tsdz2 vs cys stealth

Denal

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Hi I'm new here, just looking on some advice on what I should purchase.

I don't own a car. I bike everywhere atm, work, groceries, fun, etc. My bikes are my primary mode of transportation. Never rode a ebike before but I've done a lot of reading/research. I like riding my bike, and I like the exercise. However sometimes weather sucks (wind, cold winters etc) or I'm running late or in a rush and need/want to get to my destination faster.

I'm trying to decided between the tsdz2 (48/52v) and the cyc x1 stealth.

My requirements are the following
1. I think I would prefer a torque sensor, I like pedaling, I like my bike. I just want some extra help sometimes. Not interested in a motorcycle or throttle etc.

2. I would like a motor that I could go 20-24mph (faster is better I guess). I think this is fast enough that I'm not going to feel like I'm going to die, and I'm not going to take too long to get to my destination. I can hit these speeds on my bikes sometimes (max speed for trip), but my average speed is much lower (12-13mph).

3. I would like the bike to be able to be used as a normal bike. Not insanely heavy that I would never want to pedal it, or have crazy gearing that is only meant for speed. I would like it to be kinda stealthy, where people might not even realize I'm on a ebike. I like the lower gearing of my mountain bike (22/30/40t front,11-36t 9spd rear) vs my road bike (30/39/50t front, 11-28t rear). On windy days it doesn't really matter if I just go down another gear and take a bit longer to get to work.

4. I'm going to be putting it on a 2019 Kona Lava dome. This bike is pretty much stock atm. I like it more than my road bike for its stability, comfort, gearing, and it has hydraulic brakes. The current 3x in the front meets my daily speed requirements and the lower gearing makes wind, hills, days when I'm tired easier. Obviously I will be losing the 3x for a motor so ill need to figure out what chain ring makes sense, I think 36-42t? It has 29er 2.25 tires is this sufficient or winter/snow?

https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/value-guide/product/3082007/

5. Looking for a 30 mile range (no throttle). My current commute to work is 6 miles, so 12 miles a day. I would like some extra power so I could still run other errands and not have to worry about running dry. Also I would like to have this range while only charging the battery to 80% and not dropping below 20% for battery health.

6. Cost is a factor. I'm not broke, I make a good income, I'm just cheap/not sure if I'm going to like it/its my first ebike. Also I want to consider theft/replacement cost etc. I've never had a bike stolen, I'm just paranoid. I have a heavy duty ABUS Granit X-Plus 540 U-Lock and a ABUS Bordo lite folding lock.

I'm mostly leaning towards the tsdz2 (48/52v) as its cheaper $1100 with shipping, includes battery (52v 13ah) for $375. I think it still meets my power/speed/usage requirements. While the cyc stealth looks like a more well put together product I think its overkill for my purpose and more expensive ($1500 from electrifybike includes 52v 14ah $500 battery). I was going to order the tsdz2 from eco-ebike.com with the heat sink, temp sensor, open source firmware, brake sensor, qfactor cranks, and battery (52v 13ah). I haven't looked into batteries much yet so battery might change. I think keeping the blue gear is probably a good idea and I noticed they don't offer a shifting sensor which I thought was important for a mid drive. Not sure how important this is if I just stop pedaling when I shift.

If there's anything I missed let me know. If you think there's a better option or the tsdz2 isn't right for my purpose/usage let me know. My main worry with the tsdz2 is reliability/it breaking vs the cyc stealth being more reliable.

Thanks
 
So having owned or tried both of these drives and done extensive research on them I think while they both have some real pros they are poor choices for a commuter style build. They are both never going to be as reliable as hub motor to which you can put a torque sensor bottom bracket on your frame and it will do all of those things.

