How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
User avatar
SafeDiscDancing   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 514
Joined: Jan 03 2022 12:01pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by SafeDiscDancing » Jan 16 2022 12:52am

Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 12:20am
No. Even at 3kW, pedals are nothing more than decoration. If it's a motorcycle, then let it be treated as a motorcycle. We have policies for those.
My fairly lightweight ebike (70 lbs) designed to hit 28 mph is running at right around 2000 watts right now.

Actually I fiddle around with the precise amount to make it "just enough" so I can climb the very steep roads in my area which hit about 10% grade.

At 3000 watts I could do all the hills and not pedal. At 2000 watts I need to pedal very hard or the motor stalls.

Below 1500 watts and my legs and the ebike just won't make the hill.

My area has some rather extreme hills and I know that most roads are built to a limit of 6% grade.

If you were in Europe and lived in an area of extremely steep roads (which they did a lot back in older times) you would need that level of power UNLESS you went to a mid drive and ran the power through multiple gears.

But then you have the maintenance problems with rapid chain wear.

A very low powered 250 watt mid drive could get you up anything if geared down to a crawl.

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10386
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by Chalo » Jan 16 2022 10:46am

SafeDiscDancing wrote:
Jan 16 2022 12:52am
Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 12:20am
No. Even at 3kW, pedals are nothing more than decoration. If it's a motorcycle, then let it be treated as a motorcycle. We have policies for those.
At 3000 watts I could do all the hills and not pedal. At 2000 watts I need to pedal very hard or the motor stalls.
I reckon that's the same as a stinking gas powered moped; some hills are simply not on the menu unless you add power. If you do add power, then it's a motorcycle. That's not a mysterious catch-22, it's just a different set of regulations to abide by.

For a long time, Texas rules for electric bikes didn't have a power limit-- only a speed limit and weight limit. My two bikes were built to conform to that earlier standard, which has since changed to a California-like three class standard with 750W power limit and a higher speed limit. So technically, my bikes are no longer in compliance with the standard, but they're still close enough to pass casual inspection.

If I wanted an easy 5hp, or 10hp or whatever, I could have that. But to be legally acceptable, I'd have to comply with the rules governing motorcycles, and that might mean starting with some VIN-bearing chunk of a motorcycle frame and building out from there. I haven't really looked into it.

Where I am, the de facto rules are that mopeds, gas or electric, can run unplated without problems except when cops do racist/selective enforcement. So in practice, it doesn't matter much as long as you stay off the freeway or other high speed thoroughfares (and you can pass for white). But it's easy enough to find out what the applicable rules are, and to conform to them.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

User avatar
SafeDiscDancing   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 514
Joined: Jan 03 2022 12:01pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by SafeDiscDancing » Jan 16 2022 2:15pm

The only "real" law in the universe is Natural Law which defines as the only "wrong" material harm to another and everything else is a "right".

That's were the concept of "rights" came from.

But why?

The reason is to prevent REVENGE.

If you harm another eventually someone wants payback.

But Natural Law can actually be gotten around through deception... which gets into more "mature" topics.

Basically the only "divine law" is do your own thing and don't hurt anyone else doing it.

ebike4healthandfitness   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 553
Joined: May 19 2012 10:20pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 16 2022 5:29pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 12:20am
ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 15 2022 4:05pm
According to this article Europe's limit on continuous power for mopeds is 4500 watts:

Do you think the US and Canada should accept that power level also?
No. Even at 3kW, pedals are nothing more than decoration. If it's a motorcycle, then let it be treated as a motorcycle. We have policies for those.

The power level of the bike and the lack of functionality of the pedals are not something that are positively correlated together.

A high power bike could have very functional pedals and a low power bike could have poorly functional pedals. In fact, we see examples of this in real life all the time.

I could definitely see very functional pedals on a 4,000 continuous watt (with 10,000 peak watt) street legal EU moped.

ebike4healthandfitness   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 553
Joined: May 19 2012 10:20pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 16 2022 5:53pm

In the opening post I mentioned the Juiced HyperScorpion which is a moped version (registerable in California) of the Juiced Scorpion ebike adding moped items such as turn signal indicators, side view mirrors, license plate holder, etc.

Here are some pictures of the Sur-ron and one picture of the Stealth B52 EU moped versions which get the same moped items.

