Ebike touring and camping

MarkJohnston

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Mar 25, 2021
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Hello

I am thinking about going on a long distance ebike tour. Either across the united states or down into mexico since winter is coming.

I am wondering if anybody has any experience doing this. What might break on a cheap Chinese hub motor and aluminum mtb frame? Does anybody know any good trails to ride on? I'm thinking it's better to stick to paved roads and light gravel for fear of snapping/breaking something.

The biggest thing is going.to be trying to keep costs down which would mean camping. But how does one charge an ebike at a campsite? Are there any options ? I have two batteries and could potentially pedal 105 miles a day with LIGHT ON THE THROTTLE. BUT I WOULD need to charge every night for 6 hours. I need an outlet. But hotels would be too pricey.

Please anybody with good advice especially with the charging situation I would be forever grateful.
 
powered campgrounds

informal "hey can I plug in? "

forget solar unless days' charging for hours riding appeals
 
I have thought of using powered campgrounds. But they are far and few between? I am not sure. An informal charge won't work since I need to attend my bike. It would take 6 hours and I need that time during the day to keep moving. Unless I was to ride at night which I suppose I find to do to some degree.

Mexico is actually out unless someone knows a way to WOT and be outside the border area which is dangerous ( drugs/cartel) I would need to haul ass to get out of that and more inland to mexico
 
Well, first of all Mexico. I live 40 miles from Juarez, and I won't go there. Yeah, I'm a fraidy cat, but living this close to cartel land all my life, I've heard the stories. My best friend from high schools big sister vanished down there in the 70's. Its not 1968 anymore in the frontera. Things did get mean. But not every tourist gets abducted, far from it. The real danger zone is the last 50 miles right at the border. That can be dealt with in various ways, like hire a ride to farther in.

But at the moment anyway, you can't go there. This quite well may change by winter, but at the moment, you won't be allowed to cross. And almost nobody is vaccinated in Mexico.

Charging. You will very likely be spending 6 hours of daylight time charging. Camp spots seldom have a plug.

But that leaves, even in winter, 6 hours of daylight left to ride. Maxing out range at 15-18 mph, you will have time to ride 70 to 80 miles. You ever spent 10 hours in the bike saddle per day? I believe you will welcome a stop after 6 hours. There is a good reason bike races seldom exceed 6 hours daily riding. Cant continue once your ass is a bloody open sore.

Out here in the western deserts, you will need 80 mile range. Plugs can really be 70 miles apart. You will welcome any kind of affordable campsite that has electricity. In New Mexico where I live, 14 bucks a night at a state park gets you an RV site with plug. Since covid, its by reservation only though. When I did some shorter camping rides, I used the state park camps when convenient. Otherwise I just stole power. The smaller towns tended to have city parks with plugs that were on all the time. I just looked for those. City parks, community centers, and also just free range plugs. I learned to look for real estate signs. Vacant commercial properties were the best bet. I never actually had to beg power at a gas station or such, but that has been done a lot by others that rode multi thousand mile tours. Occasional stop at a motel can be worth it, for the shower. Shower is another reason many of the NM state parks are worth the 14 bucks.

Lastly, there are ES members. You can definitely charge at my house, if you ride down hwy 70 in NM. Look up some others that may be on your route, and use them for a charge and a shower.

To do the charging, I cannot stress enough, GET TWO satiators. This gets you 700 watts of charging flow, into two batteries at the same time. Its a high flow, but not enough to blow the breaker on every plug you try. Those satiators can run while it rains, a big plus. And they are fairly small, can be bolted right to the bike frame, without water damaging them. Seriously, get at least one! Two typical 200-250 w chargers is TOO SLOW. Don't bother to get them 100% full unless you must, or its overnight. Charge to 90%. A satiator will do a 90% charge of a 1000w hour battery discharged to 20% in just about two hours. Just over 4 hours to get almost 100% full from a 10% charged starting point. So that can be a 4 hour charge, not a 6 hour. That's about right for lunch and a good nap. Or grab two hours here, two hours there when plugs are closer. Definitely stop and charge when you can. Ride into the night if you must.

Climate. In mid winter, like January, you really want to be in southern AZ, southern CA. NM is too high at 3500 feet. Its actually cold desert here in January. But by valentines day its fine in the south end of the state. The perfect time is october november.

The bike. Just a regular mountain bike is very difficult to carry it all on. 80 miles worth of battery will just about max out your weight limits on panniers. Yes, you do need 2000 watt hours, for the desert stretches. It really is 70 miles from plug to plug on some routes. I built a couple of longtails just for this. But a bob trailer can work ok too. Carry the bulk of your batteries on the bike, and the tent and such on the trailer. Not a big problem towing, if you are keeping speeds mostly down to sub 20 mph. But you do have to slow down more on the descents. Its the rocky mountains out here, even south in the desert.
 
Ebikes are made with many parts that can’t be found on the road. This is not practical for a long time trip. Even motorcycles, sometimes are stalling you for a few days waiting for a replacement part.
 
