Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

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ebikesoda78   1 mW

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Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by ebikesoda78 » Jan 15 2022 12:32pm

I'm looking for advice on what controller I should put onto this bike it has a 750w hub motor with a z190 connector. For now I just want to upgrade the controller the battery pack is 48v 14ah. I'm willing to up the battery to a 60 volt pack and equip the rear wheel with a new 1500 watt+ hub motor. The current controller is 17a max and is a lishui controller. There is currently no adjustable display for the rideal except for the eggrider which is expensive. I know a torque arm will be nescarry upping my specs like that in the future.

The bike is aluminium with a 6 speed Shimano tourney tx and mech brakes. Ideally I want this thing atleast doing 40s but hopefully higher!

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by Chalo » Jan 15 2022 1:29pm

ebikesoda78 wrote:
Jan 15 2022 12:32pm
The bike is aluminium with a 6 speed Shimano tourney tx and mech brakes. Ideally I want this thing atleast doing 40s but hopefully higher!
A cheap, marginal quality bike like that is doing good to manage a steady 20 mph. You'll have to step up your game so much to make it suitable for 40 mph that you'd be better off starting with another bike-- preferably a motorcycle.

To hold 40 mph, you'll need about 3kw at the tire, so at least 4kW from the battery. Nothing you have now is fit for that job.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by E-HP » Jan 15 2022 4:20pm

I agree with Chalo. To get that bike to 40mph, everything will get changed out besides the frame, so if that's the case, best to start with a better frame, with suspension.

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by ebikesoda78 » Jan 16 2022 1:30am

What if I just want to upgrade top speed

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by ebikesoda78 » Jan 16 2022 10:13am

I just want a realistic boost in speed and even 28mph sounds good to me. Any advice to approach 28mph

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by Chalo » Jan 16 2022 11:06am

ebikesoda78 wrote:
Jan 16 2022 10:13am
I just want a realistic boost in speed and even 28mph sounds good to me. Any advice to approach 28mph
You can probably keep the motor you have. First step to Class 3 e-bike performance would be getting a 48V 35A controller, but that presupposes your battery can put out 35A. If not, you're limited to however much current your battery can supply. (The KT controllers I use let you limit maximum current, so you could still use a 35A model.)

Depending on how fast your motor wants to run at the voltage you have, you might be able to turn up the speed quite a bit without adding any power at all (that is, if the stock controller is doing electronic speed limiting). On the other hand, if your motor is the key limiting factor of your top speed, then you won't go much faster unless you use higher voltage.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by E-HP » Jan 16 2022 11:48am

So the website specs are sparse, but looks like a 750W motor with 65NM torque at 48V. So tweaking parameters on the Grin simulator, using a Bafang 750W geared motor as an approximation, 60V could get you their if your battery and controller can supply 20A-25A or so continuously. So replace the controller and battery to support that voltage and current level. 60V is sort of an oddball voltage, somewhere between 16S and 18S, but if 18S, that's 66.6V nominal which might get you to 30mph. 30mph is much more realistically achievable on a budget than 40mph.
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... bopen=true
Ariel.jpg
Ariel.jpg (406.1 KiB) Viewed 734 times
These are based on the nominal voltage, so hot off the charger the bike would be faster (e.g. ~25mph on a fully charged 48V battery).

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by Chalo » Jan 16 2022 12:13pm

Here's an easy test you can do if your bike has a speed display. Hold the rear wheel off the ground and run the bike as fast as it will go on the throttle. Let it settle into a steady RPM before taking a reading.

If this is about the same top speed you get out on the road, then your controller is electronically limiting speed, and using an unrestricted controller will increase speed. If it's much faster than what you get while riding, then your top speed is power limited, and adding amps will increase speed. If it's a little faster, your top speed may be gear ratio limited, and increasing voltage will increase speed.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by ebikesoda78 » Jan 17 2022 12:29am

Chalo wrote:
Jan 16 2022 12:13pm
Here's an easy test you can do if your bike has a speed display. Hold the rear wheel off the ground and run the bike as fast as it will go on the throttle. Let it settle into a steady RPM before taking a reading.