Looks like to me the California add-on equipment for moped is identical to the EU add-on equipment for moped. Only difference I know about is the power level and slight top speed difference.
Attachments
SUR-RON-C.jpg
SUR-RON-C.jpg (262.16 KiB) Viewed 414 times
Surron_l1e_road_legal_grey_1296x_6034b4c9-3ade-43fb-ae9e-c6750eeb8670_720x.jpg
Surron_l1e_road_legal_grey_1296x_6034b4c9-3ade-43fb-ae9e-c6750eeb8670_720x.jpg (48.53 KiB) Viewed 414 times
MG_2898_large.jpg
MG_2898_large.jpg (20.39 KiB) Viewed 414 times
MG_2868_large.jpg
MG_2868_large.jpg (17.25 KiB) Viewed 414 times
MG_2866_large.jpg
MG_2866_large.jpg (20.95 KiB) Viewed 414 times
MG_2862_large.jpg
MG_2862_large.jpg (24.21 KiB) Viewed 414 times
259127126_4965366013494546_5660397421093765715_n-728x632.jpg
259127126_4965366013494546_5660397421093765715_n-728x632.jpg (86.91 KiB) Viewed 414 times

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10386
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by Chalo » Jan 16 2022 6:33pm

ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 16 2022 5:29pm
Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 12:20am
No. Even at 3kW, pedals are nothing more than decoration. If it's a motorcycle, then let it be treated as a motorcycle. We have policies for those.
I could definitely see very functional pedals on a 4,000 continuous watt (with 10,000 peak watt) street legal EU moped.
You could see that, because you have weird buttons and negligible real world experience.

What I know is that people who are fit but aren't adapt athletes can lay down a steady 200W without blowing up. So that's 5% of the nominal power and 2% of the peak power of the system you're describing. Already not significant.

However, the action of pedaling costs more energy as drag than you contribute as power, once you're moving 30mph or faster. So if that's how fast you want to go, the pedals are truly ornamental because they cost you more power than you make with them.

Pedals make sense for a 250W pedelec, for a 750W class 3 e-bike, even. But for a multi-HP e-moped, they're not useful except to game e-bike laws and usurp bicycle privileges.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

User avatar
SafeDiscDancing   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 514
Joined: Jan 03 2022 12:01pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by SafeDiscDancing » Jan 16 2022 6:58pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 6:33pm
Pedals make sense for a 250W pedelec, for a 750W class 3 e-bike, even. But for a multi-HP e-moped, they're not useful except to game e-bike laws and usurp bicycle privileges.
Again... Natural Law is the only true law of the universe because it is based in the true reactions of the universe.

So if no HARM is being done by someone acting on free will to improve their ebike experience then why complain?

There was once a time when people thought ebikes were lame... now they are dangerous?

-------------------

"BREAKING NEWS : There has been a Terrorist attack in Austin, Texas.

An ebike of over 750 watts of power has plowed through a protest against vaccine mandates and as a result of this brutal violence 47 people are now dead and 129 others were injured.

Brian Jacobson the Mayor of Austin said:

'This was the act of a deranged cyclist who used his excessive motor performance as a murder weapon.'

People are in complete grief over this tragic event.

An Expert in ebikes said:

'We must fight the ebike that exceeds pedel power at all costs because we could all die from this type of barbarity.'"

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10386
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by Chalo » Jan 16 2022 7:35pm

SafeDiscDancing wrote:
Jan 16 2022 6:58pm
So if no HARM is being done by someone acting on free will to improve their ebike experience then why complain?
Harm is being done against bicyclists when you run motorcycles on their scarce, hard-earned right of way.

Imagine a jackass in an F150 arguing, "well, as long as I go slow, there's no difference".
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

ebike4healthandfitness   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 553
Joined: May 19 2012 10:20pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 16 2022 8:02pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 6:33pm
However, the action of pedaling costs more energy as drag than you contribute as power, once you're moving 30mph or faster. So if that's how fast you want to go, the pedals are truly ornamental because they cost you more power than you make with them.
You must be referring to someone pretty weak using a pedelec to go 30 mph. I suppose that it could be true for a weak enough person pedaling at a certain speed is a detriment because their power input is less than the aerodynamic drag caused by the moving pedals and their moving legs at 30 mph.