I rode from Toledo Ohio to the Natchez Trace in Tennessee stealth camping, plus a couple of pay campgrounds. I did most of my charging at service station convenience stores where I would buy snacks or lunch and hang out by the ice machine to charge. I would ask the clerk and let them know that it would probably take 3 hours the answer was nearly always “sure, no problem”. I carried an ISDT charger and a Meanwell power supply that allowed me to charge at about 12 amps and shortened my charging time a lot. The downside is that all the wires sometimes made folks a little nervous. A satiatior charger would appear safer and more professional.
I would always be on the lookout for parks with a Ramada or covered cooking area and would take advantage of the chance to opportunity charge.
I was riding a Surly Big Dummy cargo bike with dual motors so I was carrying a lot of crap that I should have left home.
I left an assortment of spare parts including an extra motor and controller with a relative who was willing to express ship what ever I needed to me along the trail, but as it turned out my wiring harness shorted out and turned into an unrepairable fused mess, so I had to abort the trip.
Take a look at some of the cross country journals on crazyguyonabike.com to get tips on what to pack and what to expect. Just don’t mention ebikes on that site. They are absolutely against them.
When you decide on your route and schedule be sure to post it here. As DogmanDan said there are probably ES members along the way who would be happy to give you a place to rest and charge. I will be wintering in Winterhaven CA. About 20 miles from the border.
 
Ok. My wiring harness is going. I can see the axle chewing through the wires. Bad design apparently. I already posted about it on troubleshooting. I'll definitely want to get that fixed before I depart.

Does anybody have any experience airmailing lithium ion batteries? If you don't tell them when you ship what could happen? This would be one way to do a tour in southern mexico or Cancun or even Hawaii!!! Especially since it's going to get cold so soon
 
Ground shipping is an option, have a mailbox company hold it for you.
Those companies usually do FedEx/DHL type holding of packages for pickup by customer.

For travel with ebike and big battery I plan to go by bus so have to pay extra for the bike but in Canada there is no Greyhound anymore just private independent operators and a few bigger companies doing limited routes (Red Arrow, On-It inter-province one long route) but in the USA Greyhound is still alive and well.

Another method of travel could be by rail, in Canada its Via-Rail which is quite expensive to go across country as its more a tourist thing, takes a long time to cross country 4 or 5 days, but theres commuter trains in the bigger Toronto/Quebec metro to metro routes. Theres AmTrack in the USA. In Europe theres trains everywhere, you can buy an unlimited train pass which is quite expensive and trains get fewer and fewer the more east you go and take longer and longer to travel distances.

Battery wise for airlines, Grintech sells batteries that conform to airline travel but you might run into an airline or TSA official that doesnt know the official rules to deny you boarding for carry on allowance of battery. Checked baggage - Batteries might be taken off the plane when it hits xray.
 
Pretty hard to legally ship a lithium battery above a certain size. You'd have to do like china does, and lie.

If your heart is set on Mexico, maybe ship your motor there and put it on a bike you buy when you get there. To the same address, have one new battery shipped. Then you can fly down to central Mexico. Farther south, it won't be 80 miles plug to plug so you can get away with a lot less battery to carry.

This is assuming they let you across the border of course. Bear in mind, as things change with Covid, you might get into Mexico, but not be allowed back without a quarantine period. Just saying, things are weird now, and may get ok later this winter, or not.

To fix your axle wire, take apart the motor and pull the damaged part farther into the motor and cut it where its not damaged, then matching the wires color, splice the wires with solder and heat shrink to remove the damaged section.

If only the outer sheath of the cable is damaged, you can just tape it up good, or if the plug housing is removable, get a section of heat shrink onto the damaged part of the sheath.

As you just found out, the most vulnerable part of your ebike is the wiring. Carry with you the stuff to repair one. Nothing fancy, just some wire, tape, and wire nuts.

After that, the cheapo chargers tend to die, so get a satiator. Controllers can be vulnerable, but you should be able to get a new one sent to Mexico if you really get stalled out. Or just end the trip and ship your kit home if the trip is nearly over anyway. The motor itself will last fine, unless you weigh 350 pounds.
 
Yep. It is much easier to let the seller ship the battery where you want it, than shipping it yourself. Many bureaucratic formalities and safety certifications are required to ship batteries. Shipping illegal is risky business. Obviously, insurance will not cover the battery that is not declared, nor the damages it could cause in case of an accident.
 
MarkJohnston said:
The biggest thing is going.to be trying to keep costs down which would mean camping. But how does one charge an ebike at a campsite?
1. Use solar to extend your range (and to charge if nothing else is available.)
2. Ensure your battery(s) are removable and the charger is portable in case you have to take them inside a coffee shop or something to charge them.
3. Carry a long, thin gauge extension cord to charge your bike from outlets in awkward locations.
4. For opportunity charging speed is important, so choose a high power charger. (There are a dozen ways to get cheap ones.)
 