If this is about the same top speed you get out on the road, then your controller is electronically limiting speed, and using an unrestricted controller will increase speed. If it's much faster than what you get while riding, then your top speed is power limited, and adding amps will increase speed. If it's a little faster, your top speed may be gear ratio limited, and increasing voltage will increase speed.
I'm only being limited by my controller have already confirmed

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by ebikesoda78 » Jan 17 2022 12:31am

E-HP wrote:
Jan 16 2022 11:48am
So the website specs are sparse, but looks like a 750W motor with 65NM torque at 48V. So tweaking parameters on the Grin simulator, using a Bafang 750W geared motor as an approximation, 60V could get you their if your battery and controller can supply 20A-25A or so continuously. So replace the controller and battery to support that voltage and current level. 60V is sort of an oddball voltage, somewhere between 16S and 18S, but if 18S, that's 66.6V nominal which might get you to 30mph. 30mph is much more realistically achievable on a budget than 40mph.
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... bopen=true
Ariel.jpg
These are based on the nominal voltage, so hot off the charger the bike would be faster (e.g. ~25mph on a fully charged 48V battery).
Where would you recommend I get a kt 35a with display and Julet connectors. Also a 60v batt pack? Any recommended bags to mount battery pack? Also what top speed with a 48v stock battery I'll be swapping both batteries if 60v dies.

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by E-HP » Jan 17 2022 10:48am

ebikesoda78 wrote:
Jan 17 2022 12:31am
Where would you recommend I get a kt 35a with display and Julet connectors. Also a 60v batt pack? Any recommended bags to mount battery pack? Also what top speed with a 48v stock battery I'll be swapping both batteries if 60v dies.
ebikesoda78 wrote:
Jan 15 2022 12:32pm
There is currently no adjustable display for the rideal except for the eggrider which is expensive.
Sorry, can't help. Sounds like you may have some budget constraints that you haven't mentioned, so until that's sorted out, perhaps someone else can provide suggestions.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by Chalo » Jan 17 2022 12:03pm

ebikesoda78 wrote:
Jan 17 2022 12:31am
Where would you recommend I get a kt 35a with display and Julet connectors.
The regular Julet 9 pin motor connector is only good for up to 22 amp controllers. To go higher, you'll need to transplant the plug with something that can take more current.

Maybe start with a 22A controller? It will give you your unrestricted top speed. https://www.ebay.com/itm/333917144435
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384062052968

Remember, your bike is constructed to be just good enough to go as fast as it already does. Turn up the speed, and its price point limitations will become much more obvious.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by 999zip999 » Jan 17 2022 2:36pm

Not knowing what controller you have or how many wires. But some have a speed limiter and the speed limiter is a black jts plug with one white wire from each side usually. But anytime I see a speed limiter it's almost always one white wire and if you disconnect the wire from each other you take off the speed limiting.
You mite find a thread on increasing your apps for you open up your controller fine your shunt and you wrap it with some copper wire and solder to lessin the resistance and increases the amps this could be dangerous though. As it looks you have no way to monitor the extra amps that is demanding on your battery. Anytime you start hot rodding your bike is like hot rodding your car more things break.

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by E-HP » Jan 18 2022 12:50am

You should consider just enjoying the bike you bought, which was designed to go the speed it goes. You could put a few thousand miles on it while planning your next bike, that will have suspension so you can go faster safely. You need at least front suspension if you're going over 20 mph. If you ride regularly over 35 mph, you need full suspension.

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by ebikesoda78 » Jan 18 2022 9:00am

E-HP wrote:
Jan 18 2022 12:50am
You should consider just enjoying the bike you bought, which was designed to go the speed it goes. You could put a few thousand miles on it while planning your next bike, that will have suspension so you can go faster safely. You need at least front suspension if you're going over 20 mph. If you ride regularly over 35 mph, you need full suspension.
I already ordered the new 22a controller shi

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by ebikesoda78 » Jan 18 2022 9:07am

E-HP wrote:
Jan 18 2022 12:50am
You should consider just enjoying the bike you bought, which was designed to go the speed it goes. You could put a few thousand miles on it while planning your next bike, that will have suspension so you can go faster safely. You need at least front suspension if you're going over 20 mph. If you ride regularly over 35 mph, you need full suspension.
I can always get a refund lol but it was 70$.... I'm just gonna do it some people upgraded their rad bikes more then this lol. Most rad power bikes go 25mph and fellow YouTuber randy rides put an egg rider on the rideal to make it go 25mph. I can always limit the current with the new lcd and all so I don't need to really worry. Some people modify their bikes with the 35a controller but it was my understanding they did those mods to more robust rad bikes like the rover.

It's been shown the current controller is limited by the display with no controls. Like the one on the rad mission! It does 25mph with an unrestricted speed limiter at max amp output for the 17a controller.

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by ebikesoda78 » Jan 18 2022 9:35am

Chalo wrote:
Jan 17 2022 12:03pm
ebikesoda78 wrote:
Jan 17 2022 12:31am
Where would you recommend I get a kt 35a with display and Julet connectors.
The regular Julet 9 pin motor connector is only good for up to 22 amp controllers. To go higher, you'll need to transplant the plug with something that can take more current.

