Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

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markz   100 GW

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Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by markz » Jul 28 2021 7:28pm

Threaded BB
3 Piece bottom bracket
Square taper
90mm Shell
Nut style retainer for crank arms, not bolt
16.26mm diameter axle (in the middle)

Bent my bb on a fall on the crank side. At first I thought just the crank bent, but I replaced crank to confirm it has a 3-4mm wobble from small gear to edge of bb shell and the 'bent-in' side is on the pedal side. Pics taken and its noticeable.

When taking the BB apart, I took the axle to a straight edge and its obviously bent. Pics taken and its noticeable.

Weight wise, 52V 14.5Ah Grin battery on top of top tube, another battery in the triangle 36V 20Ah, controller on top tube.
I am 325lbs. Fell onto crank side, bent basic outer metal pedal edge inward, got me a big ole scab, even bigger bruise and road rash on the top part and its taken 1 month to get to red.

I took lots of pictures.

Its got the threaded cups on either end, took an adj wrench to take off the drive side, and the cup came out with greased bearing ring inside then I took the axle itself out with the bearing ring on the axle, I left the other side cup on. Looks good that there's lots of grease in there. I was concerned when undoing the threaded cup because lots of sandy bits came out. Looked inside the BB and it wasnt to bad. Did the usual WD40 and paper towel to clean it all up.

One option I thought of is to buy a mid drive bb from Cyclone Taiwan which comes in square tapered 68-120 and use it on my front hub ebike. Luna has both styles of bb axle in 68-100. But if I go that route, might as well install my Cyclone 4kw.

I see 80mm shell width come in cartridge, some proprietary Trek's come close to 90mm, can't find no cartridge for 90mm shell. All I can find for 3 pc's are 68 shell widths.

What do you figure, where to buy a 3pc bb with 90mm shell and 175mm? 195mm? axle (do you count the threads or just end of tapers.
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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by Chalo » Jul 28 2021 8:49pm

Most square taper spindles are hard enough that they won't bend like yours did. They snap off. (Ask me how I got my fancy gold teeth.)

You're now on the receiving end of a nonstandard BB standard. This is why we can't have nice things.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274694554463
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by markz » Jul 29 2021 3:11pm

Do you see any problems with the "?stock bb?" being 90x175mm and that ebay one being 90x142?
I bought the bike used, might not be an original bb or original 1x crank, I also learned the previous owner had installed a 160 rear hub (bolt on) on a 180 rear dropout that he shoved a bolt underneath the axle to space the disc from caliper because the adapter didnt have concave spacers and when I reinstalled wheel after flat the disc hit rotor not knowing the bolt fell out. I had a 170 rear hub wheel I installed with QR. So I guess the whole chainline question is irrelevant until I get a proper 180 rear hub wheel. Both sides bend inward when tighting the rear wheel, I just make sure disc side is flush then squeeze in gear side, not sure which way I did it in the pic as the bike is now no rear disc installed.

142 vs 175 would bring the crank gear inward I'd assume 16.5mm (87.5-71) compared to the rear 7 gear freewheel.
It looks like the big chain ring does need to come in to be in the middle of the rear freewheel.

I tried to get a good pic of the chainline. Yea its a 3x spare I have, the 1x icame with the bike. Who knows if the stock crank was original.

I hammered the axle back a bit but I wont pedal until its replaced. :mrgreen:



Best pic I got, doesnt show much does it.
But eyeballing the chain is inline with that chain stay. Looks to me the chain ring can come in a bit.
I will install original crank tonight and get better pics.

Screenshot 2021-07-29 135725.png
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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by Chalo » Jul 29 2021 4:04pm

That chainline looks horrible. If you don't need the longer spindle to keep the chain from rubbing the tire, use a shorter one.

Heavy as you are, you should be on BMX cranks to prevent hurting yourself. I recommend Profile Racing cranks because they offer lots of crank lengths and several different spindle lengths. But they're not cheap.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by raylo32 » Jul 29 2021 5:24pm

I agree, that chain line is one of the worst I have ever seen. That can't be the correct BB for that frame. It looks ~30mm too long on both sides.
Chalo wrote:
Jul 29 2021 4:04pm
That chainline looks horrible. If you don't need the longer spindle to keep the chain from rubbing the tire, use a shorter one.

