames that use 135mm hubs front and rear and to achieve the wheel fitting in the frame and the chain clearing the tire, the front and rear wheels (they can be swapped front to back), are all laced to the drive-side set of holes. Now with symmetrical lacing of rear hubs with 170/190mm spacing there's no need for double holes, hence so many fat bike rims that only have a single row of holes.

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