These mid drives are great for off road recreational use, the TSDZ2 is cheap and decent enough for the price but has lots of known issues, issues that for many, including myself are fine when they come up but I don't NEED to ride the bike anywhere so I can fix them at my leisure. I mean just today my torque sensor went out on my TSDZ2. The CYC is certainly better built but it's designed for performance and is extremely high strung, everything about it is just at the limit of what is a good idea. This is exactly what you want out of a performance drive and exactly what you don't want out of a reliable commuter.

Meanwhile a suitably sized hub motor to accomplish those speeds, would not be overly heavy, be extremely reliable, would have no issues climbing up most roads unless you have some crazy unusually steep roads and you can just install a torque sensor to have all the nice torque assist. All of that while not putting additional stress on your driveline. And it will be stealthier both visually and noise wise. The TSDZ2 is very quiet, the CYC is not terrible but does make some noise, a direct drive hub is nearly silent.

There is a lot of rhetoric it seems around hub vs mid drives and it's kinda stupid because it all depends. I wouldn't trade a mid drive for a hub on my mountain bike for anything but that is just an entirely different use case to roads and smooth trails. Roads and multiuse paths are just not that steep or rough, all that gearing is mostly wasted.
 
Hmmmm, I better tell my TSDZ2 with 3000 year round mikes in Minnesnowta thst it’ll be unreliable...parts are cheap, repairs are easy. Commuting and off road use are very different scenarios.
 
You are going to lose the triple in front if you install a mid-drive. So if you really like the gears for pedaling without a motor, that is going to change. The Q factor will also change with a mid-drive. I think you would be better off with a rear geared hub motor with a clutch instead of a mid-drive if you want it to feel more like a bike without a motor when you are pedaling and keep your current gearing. Although it can be argued that you need a lot less gears with the motor to help you up the hills. A geared hub motor and battery will add about 15 lbs to the bike, but otherwise should feel like riding a bike without a motor. The exception would be something like the Grin GMAC geared motor that doesn't have a clutch, but they do include programming to add a little power when coasting to compensate for the drag of the motor.
 
RunForTheHills said:
You are going to lose the triple in front if you install a mid-drive. So if you really like the gears for pedaling without a motor, that is going to change. The Q factor will also change with a mid-drive. I think you would be better off with a rear geared hub motor with a clutch instead of a mid-drive if you want it to feel more like a bike without a motor when you are pedaling and keep your current gearing. Although it can be argued that you need a lot less gears with the motor to help you up the hills. A geared hub motor and battery will add about 15 lbs to the bike, but otherwise should feel like riding a bike without a motor. The exception would be something like the Grin GMAC geared motor that doesn't have a clutch, but they do include programming to add a little power when coasting to compensate for the drag of the motor.

I’d have to agree. After most of a decade riding and supporting mid drives I’ve transitioned to MAC motors and not Grin 9C and all Grin controllers with CA3’s. I’m extremely happy I made the change. I did keep my 2014 BBS01’s but they’re only ridden on a multi use path around a local lake that’s to busy for speeds over 10-12MPH. I sometimes miss my 3 BBSHD’s but now in my 7th decade I’m a much slower rider. 33mph was fun but it’s just to fast for me at my age and slowed reaction times. I will say losing gearing is not an issue, and Q factors never much bothered me.
 
tomjasz said:
I’d have to agree. After most of a decade riding and supporting mid drives I’ve transitioned to MAC motors and not Grin 9C and all Grin controllers with CA3’s. I’m extremely happy I made the change. I did keep my 2014 BBS01’s but they’re only ridden on a multi use path around a local lake that’s to busy for speeds over 10-12MPH. I sometimes miss my 3 BBSHD’s but now in my 7th decade I’m a much slower rider. 33mph was fun but it’s just to fast for me at my age and slowed reaction times. I will say losing gearing is not an issue, and Q factors never much bothered me.

It sucks to get old, but it happens to all of us.

MTA: The OP mentioned that he doesn't want a throttle. If you want a torque sensor with a hub motor, you are probably going to need a CAv3 from Grin. Otherwise, most kits just include PAS that is based on the pedals spinning and not how much pressure you put on the pedals.
 
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