Heavy as you are, you should be on BMX cranks to prevent hurting yourself. I recommend Profile Racing cranks because they offer lots of crank lengths and several different spindle lengths. But they're not cheap.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by markz » Jul 29 2021 9:40pm

Thanks Raylo and Chalo.

I found 2 dealers of my bicycle brand, hopefully they will have the parts I need, BB, rear hub or wheel.
https://www.surface604bikes.ca/pages/dealer-locator

Progress report: I hammered the axle back a tad, and went up a real steep hill today to see how easily the chain would slip off on my spare ccm 3x crank and it stayed on. I was in the middle crank gear with the small rear gear, straight enough chain line. I won't be doing many more of that until the fix, back to my normal route with easy wot hills.

Stock crank is a Prowheel Solid 1x, I counted 46T not 48T but hey I could be wrong.
https://electricbikereview.com/surface- ... -electric/
Cranks: ProWheel SOLID 248T-F Aluminum Alloy-6061 48T, 170 mm
Seems the Jak Superbrake is also stock, I thought it wasnt. Thats been replaced with Avid BB7.
Brake Details: JAK SuperBrake Mechanical Disc with 177.8 mm (7") Rotor, KARASAWA Levers
The 1x crank gear could come inward 10-15mm. I dont know if I really want a 1x crank, a e-type bb mounted front derailleur with a 3x crank in a 48/38/28 and a 13-34 would do me nice cruising while pedaling and hills.

Thanks Chalo, yeah you mentioned BMX cranks a couple times before, but I am to cheap for my own good :lol:
But I just might splurge, just maybe, but I dont know about sticking with a 1x. Sure no front shifter, no chain falling off the crank, no e-type fd. I am pedaling more, doing more hills just to break a sweat and work out but I also put on the mileage cruising at fast casual speeds and like to help out pedaling.

So a BMX crank set will fit a 90mm bb shell?
https://www.profileracing.com/product-c ... le-cranks/
6.875″(for 83mm & 100mm Euro BB’s)
6.0″(for 68mm & 73mm external Euro BB’s)


OK here is the stock 1x Prowheel crank, tightened on the square taper.
Please note these pics are with a totally loosened skewer and hub shifted all the over to the gear side.

You can see how the chain bends at the stock 1x crank, I think the crank itself is bent as well as the bb axle. I was riding around today with the 3x crank and the chain doesnt bend as much at the crank. Now the stock 1x crank has been off so the bent axle could very well be in a different position compared to bent crank, I mean I have a 25% of getting it right.
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This is to show you the hub difference.
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To show you the hub is shifted over gear side.
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To show you the chain is on the smallest rear gear.
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You can see the chain bend at the crank. Like I said the crank is pushed inward at the pedal. Now the axle maybe bent differently then the crank as its been off.
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small rear gear
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small rear gear
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Now the chain is on the biggest rear gear.
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The RD stops at 3rd gear, RD is not at biggest rear gear but chain is.
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Pushed the RD in to get a feel for chain line.
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Pushed the RD in to get a feel for chain line.
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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by Chalo » Jul 29 2021 11:19pm

markz wrote:
Jul 29 2021 9:40pm
So a BMX crank set will fit a 90mm bb shell?
https://www.profileracing.com/product-c ... le-cranks/
6.875″(for 83mm & 100mm Euro BB’s)
6.0″(for 68mm & 73mm external Euro BB’s)
Profile and other 48 spline BMX cranks are extremely chainline adjustable. You have to space the bearings apart according to the width of the BB shell. In your case, that probably means adding 7mm of thin washers to the spacer tube for an 83mm BB.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by raylo32 » Jul 30 2021 6:56am

BMX bikes and parts are something I have never worked on. But I just looked at the Profile website and they don't seem very $$... at least compared to my normal higher end road bike gear... so Mark you must really be cheap! ;-) Although I don't understand what all the miscellaneous parts are for and what you might need to make it work.

And those balls-in-cage BB bearings... I haven't used those since the early 1990s when I had a MTB BB bearing fail me in a snow shower up in the mountains. Get something with sealed bearings.