To me that isn't an argument against pedals being on a high power bike. It is an argument against not using a fairing for certain strength people who want to pedal at certain speeds.

calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1184
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by calab » Jan 16 2022 8:10pm

It is hard to get the right gears to be able to pedal 30mph 58t crank and 11t or 12t rear.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/b ... calculator

User avatar
SafeDiscDancing   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 514
Joined: Jan 03 2022 12:01pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by SafeDiscDancing » Jan 16 2022 8:17pm

calab wrote:
Jan 16 2022 8:10pm
It is hard to get the right gears to be able to pedal 30mph 58t crank and 11t or 12t rear.
Which is why the ebike is a 28 mph device.

My ebike is restricted in the motor to 28 mph.

ebike4healthandfitness   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 553
Joined: May 19 2012 10:20pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 16 2022 8:35pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 6:33pm
Pedals make sense for a 250W pedelec, for a 750W class 3 e-bike, even. But for a multi-HP e-moped, they're not useful except to game e-bike laws and usurp bicycle privileges.
1. What about a multi-HP e-moped that is running low on charge, ran out of charge or has had it's electrical system breakdown?

2. e-Mopeds don't share the same privileges as bicycles or class I or class II ebikes. They can only use class 2 and class 3 bike lanes. Chalo, what you are upset about is BSMs because BSMs appear to be mere ebikes when they are really much more than that. e-moped can't pull the trick of a BSM because it has a license plate and has looks that deviate from an ebike.

99t4   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 593
Joined: May 10 2020 10:31pm
Location: PNW

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by 99t4 » Jan 16 2022 8:51pm

ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 16 2022 8:35pm
1. What about a multi-HP e-moped that is running low on charge, ran out of charge or has had it's electrical system breakdown?
Ha! Not going to happen. Ever tried it? Pedaling any distance on an e-disabled "multi-HP e-moped?" Speedy will start out with spunk and verve and pedal it a few blocks, maybe 1/4 mile at most, then give up, call pop to "come pick me up" with his pickup truck. :lol:

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10386
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by Chalo » Jan 16 2022 9:02pm

ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 16 2022 8:02pm
Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 6:33pm
However, the action of pedaling costs more energy as drag than you contribute as power, once you're moving 30mph or faster.
You must be referring to someone pretty weak using a pedelec to go 30 mph.
According to my power calculator, it costs 130W extra to pedal at 30 mph than not to pedal. 307W at 40 mph. You might, emphasize might, pedal at 130W for more than a few minutes. You won't pedal at 307W for more than a few seconds. In either case, it's a lot of work just to go no faster than if you weren't pedaling.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

ebike4healthandfitness   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 553
Joined: May 19 2012 10:20pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 16 2022 9:09pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 9:02pm
ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 16 2022 8:02pm
Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 6:33pm
However, the action of pedaling costs more energy as drag than you contribute as power, once you're moving 30mph or faster.
You must be referring to someone pretty weak using a pedelec to go 30 mph.
According to my power calculator, it costs 130W extra to pedal at 30 mph than not to pedal. 307W at 40 mph. You might, emphasize might, pedal at 130W for more than a few minutes. You won't pedal at 307W for more than a few seconds. In either case, it's a lot of work just to go no faster than if you weren't pedaling.
I get it that it is more efficient not to pedal than it is to pedal once a certain strength person reaches a certain mph.

But how is this an argument against pedals for higher speed usage when we have fairings for upright bikes and recumbents (like Electrom) that would eliminate that additional drag caused by pedaling?

P.S. What calculator are you using?

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10386
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by Chalo » Jan 16 2022 10:45pm

ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 16 2022 9:09pm
I get it that it is more efficient not to pedal than it is to pedal once a certain strength person reaches a certain mph.

But how is this an argument against pedals for higher speed usage when we have fairings for upright bikes and recumbents (like Electrom) that would eliminate that additional drag caused by pedaling?

P.S. What calculator are you using?
Fairings are a failure. They have been around for generations, but have never made enough of a case for their benefits as to become widely adopted. This is not a result of conspiracy; it's the fact that they suck more than they help for almost everyone.

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

ebike4healthandfitness   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 553
Joined: May 19 2012 10:20pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 16 2022 11:19pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 10:45pm
ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 16 2022 9:09pm
I get it that it is more efficient not to pedal than it is to pedal once a certain strength person reaches a certain mph.

