Stop start vs continuous

Hello,
I have bought an ET Cycles F1000 48V 21AH Battery with a 250W motor.
I have had limited time to ride but have managed a few short trips on various terrains, I have totalled 49KM.
If those 49kms were done in one continuous ride would the remaining charge be any different?
Full charge 54.6V low charge 42V... I have a remaining resting charge of 48.3v

Poider said:

Hello,
I have bought an ET Cycles F1000 48V 21AH Battery with a 250W motor.
I have had limited time to ride but have managed a few short trips on various terrains, I have totalled 49KM.
If those 49kms were done in one continuous ride would the remaining charge be any different?
Full charge 54.6V low charge 42V... I have a remaining resting charge of 48.3v

Click to expand...

It depends. Was that "continuous ride" done at the same average speed your short trips were run at? Were all other conditions (e.g. wind speed/direction. and elevation changes).

I would suggest that if you are trying to figure out how far you can go on a charge, you increase the distance you have run by a factor of 10 or 20. That should bring a clearer focus on what you can plan on getting - assuming that's what you are trying to do.

Ok so if all conditions are the same and I was on a flat road with no other contributing factors....
Would a continuous run of 50km take the same battery as 10 short runs of 5km on the same road
If Started at point 'a' and rode 50km to point 'b' non stop
or
I started at point 'a'
and rode 5km then stopped for 5 minutes
then rode 5km then stopped for 5 minutes
then rode 5km then stopped for 5 minutes
then rode 5km then stopped for 5 minutes
then rode 5km then stopped for 5 minutes
until I reached point 'b'
would the battery usage be the same?

No, continuous uses less energy.

But very puzzled how the question helps anything practical?

You should actually be measuring this, so it is easy to test and verify yourself

Be slight difference because your taking more battery juice to get total weight moving whereas if your just riding along at a constant speeds your saving juice (wh) because your not stopping and starting.
How much wh, who knows so who cares when your talking 750wh battery.

Just go to https://ebikes.ca/tools/trip-simulator.html
punch in the numbers for one stop and go session
multiply by how many your doing

then punch in the numbers for a continuous non stop trip for 2 or 3 stop and go sessions
all on flat ground, all the same slope

I bet the difference is insignificant if we're talking about average person weight.

It is interesting, I got 16.4wh/km for 1km stretch of flat highway, but 18.5wh/km for 2km just on the default settings. Maybe heat buildup and wind resistance.

Some motors, due to the combination of the winding and the wheel size, can be very inefficient if your route includes enough stops. I mean like you actually stop at stop signs every block, and never pedal up a start. Worst case I measured, 20% worse. But that type motor is hard to find now days, and more like 10% worse is more typical, and again only if you pedal not at all.

But that inefficient start is easy to fix, pedal 10 feet, then start the motor with your throttle. Or pedal harder to start if you have PAS. That gets tiresome. I found you could save just as much by riding a just a small part of your trip slower. Like slow down 2-4 mph. 26 instead of 30, or 18 instead of 20.

You won't mind riding slower a mile, compared to pedaling hard on every light. And of course, you can save a lot more if you slow down the whole ride. You can double your range by riding 18 mph vs 25.

And don't imagine regen comes close to making up the difference

It kind of defeats the purpose of having an ebike if you pedal only to get going then engage electric.
I was in the same line of thinking until I saw Justin talking about in one of his Grintech video's, I can't remember which one, I think it was the efficiency video. To each their own, its just insignificant but that all adds up if your stopping every block in a downtown then maybe its time to get the right setup, maybe a mid drive.

markz said:

It kind of defeats the purpose of having an ebike if you pedal only to get going then engage electric

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A matter of taste not dogma

If doing that saves a huge extra investment and gets you the heavy duty but lighter weight rig you want

or gives much greater longevity, reducing the ongoing cost per year or per ride

then many may well be happy making that sacrifice.

There is no one right way,each owner has their priorities to balance

True

It kind of falls inline with people who prefer pedal assist, and the few who rock throttle only with little or no pedaling. I am switching from throttle only and rarely/if-ever pedaling and hating to break a sweat to wanting a decent huffing and puffing session once or twice a ride up a steep hill. I couldnt deal with pedal assist only, I'd just have it on max power level 100% of the time :lol:
Some were prejudice of pedal assist but a good pedal assist is convenient and barely noticeable what I hear from others and some es gurus.

Set my CA to cut power below 1 kph. PAS normally does not kick in until so many rpm's and my throttle does not work below 1 km. Several reasons for this. Did not want anyone reach down and push the throttle messing around. This thing is turned up would take the legs out from under you. Another it helps my average watts per Km as I need to peddle to get the trike going. The main reason is did not want someone to jump on and take off with it. Think about changing it if I put a key lock on it.

by markz » Oct 28 2021 7:57pm

True

It kind of falls inline with people who prefer pedal assist, and the few who rock throttle only with little or no pedaling. I am switching from throttle only and rarely/if-ever pedaling and hating to break a sweat to wanting a decent huffing and puffing session once or twice a ride up a steep hill. I couldnt deal with pedal assist only, I'd just have it on max power level 100% of the time :lol:
Some were prejudice of pedal assist but a good pedal assist is convenient and barely noticeable what I hear from others and some es gurus.

Click to expand...

Every bodies situation is different. When I started to e bike, I was happy to hardly use the motor at all, but wanted help on the way home from work. Home was 15 all uphill miles, so finding a way to make the battery last all the way there was kind of important. Trading a few seconds of hard pedaling at the lights early in the ride beat running out with 500 vertical feet to go. If it was cold, and the wind was in my face it got real hard to make it all the way home, so I'd start riding slower too, between those lights. Once I got a wattmeter, it got a lot easier to judge my range, how fast I could go on a certain day, etc and make it home. That's when I could measure just how shitty that early motor was at wasting power on a start. With current hub motors all you need to do is pedal moderately to save a lot of power on the starts. But every body is different. After I got all sick, I could not pedal one stroke for about 5 years. At that point is was all up to how fast I rode to save power when I needed to.


What Poider really needs to evaluate his battery capacity, is a watt meter. It can be an expensive but really great cycle analyst, or a cheap watt meter that goes in line from the battery to the controller. Guessing by battery voltage really is a guess, but if you ride the same route every day, you get a feel for where you should be, just by having a volts read out, and and knowing when you need to slow down if volts look low at a certain point compared to normal.