Chalo wrote:
Jul 29 2021 11:19pm
markz wrote:
Jul 29 2021 9:40pm
So a BMX crank set will fit a 90mm bb shell?
https://www.profileracing.com/product-c ... le-cranks/
6.875″(for 83mm & 100mm Euro BB’s)
6.0″(for 68mm & 73mm external Euro BB’s)
Profile and other 48 spline BMX cranks are extremely chainline adjustable. You have to space the bearings apart according to the width of the BB shell. In your case, that probably means adding 7mm of thin washers to the spacer tube for an 83mm BB.

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Eastwood   1 kW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by Eastwood » Jul 30 2021 7:17am

Chalo wrote:
Jul 28 2021 8:49pm
Most square taper spindles are hard enough that they won't bend like yours did. They snap off. (Ask me how I got my fancy gold teeth.)
Oh dang :shock:

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Eastwood   1 kW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by Eastwood » Jul 30 2021 11:11am

This company has some interesting bottom brackets. I purchased the 153mm bottom bracket to create clearance between my crank arms and battery case. But yeah they have some unique bottom brackets that might help in your situation.

https://sickbikeparts.com/bicycle-parts-and-tools/

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by raylo32 » Jul 30 2021 11:26am

Those guys have some interesting parts for sure. Thanks for sharing the link.
Eastwood wrote:
Jul 30 2021 11:11am
This company has some interesting bottom brackets. I purchased the 153mm bottom bracket to create clearance between my crank arms and battery case. But yeah they have some unique bottom brackets that might help in your situation.

https://sickbikeparts.com/bicycle-parts-and-tools/

markz   100 GW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by markz » Jul 30 2021 2:18pm

Eastwood, thanks a bunch for that link, SBP slipped my mind, their price of $27 is good, shipping prices to Canada are reasonable at $23 and hopefully no surprise bill months later like what FedEx pulls with Luna Cycle for ground shipping into Canada.

Raylo - I have looked into the BMX and its a little confusing since I never dealt in BMX before but I do remember Chalo telling me about it and my wallet shivered. :lol:
BMX specs never/hardly ever specify bb shell widths which is what threw me off but thanks to Chalo's knowledge I looked into it again. If I want to keep this bike instead of sell it then I'd go for good quality, expensive components. Orange is a little to eye catching and there isnt enough triangle space for a decent size battery.


-------------------
Saved draft

There are two authorized dealers for my bike here, I will go to both and ask them about a new bottom bracket. Though the one store looks to be a warehouse but its quite a long ride. Phew luckily I checked their website, says appointment only, I sent them an email since they are a licensed dealer I just hope they can sell me the rare, specialized 90mm bottom bracket that no one has.
The other place is downtown and I've been there before because they do custom cut spokes.

BMX crank option - Luckily there is a local bike shop that specializes in BMX, I will ride up there and see what they got.
I will come prepared with a dusted off credit card, will be a pricey matter, could almost buy a hub and slap it on a bike profit then blow cash on the bmx crankset. :lol:

There is Outboard and Inboard Euro, I will probably go inboard 19mm.
https://www.profileracing.com/tech-tip- ... overboard/
https://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=279037
the outboard bearings will stick out about 4-6mm outside the shell. If your spindle is long enough and you don't mind the wider stance, it shouldn't matter. I've only seen them on Mtn bikes, and your spindle may not need to be wider, but it may need to be, I don't know.
When I contacted Profile on this, they recommended using one of their spiders that has an offset to move the chain-ring back to where it should be. But I didn't want a spider.
Outboard - https://www.profileracing.com/product/e ... m-bracket/
Inboard - https://www.profileracing.com/product/e ... m-bracket/

Then I gotta go 48 spline axle spindle in 19mm 6.875"
19mm tube spacers - https://www.profileracing.com/product/2 ... e-spacers/
More spacers (22mm = 3/16, 3/64, 0.025) - https://www.profileracing.com/product/c ... er-spacer/
Crank Arms need to be 48 spline and match 19mm, lots of lengths to choose from- https://www.profileracing.com/product/ss-crankarm-set/