But how is this an argument against pedals for higher speed usage when we have fairings for upright bikes and recumbents (like Electrom) that would eliminate that additional drag caused by pedaling?

P.S. What calculator are you using?
Fairings are a failure. They have been around for generations, but have never made enough of a case for their benefits as to become widely adopted. This is not a result of conspiracy; it's the fact that they suck more than they help for almost everyone.

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
Fairings are extremely successful. What are talking about? Look at all the motorized cycles that have been using them for generation to generation. And the fairings just keep on getting better and better.

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10386
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by Chalo » Jan 16 2022 11:25pm

ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 16 2022 11:19pm
1. Fairings are extremely successful. What are talking about? Look at all the motorized cycles that have been using them for generation to generation. And the fairings just keep on getting better and better.
And yet bicycles, which were first, and which have the least power to waste, still use them at a 0.0% rate.
2. Don't forget UCI is holding back development in purely human powered cycles.
Most bikes that people ride in the real world aren't designed with UCI requirements in mind. A lot of the bikes that are raced in the real world also are not designed with UCI requirements in mind. That's a tired old excuse for technological lameness that you're not old enough to invoke.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

ebike4healthandfitness   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 553
Joined: May 19 2012 10:20pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 16 2022 11:55pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 11:25pm
ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 16 2022 11:19pm
1. Fairings are extremely successful. What are talking about? Look at all the motorized cycles that have been using them for generation to generation. And the fairings just keep on getting better and better.
And yet bicycles, which were first, and which have the least power to waste, still use them at a 0.0% rate.
And how would the average speed of a purely human powered bike compare to the average speed of a moped with 4,000 watt continuous and 10,000+ watt peak power (but limited to a top speed of 28 mph) on a hilly course?

Using http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm if I keep the default values where they are and set power to 200 watts and choose "road bike hands on tops" I only get an average speed of 11 mph if the course is equal parts flat, 10% grade and -10% grade. In contrast, the moped despite being limited to 28 mph up the hill and on the flats has an overall average speed of 33 mph.

User avatar
SafeDiscDancing   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 514
Joined: Jan 03 2022 12:01pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by SafeDiscDancing » Jan 17 2022 11:16am

ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 16 2022 11:55pm
And how would the average speed of a purely human powered bike compare to the average speed of a moped with 4,000 watt continuous and 10,000+ watt peak power (but limited to a top speed of 28 mph) on a hilly course?
The Class 3 ebike rules are a real blessing in my opinion.

Trying to limit an ebike to 20 mph when most residential streets are posted as 25 mph makes just getting around very uncomfortable because cars pass you all the time.

In my neighborhood all the streets are 25 mph and my ebike hits an ERPM limit at exactly 28 mph so as it is put together now I cannot exceeed that speed.

But what I find is that even 28 mph will mean people in cars who are speeding will creep up behind you.

If someone wants to pass me while I'm going 28 mph in a 25 mph zone I simply pull over and let them by.

Power is really mostly about the hills where I live which are literally 10% grade in some places which is very rare anywhere.

For anyone living in the vast open plains of the midwest or Texas you can carry 28 mph pretty easily with just about 1000 watts input and 750 watts at the rear wheel which is the official designation.

My highest speeds are when coasting down the hills and doing that gets me to around 45 mph by my best guess.

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10386
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by Chalo » Jan 17 2022 11:42am

SafeDiscDancing wrote:
Jan 17 2022 11:16am
But what I find is that even 28 mph will mean people in cars who are speeding will creep up behind you.
I used to live in West Seattle, and on my commute to work was a half mile descent with no cross streets and an average grade of 8 percent. This stretch was signed 35 mph. But all I had to do to hit 55 mph on my pedal bike was to crouch down low over the bars.

When I would do this, oftentimes cars would drive past me, like they were required to pass me just because I was on a bicycle, even though I was going 20 over the limit. Then they'd freak out and go hard on the brakes as they approached the turn at the bottom.

My point is, car drivers are stupid and will pass you however fast you're going, however unsafe it is to do so. Riding your bike faster only means that things will go wrong at higher speed. Would you rather an oblivious driver turn right across your lane while you're going 20 mph, or 30 mph?

