Please help with "Not made in china" Ebike conversion

I need help finding a suitable Mid drive conversion and battery from anywhere but China, of the same high build quality and safety as E3emv https://em3ev.com/

I'll award a £50 bounty via paypal or Cryptocurrency to whoever can find me an Equivalent or superior in every aspect to the BBS02 750w Bafang mid drive only not made in China


Purpose is a car replacement general utility hardtail mountain bike, speed no more than 16 MPH around hilly Wales.
Just needs to be a torque monster capable of hauling 120KG of rider and cargo/shopping up half a mile of 20 degree incline at a respectable speed without overly stressing or overheating anything


And long range, for touring the country, thinking putting as large a triangle battery as will fit in the frame for no worries range while still only charging to 80% for maximum battery longevity


I would have Liked to get the BBS02 mid drive but with the way China is behaving I don't want to send any money their way.

And I don't think I'm the only one thinking this way considering the hefty Tarifs that are now on chinese goods

What would be the best Mid Drive motor conversion kit Made outside China, preferably in Taiwan?

Equivalent or better than the BBS02 750W in !Quietness/Stealth!, Efficiency, power and discreet stealthy appearance?

Budget around £1500, though can stretch a little if a little more if needed for a really nice motor with the highest possible efficiency in the performance envelope I mentioned earlier

I took a look at the Cyclone 3kw kits but they are overkill, obviously large and noisy

Right now I'm looking at the Cyclone 500w as an option if nothing better exists that isn't made in China

https://www.cyclone-tw.com/product/6/data/26

Not quite what I want as it's still noisy as it has a chain reduction stage, and only 24v which is a pain, but it's physically small enough to get away with limiting it to 15.5 MPH, always pedaling and slapping a 250w sticker on it for good measure

Cheers!

Gorillazilla said:

Right now I'm looking at the Cyclone 500w as an option if nothing better exists that isn't made in China
https://www.cyclone-tw.com/product/6/data/26

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So Republic of China is OK, but People's Republic of China is out?

E-HP said:

Gorillazilla said:

Right now I'm looking at the Cyclone 500w as an option if nothing better exists that isn't made in China
https://www.cyclone-tw.com/product/6/data/26

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So Republic of China is OK, but People's Republic of China is out?

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Yes, any country that didn't invade, and currently occupying and deleting the rich culture of peaceful Tibet
Is OK

I'm also now considering Direct drive since with the right setup can handle long steep hills and is silent

Peterfr12 said:

Hi Jil, bonjour (!)

I had a 8t Mac hub motor on my two former setups (58V battery): a diamond frame bike and then a recumbent. The Mac was not very reliable. The Mac clutch failed after 6000 km. I changed it myself. Mac motor is good for 35 mph but get hot after 25 miles, close to 90 C. I cannot climb high gradient (8%) without overheating the motor. It can climb a short 15% gradient but it overheated easily. i had to stop for 10 min.

Then for touring on my recumbent I switched to a MXUS 3000W direct drive with a 72V battery (20s) and I added statorade cooling fluid inside the motor . it is really another world ! 42 mph continuously without any issue with 2100 W! I barely reach 45 C after an 80 miles trip. I can climb 8% gradient at 35 mph and I have seen 65 C. I climbed last week a 20% gradient over 1 km after I done a 40 miles trip and reached 75 C. The 12F Nucular controller was maybe overheating (I put it inside a box) when I did a 20% gradient as it reached 105 C but not the hub motor. and I can use regen with a direct drive which is great to stop your bike at 40 mph and when going downhill. No more brake pads to change very 2000 km and so efficient and so safe even in rain. The only drawback is that the direct drive is much heavier than the mac motor but I don’t give a monkey since I don’t have to lift my bike.

Go for a direct drive.

Best regards,
Peterfr12

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OK, as you probably know, TDCM is a Taiwan manufacturer that makes some interesting direct drive hubs that have been used in bicycle marks like Stromer. I don't know where you'd get one, but there's probably a way. At one time ebikes.ca carried an IGH hub of theirs - internal gears not for the motor, but for the chain - but that's been off the shelf for a long time.

I like direct drive, too, for a car replacement. Simple, powerful, robust.

Gorillazilla said:

I need help finding a suitable Mid drive conversion and battery from anywhere but China,

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You tell them hub motor factory workers to leave Tibet alone! That'll learn 'em.