Like I said, I don't know about going the BMX crank route with only 1 crank gear, E-type front derailleur and a 2x or 3x crank will suit my needs perfectly, pedaling with 52x13 for cruising the pathways at a steady constant speed and saving juice extending my range by 15km, and the steep hills to climb in something like a 28or32x36 which only really need for 50' as most hills I wot before the hill to get up half the hill, the first 20-35% is in gears like 44x13, the middle part of hill in a mid gear like a 34x20 then the last bit of steep hill is always pumping hard and breaking a sweat at 22x36.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by Chalo » Jul 31 2021 1:05am

markz wrote:
Jul 30 2021 2:18pm
Like I said, I don't know about going the BMX crank route with only 1 crank gear, E-type front derailleur and a 2x or 3x crank will suit my needs perfectly,
Fear not. Other folks thought of that over 40 years ago.

https://www.jbi.bike/site/product_detai ... mber=21395

https://www.profileracing.com/product/s ... le-triple/
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by markz » Jul 31 2021 2:12am

Your a wealth of knowledge Chalo

TYVM

:thumb:
Chalo wrote:
Jul 31 2021 1:05am
markz wrote:
Jul 30 2021 2:18pm
Like I said, I don't know about going the BMX crank route with only 1 crank gear, E-type front derailleur and a 2x or 3x crank will suit my needs perfectly,
Fear not. Other folks thought of that over 40 years ago.

https://www.jbi.bike/site/product_detai ... mber=21395

https://www.profileracing.com/product/s ... le-triple/







--------------------------------
Edit

Here is an update from the authorized dealers that I emailed.
Basically "You are shit out of luck"
aka
"Those are not available, cant get them, bike is too old, that BB was odd shape.
I am not even sure if any aftermarket will fit."
but you could try."

So I dont know what the odd shape comment was about, probably just meant odd length bb shell.
So that makes me wonder how long did they weld these useless bottom bracket shells onto their bicycles
and what are they using now.
They must've wanted a certain chainline to choose such an odd bottom bracket. What was going through the manufacturers engineers mind when they came up with a impossible to get 90mm bottom bracket.
Last edited by markz on Aug 08 2021 4:57pm, edited 1 time in total.

HK12K   100 kW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by HK12K » Jul 31 2021 10:16am

You should really keep your eyes peeled for an affordable used downhill bike, then add spring rate as needed. Something designed to be launched off of the side of a mountain is going to hold up better for someone of your stature, even if you're just using it to tool around town. You've posted of numerous hard part failures over the years and it would suck for you to sustain serious injury because the thing decided to fold underneath you. I can appreciate that money doesn't grow on trees, but sometimes it's worth it to invest in quality.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by markz » Aug 08 2021 5:09pm

Yeah I could and perhaps I should of bought a downhill bike
but I like my triangle space for battery
Full suspension would indeed need to be dialed in, maybe once I get under 300lbs theres stock setups that may hold my weight with aftermarket heavier springs, rebuilding air shocks perhaps, yes, anything is possible throwing enough money at it. I know on the MTBR forums theres some in the Clydesdale section that are 275lbs that ride full suspension. The best I could hope for is a nice suspension fork, fat cushy tires and maybe a suspension seat post.

As it stands right now, I've been riding the bent bottom bracket axle for 2 weeks now. Bent the axle back best I could a week ago, fine for casual pedaling but once on hills it slips off down from 44T, or up and jams into the guard. I will keep trying to bend it back, might try some heat.

Been thinking about the situation for 2 weeks now
What if I get a shop to cut BB down and rethread?
That'll probably cost a lot, so Chalo's bmx crank would be cheaper.

Another route I was contemplating was figuring out how to get extra length on the bb shell to get 100mm, 5mm each side of 90mm. Welding would be out of the question due to accuracy needed and warping. But I saw some normal adpaters you slide in with bolts, is a common adapter and shell width was the same but it got me thinking.
Problem is the adding of more shell width. I regret buying that bike now, but I shouldn't have fallen.

I will bite the bullet and buy that ebay bb.
HK12K wrote:
Jul 31 2021 10:16am
You should really keep your eyes peeled for an affordable used downhill bike, then add spring rate as needed. Something designed to be launched off of the side of a mountain is going to hold up better for someone of your stature, even if you're just using it to tool around town. You've posted of numerous hard part failures over the years and it would suck for you to sustain serious injury because the thing decided to fold underneath you. I can appreciate that money doesn't grow on trees, but sometimes it's worth it to invest in quality.
Chalo wrote:
Jul 28 2021 8:49pm
Most square taper spindles are hard enough that they won't bend like yours did. They snap off. (Ask me how I got my fancy gold teeth.)