Maybe start with a 22A controller? It will give you your unrestricted top speed. https://www.ebay.com/itm/333917144435
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384062052968

Remember, your bike is constructed to be just good enough to go as fast as it already does. Turn up the speed, and its price point limitations will become much more obvious.
I just ordered those exact two things you linked me thanks!!!! I only need to swap my female battery connector from Anderson to 2 prong thing can't find name lol. The only other person to modify rideal was able to get a top speed of 25mph and it was a stable ride luckily. I understand you I tried ordering a vsett 10+: full suspension, and dual hydraulics. (40mph) I had to return it but I still have a bike to work on for now

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by E-HP » Jan 18 2022 10:14am

ebikesoda78 wrote:
Jan 18 2022 9:07am
E-HP wrote:
Jan 18 2022 12:50am
You should consider just enjoying the bike you bought, which was designed to go the speed it goes. You could put a few thousand miles on it while planning your next bike, that will have suspension so you can go faster safely. You need at least front suspension if you're going over 20 mph. If you ride regularly over 35 mph, you need full suspension.
I can always get a refund lol but it was 70$.... I'm just gonna do it some people upgraded their rad bikes more then this lol. Most rad power bikes go 25mph and fellow YouTuber randy rides put an egg rider on the rideal to make it go 25mph. I can always limit the current with the new lcd and all so I don't need to really worry. Some people modify their bikes with the 35a controller but it was my understanding they did those mods to more robust rad bikes like the rover.

It's been shown the current controller is limited by the display with no controls. Like the one on the rad mission! It does 25mph with an unrestricted speed limiter at max amp output for the 17a controller.
Just to set some realistic expectations, if the guy on the video unlocked the speed limit, and was able to do 25mph, then that's likely the top speed the motor can do with the stock battery voltage regardless of how many amps the controller can provide.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by Chalo » Jan 18 2022 11:14am

ebikesoda78 wrote:
Jan 18 2022 9:35am
I only need to swap my female battery connector from Anderson to 2 prong thing can't find name lol.
Better to put Anderson Powerpoles on the controller, don't you think? That's what I do, anyway.

Remember to get a 4 in 1 extension cable if there isn't already one on your bike.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by fatboy72 » Jan 18 2022 11:23am

OP wanted to go with 60v battery but can the KT-35A controller able to handle 60v?

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by ebikesoda78 » Jan 18 2022 11:28am

fatboy72 wrote:
Jan 18 2022 11:23am
OP wanted to go with 60v battery but can the KT-35A controller able to handle 60v?
It's not required I think this bike would be too fast with 60v

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by ebikesoda78 » Jan 19 2022 12:02pm

E-HP wrote:
Jan 18 2022 10:14am
ebikesoda78 wrote:
Jan 18 2022 9:07am
E-HP wrote:
Jan 18 2022 12:50am
You should consider just enjoying the bike you bought, which was designed to go the speed it goes. You could put a few thousand miles on it while planning your next bike, that will have suspension so you can go faster safely. You need at least front suspension if you're going over 20 mph. If you ride regularly over 35 mph, you need full suspension.
I can always get a refund lol but it was 70$.... I'm just gonna do it some people upgraded their rad bikes more then this lol. Most rad power bikes go 25mph and fellow YouTuber randy rides put an egg rider on the rideal to make it go 25mph. I can always limit the current with the new lcd and all so I don't need to really worry. Some people modify their bikes with the 35a controller but it was my understanding they did those mods to more robust rad bikes like the rover.

It's been shown the current controller is limited by the display with no controls. Like the one on the rad mission! It does 25mph with an unrestricted speed limiter at max amp output for the 17a controller.
Just to set some realistic expectations, if the guy on the video unlocked the speed limit, and was able to do 25mph, then that's likely the top speed the motor can do with the stock battery voltage regardless of how many amps the controller can provide.
The stock controller is limited to 17amps max but the new one does 22 amps. 48 x 22 = 1,056w and 48 x 17 = 860w so the upgraded controller gives an upgrade of 200 or so watts which should help performance out a little

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by E-HP » Jan 19 2022 12:18pm

ebikesoda78 wrote:
Jan 19 2022 12:02pm
The stock controller is limited to 17amps max but the new one does 22 amps. 48 x 22 = 1,056w and 48 x 17 = 860w so the upgraded controller gives an upgrade of 200 or so watts which should help performance out a little
Yes, additional power may provide a performance bump, as in the form of acceleration, riding up a hill or into a headwind, but probably not top speed (compared to just lifting any artificially imposed speed limit)

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Re: Want to upgrade Ariel Rider Rideal: Controller advice?

Post by Steven Sheng » Jan 22 2022 1:16am

ebikesoda78 wrote:
Jan 16 2022 10:13am
I just want a realistic boost in speed and even 28mph sounds good to me. Any advice to approach 28mph
a 48V 35Ah controller

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