Chalo said:

Gorillazilla said:

I need help finding a suitable Mid drive conversion and battery from anywhere but China,

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You tell them hub motor factory workers to leave Tibet alone! That'll learn 'em.

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Those guys are cool, nothing against them

Problem is buying from them generates tax Revenue for winnie the poo and his invaders too!

donn said:

OK, as you probably know, TDCM is a Taiwan manufacturer that makes some interesting direct drive hubs that have been used in bicycle marks like Stromer. I don't know where you'd get one, but there's probably a way. At one time ebikes.ca carried an IGH hub of theirs - internal gears not for the motor, but for the chain - but that's been off the shelf for a long time.

I like direct drive, too, for a car replacement. Simple, powerful, robust.

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Now there's a lead I'm interested in!

Do they make any direct drives that have Enough torque to easily carry 150 KG of bike, rider, and cargo up half a mile of 20 degrees without being inefficient or overheating?

Maybe with the help of some Statorade?

Gorillazilla said:

[Do they make any direct drives that have Enough torque to easily carry 150 KG of bike, rider, and cargo up half a mile of 20 degrees without being inefficient or overheating?

Maybe with the help of some Statorade?

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I doubt it. Statorade isn't going to help, you're talking about something with tracks instead of tires. When you say 20 degrees, if I'm doing my figures right, that's a 36% grade. 1000 feet elevation gain in your half mile. Sure, there are places like that on earth, but not often does anyone try to stick a road on it. Even 20%, which I suppose you may have meant, isn't a real practical route, especially that goes on for half a mile. There's no real market for gear designed for this kind of nutty use case.

donn said:

Gorillazilla said:

[Do they make any direct drives that have Enough torque to easily carry 150 KG of bike, rider, and cargo up half a mile of 20 degrees without being inefficient or overheating?

Maybe with the help of some Statorade?

Click to expand...

I doubt it. Statorade isn't going to help, you're talking about something with tracks instead of tires. When you say 20 degrees, if I'm doing my figures right, that's a 36% grade. 1000 feet elevation gain in your half mile. Sure, there are places like that on earth, but not often does anyone try to stick a road on it. Even 20%, which I suppose you may have meant, isn't a real practical route, especially that goes on for half a mile. There's no real market for gear designed for this kind of nutty use case.

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Well, maybe not that extreme but at least capable of handling a route like this:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/53.3272709,-3.8354685/53.3325771,-3.8548473/@53.330425,-3.8501508,1301m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e2!5m2!1e3!1e4

The hardest section being a 470FT climb over 0.4 Miles, at a mostly constant grade
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/53.3276661,-3.8363667/53.3302577,-3.8422538/@53.3339763,-3.8524613,3679m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e2!5m2!1e4!1e3

Or atleast the longer but less steep route
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/53.3387789,-3.8488357/53.3320235,-3.8543158/@53.3310821,-3.8517914,2602m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e2!5m2!1e4!1e3




If there is a direct drive beefy enough to tackle any of those routes, not made in Mainland China that would be Ideal
As even a large Hub motor will be mostly concealed by the rear rack bags, and being silent will avoid unwanted attention

donn said:

Gorillazilla said:

[Do they make any direct drives that have Enough torque to easily carry 150 KG of bike, rider, and cargo up half a mile of 20 degrees without being inefficient or overheating?

Maybe with the help of some Statorade?

Click to expand...

I doubt it. Statorade isn't going to help, you're talking about something with tracks instead of tires. When you say 20 degrees, if I'm doing my figures right, that's a 36% grade. 1000 feet elevation gain in your half mile. Sure, there are places like that on earth, but not often does anyone try to stick a road on it. Even 20%, which I suppose you may have meant, isn't a real practical route, especially that goes on for half a mile. There's no real market for gear designed for this kind of nutty use case.

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Funnily enough, 36% is the steepest grade road in the world (mentioned at 1:45), also in wales of all places....

And the Nutters cycle up it, one not even assisted! So it IS possible!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trDbyQbfHKc

The one ebikes.ca used to sell - as reported on their motor simulator - appears to manage OK on the easiest 5% route. I have no idea what they're up to these days, but the 10% route sure isn't technically impossible. A 9C type hub can take that one, according to the simulator, and Statorade will supposedly give you an extra half mile. That's far too close a thing for regular daily use, in my opinion, but manufacturers have been known to turn out motors bigger than a 9C.