You're now on the receiving end of a nonstandard BB standard. This is why we can't have nice things.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274694554463

HK12K   100 kW

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by HK12K » Aug 08 2021 6:33pm

If you found something with long travel and stuffed a 500-750lb spring into it your weight would be a non issue for general purpose riding. Consider the forces involved when a 175lb person flies down a mountain at 60mph, goes off of a jump and lands it. Many magnitudes more force would be exerted than yourself under normal riding conditions.

As for triangle space, it's just a matter of finding an old downhill bike circa early 2000's. As a benefit they will be cheaper than anything made recently. Or you could finally grab a bomber style frame for a few hundred. Even the cheap knockoffs would handle your weight for general purpose riding assuming you threw enough spring under it. Even a cheap DNM rear coil shock would do.

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Re: Bent 3pc Bottom Bracket

Post by markz » Sep 02 2021 9:52pm

From a total of 8, some are being sold slowly probably thanks to search engine bots picking up this thread. I just bought one so will see how long it takes to end up at my door from Tampa Florida.
I was thinking of buying two, but I dont know if the bb axle length is correct for the bike or not.
Even when I get the 142x90 bb I don't know if the chain-line will be correct due to the much smaller rear axle.

Chain Reaction Cycle order still hasn't arrived and its been more then a month so will have to call them.

edit - Update - I emailed Chain Reaction Cycle twice, first was 2 days ago. The last response, today, I got a human response in email form. Giving me a tracking number. The tracking # said its been waiting at customs in Toronto for 3 weeks now. I used an email I hardly use so thats my mix up, and I really do need the $8 BB7 pads real bad, compared to $35 SRAM from local bike shop.
From the shipping company tracking # I got the first arrival to Toronto email on Aug 21 saying its at customs awaiting import duty payment of $14 on a $56 order. It was easy to call up the shipping company and 1 minute wait at 12:40pm on a Tuesday. I paid the $15 and the East Indian accented lady said it will take 2-3 days to be here or get shipped from Toronto. ---------- I was out riding and the back of the BB7 red plastic thing came off and was laying on the ground as I was afixing cardboard to the rear rack for an impromtu mud guard as it was raining. I just about left the red thingy behind if I didnt recognize it. The current pads are to thin, never any friction on the disk rotor, I tried everything from undoing cable nut and twisting the cable side knob. I need to find a good tutorial on youtube on how to adjust the mechanical disk brakes. ---------- I need to buy Grintechs cable for e-abs as the Wuxi levers I have dont seem to fully engage. I was riding last night and noticed with no grip, and a little moisture I got a shock pinching the two wires together of e-abs to stop. When I had left the braking force was pulsating and I couldnt figure out until I was riding home, but I felt an electrical shock with a bit of sweat on my skin. ---------- I had purchased the ebay bb 90x142 and the email said its on its way so I cant wait to be able to put lots of force into pedaling and not have chain slip. Its a 1x7 gear, but I'd like a bb-bracket mount fd for 3x, and customize the cage for a very wide gap, hoping 52 or 54, 34-40 and 22. I've read how that can be done, Mountain Tamer is no longer and the only other option is using road gear which people have had luck with a wide gap. ---------- Fixing up the bike yesterday, I couldnt get the FW off to get a spoke out and measure to replace 2 broken ones. CCW to remove FW was no dice and couldnt reel on it because if I slipped I'd hurt and need to heal. So I just rearranged the battery placement and thought more about a custom fit battery between the 26x4 tire and the seat post. I think its doable with 18650. Then I need to think about using square casing batteries for the triangle. CALB is to bulky but price is right. The triangle has a top bar not being straight, has caused minor battery attachement issues inside the triangle. The Grintech battery was on top of the top tube, now its on the down tube and square battery is on the rear rack which I dont like as rear rack will get damaged to easily. There is minimal space under the downtube between the front 26x2 tire on 135mmm fat fork which is a rear 135mm hub. Lots of great plans, need to save up.


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