Best charger for that is Grin Satiators, can stack in parallel and precisely regulate the current drawn
 
Check the threads for at least one long distance tour by a member. Should have some cautionary tales. Also, (IMO), avoid Mexico even if you're allowed to enter.
 
Justin from Grin Technologies proofed that ebiking across Canada is possible.
for me the biggest problem while biking are cars on narrow roads.
If I rode my ebike across Canada I would try to choose roads with shoulders ONLY.
charging takes a lot of planning with precise maps.
my favourite charging points would not be stinky gas stations or any private property but schools, sport centres, etc. everything payed with my federal taxes
 
markz said:
That wont trip the circuit breaker.
Yep.

Two options there: the Huawei R4850G2 and the Meanwell RSP-1600-48. The Huawei will go to 3000 watts and can be programmed over the CAN bus to limit its output current. It's also 120 or 240 volts, so you can crank it all the way to 3000 watts (if your battery can handle it) if you have access to an EV charger or a dryer outlet or something. Super cheap; you can get one for $150 on Ebay. (You also need the backplane plug which is another $20 and a CAN interface.)

The Meanwell will go to 1600 watts and can be current controlled with a simple pot. So you can "dial your current" to match the outlet. 5 amps won't trip anything, 10 amps is generally OK if there are ordinary loads on the circuit, 12 amps is OK if there's nothing else on the circuit. They are about $400 new, $250 used.
 
john61ct said:
Best charger for that is Grin Satiators, can stack in parallel and precisely regulate the current drawn
The Satiator is awesome (I have one that I use for most of my charging) but it's heavy for the power it puts out. Not ideal for touring.
 
Those PSUs you mention are fantastic units for the purpose

but they are not full fledged chargers, in the sense of automatic stop-charge when the pack(s) get to Full.

An electrickery savvy DIYer could rig an HVC cutoff, at the PSU input

or repurpose a secondary BMS for that, that allows for sufficiently low setpoint adjustment.

Otherwise the user is the stop-charge regulator, which could be dangerous, or at least greatly reduce pack lifespan.
 
john61ct said:
Federal taxes pay for those in Canada?

I wrote about riding in Canada, that is right.
fed taxes deducted from every my paycheck.
no rich uncle pays for schools, libraries, sport centers , my taxes pays.
 
john61ct said:
but they are not full fledged chargers, in the sense of automatic stop-charge when the pack(s) get to Full.
Agreed. I would only use them for on-the-road charging, when you need a cheap, fast, light charger that you are able to monitor during charging. I usually add one of those Powerwerx inline DC monitors so I can see what the charger is doing during the charge - and disconnect it manually when the current drops off.

For charging in your garage overnight a conventional (lower power, charge terminating) charger is going to be a much safer option.
 
john61ct said:
Those PSUs you mention are fantastic units for the purpose

but they are not full fledged chargers, in the sense of automatic stop-charge when the pack(s) get to Full.

An electrickery savvy DIYer could rig an HVC cutoff, at the PSU input

or repurpose a secondary BMS for that, that allows for sufficiently low setpoint adjustment.

Otherwise the user is the stop-charge regulator, which could be dangerous, or at least greatly reduce pack lifespan.
I would not trust China brand charger to stop charge at whatever point.
I use celllogs based circuit for cutting off power to charger,
you can call it primitive but it is really effective.
beauty of celllog is alarm output which can be configured NC or NO
 
Older American made Meanwell PSUs that are CAN-Bus programmable can be set to stop, and they will not restart until they had been unplugged to clear the command, or when they receive a new command to start. Other Meanwell units, all of them that I know at least, are stopping once the circuit had reached the voltage setting and doesn’t need to be supported, but restart automatically if the battery voltage goes down. This may result in a few stop/start charging before stabilizing equal voltage between the battery and the PSU.
 
The Alberta government paid for about 500Wh of power for me today, Alberta Parks to be precise.
How much does that come to in dollar amount I have no clue or desire to do the math but I feel its owed to me. Why one may ask, well one could say security and safety to charge a cell phone, another is it keeps us ebikers/escooters/onewheels active which helps health. While charging for 45 minutes I saw one stand up escooter, one onewheel, and one or two ebikes.
I honestly believe the government should have power outlets at every or every other public bench. And I believe even more strongly they should have power outlets for public washrooms.
Sure some bums will use the power outlet to strike a spark to light a cig but that will be rare.


miro13car said:
Justin from Grin Technologies proofed that ebiking across Canada is possible.
for me the biggest problem while biking are cars on narrow roads.
If I rode my ebike across Canada I would try to choose roads with shoulders ONLY.
charging takes a lot of planning with precise maps.
my favourite charging points would not be stinky gas stations or any private property but schools, sport centres, etc. everything payed with my federal taxes
 
I don’t know in Alberta, but here in Quebec the Kw/h is 0.073 $. So your 500 w/h would have sucked 3 cents and a half from the government, supposing they pay the full residential tarif which I doubt.
 
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