My advice is, get used to dummies in cars passing you. It won't kill you, though turning your speed up to match theirs might.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

ebike4healthandfitness   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 553
Joined: May 19 2012 10:20pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 17 2022 1:04pm

SafeDiscDancing wrote:
Jan 17 2022 11:16am
ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 16 2022 11:55pm
And how would the average speed of a purely human powered bike compare to the average speed of a moped with 4,000 watt continuous and 10,000+ watt peak power (but limited to a top speed of 28 mph) on a hilly course?
The Class 3 ebike rules are a real blessing in my opinion.

Trying to limit an ebike to 20 mph when most residential streets are posted as 25 mph makes just getting around very uncomfortable because cars pass you all the time.

In my neighborhood all the streets are 25 mph and my ebike hits an ERPM limit at exactly 28 mph so as it is put together now I cannot exceeed that speed.

But what I find is that even 28 mph will mean people in cars who are speeding will creep up behind you.

If someone wants to pass me while I'm going 28 mph in a 25 mph zone I simply pull over and let them by.

Power is really mostly about the hills where I live which are literally 10% grade in some places which is very rare anywhere.

For anyone living in the vast open plains of the midwest or Texas you can carry 28 mph pretty easily with just about 1000 watts input and 750 watts at the rear wheel which is the official designation.

My highest speeds are when coasting down the hills and doing that gets me to around 45 mph by my best guess.
Using the example I did in my previous post a 749
watt mid drive Class 3 road ebike which uses the bicycle gears to transmit power gets 27 mph on the same course (using the same 157 lb rider).

So pretty close to the 10,000 watt peak (4000 watt continuous) EU moped.

If I increase rider weight to 200 lbs (the weight of an average American male) the mph for the purely human powered road bike drops to 9.6 mph, the 749 watt class 3 mid drive road bike drops to 24.5 mph and the 10,000 watt peak EU moped stays the same at 33 mph.
Last edited by ebike4healthandfitness on Jan 17 2022 1:50pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
SafeDiscDancing   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 514
Joined: Jan 03 2022 12:01pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by SafeDiscDancing » Jan 17 2022 1:44pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 17 2022 11:42am
My advice is, get used to dummies in cars passing you. It won't kill you, though turning your speed up to match theirs might.
I operate within a very controlled retirement community with old people.

So generally most are very polite and often slow.

But outside my restricted community in the nearby "wild urban streets" it's scary. But then they have bike paths to get you through that safely.

My situation is unusual.

However, very rural areas can be wonderful if the roads are in better shape.

It's the one crazy driver out of a hundred that if they look scary I just pull off and let them by.

User avatar
SafeDiscDancing   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 514
Joined: Jan 03 2022 12:01pm

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by SafeDiscDancing » Jan 17 2022 1:50pm

ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Jan 17 2022 1:04pm
Using the example I did in my previous post a 749
watt mid drive Class 3 road ebike which uses the bicycle gears to transmit power gets 27 mph on the same course (using the same 157 lb rider).
And keep in mind Power "Out" and Power "In" are different.

Assuming 750 watts "Out" then you are putting in roughly 1000 watts because of efficiency losses.

Motor 20% (min)
Chain and Bearings, Etc 5%

100% - 25% = 75%

User avatar
pwd   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 621
Joined: Oct 11 2011 12:01pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: How do you feel about your state's moped laws?

Post by pwd » Jan 17 2022 2:16pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 17 2022 11:42am
SafeDiscDancing wrote:
Jan 17 2022 11:16am
But what I find is that even 28 mph will mean people in cars who are speeding will creep up behind you.
... oftentimes cars would drive past me, like they were required to pass me just because I was on a bicycle, even though I was going 20 over the limit. Then they'd freak out and go hard on the brakes as they approached the turn at the bottom...
That is my exact experience too, they aren't looking at their own speed. It is better to let them (the dummies) pass as you said (good advice); but sometimes that is easier said than done in the moment.
2WD Commuter/Street Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=98286:
Rocky Mountain Element - upgrades in progress
Magic Pie 4 front w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 70A phase + Leafmotor 1500 rear w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 230A phase
Samsung 40T3 20S6P

Offroad Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=102195:
2017 Scott Big Jon
Cyclone "3kw" 13T motor to 36T chain ring then 32T chain ring to 11T-46T Cassette @ 100A phase
Molicel P42A 21S3P

Post Reply