Ebike motors, almost all of them, are made in China. But, ebikes don’t need to be built with ebike motors. Many here on ES had built with various motors that were not made specifically for ebikes.

If you want a kit, there are very few that are entirely made out of China. Heinzman does make two ebike kits made in Germany, some kits sold in India are all Indian made. All others that I know of, are mostly rebranded Chinese components. Western made ebike motors and components are usually sold to manufacturers or dealers only: Shimano had the plan to sell kits but abandoned the idea because they would have lost almost all their OEM clients.

I wanted to buy an American designed and built battery, with somethig other than China origin cell manufacture when I first began ebike riding.

I did.

I found the only place, all these things exist, are in recycling OEM Electric vehicle cells, and building the battery yourself.

I have used this method very successfully, and currently hold 60+ cells from a brand new Chevrolet that are going to build, 4, ebikes of 1.2-2kWh batteries, much longer lasting than anything China manufactured. I will build these 4 batteries for less than the cost of one china battery, of questionable quality.

This is the only way I have found. The retail market for batteries is a joke for anyone trying to make a budget work.

Croatia - Cromotor with Greyborg frame
Canada - Grintechs Phaserunner and their battery.

Might be hard to guarantee that none of the discrete components (capacitors, resistors, etc.) did not come from China.

99t4 said:

Might be hard to guarantee that none of the discrete components (capacitors, resistors, etc.) did not come from China.

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Wires
Rare earth magnets
Castings
Magnetic steel
Crimps
Solders
PCBs
Resins and coatings
Machined components

As for me, I'd rather boycott my own rogue nation if I could manage it. We've done a lot more harm to a lot more people in a lot smaller span of time.

Yeah, sure, it's impossible, what about ___, no question you can feel OK about yourselves while doing this. But while China is sure to get some of his money in a round-about way, they apparently aren't going to get as much of it.

I didn't know Cromotor was made Croatia! I think that's one that can take those hills ... if you can put enough power through it. I don't know anything about this kind of hub motor, but it looks to me like if you want something like this, you want a battery and controller that can feed it a lot more power than what seems to me like about the high end of the regular consumer ebike components 40A x 52V setup. And you'd need it for that 20% grade commute.

I just found this article on where brands manufacture their bikes.

https://www.bikelockwiki.com/where-are-bikes-made/


Great resource for supporting other manufacturing economies to break Chinas Monopoly

DogDipstick said:

I wanted to buy an American designed and built battery, with somethig other than China origin cell manufacture when I first began ebike riding.

I did.

I found the only place, all these things exist, are in recycling OEM Electric vehicle cells, and building the battery yourself.

I have used this method very successfully, and currently hold 60+ cells from a brand new Chevrolet that are going to build, 4, ebikes of 1.2-2kWh batteries, much longer lasting than anything China manufactured. I will build these 4 batteries for less than the cost of one china battery, of questionable quality.

This is the only way I have found. The retail market for batteries is a joke for anyone trying to make a budget work.

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As long as I stick with 18650 cells I should be good for a mostly non China battery, as most of the best are not made in china at all!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yWKuo8bLIXc

Just a case of getting Japanese or other Cells assembled into a pack Locally

Maybe Bolton EBikes?

Try Falco. Everything manufactured in India FAIK, and genial owner (met him at Interbike years ago), but constant problems AFICR.

MadRhino said:

... some kits sold in India are all Indian made

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To my knowledge there are none fully Indian made.

If you can share the companies that say like that, please let know.

2old's post crossed mine, have never heard of Falco in Indian market. Their website says their products are sold in US & Europe

We might be getting a little tangled up in semantics. I understood the point to be, all of Falco's motors are from India, in the sense that TDCM is made in Taiwan, etc. Not that it matters, unless for some reason you like to be sold stories like "Zero free-wheeling resistance / 40% more power delivery than a three-phase motor" that are apparently not true.

donn said:

I didn't know Cromotor was made Croatia!

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They aren’t. The Cromotor is the QS 205h50 made in China by QS Motor. They make some mods in Croatia to make it lighter, or they used to. Not sure those mods aren’t made by QS now, since they advertise a lighter weight than a few years ago.