My first wheel lace job

gobi

10 kW
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
540
I picked up a couple of QS 212s, bare hubs.
Inspired by Eastwood's builds, I wanted to try my hand at lacing a wheel for my next builds.

Wheels - Chrome 19 inch moped rim
Spokes - 11 g aliexpress (not sure of awg, bought these way late at night and have no recollection as to what I ordered)
Edit - I measured the diameter of the spoke = 3.11 mm/0.1225 inch

The chrome wheel came with some rust, should have painted it with some rust oleum prior to lacing, ah well.

Lacing:
Dang, I had too much fun lacing the wheel, it took me 4 tries to get it right, but I did it, lacing was fun.

I got stuck in trying to torque the spokes, I did not want to drop money into buying a spoke torque thing. So I bust out my wheeler torque screw driver and used it to torque as much as I could

It is hard to torque it with the wheeler, I think I torqued it to 8 inch/lb and my girly fingers are not capable of more.

How much torque:
from stuff I read, moto spokes need about 30 inch/lb ???
should I settle for 10 inch/lb or go higher?


Prep:
I used marine grease at the nipples to lube them up.

Rim Prep:
I used the thin band I bought plus a lot of hockey tape to prep the rim.
 

Attachments

  • lace_3.jpg
    lace_3.jpg
    175.6 KB · Views: 856
  • lace_2.jpg
    lace_2.jpg
    155.6 KB · Views: 856
  • lace_1.jpg
    lace_1.jpg
    219.3 KB · Views: 856
I'm thinking of lacing my first hub soon.

You don't mention how you calculated spoke length?

Did you use an online calculator?

Did you just use existing info on the rim or did you measure it yourself?
 
Leading spokes should always go behind trailing spoke on the first cross.

So many people get this wrong. It looks like you didn't good job.

10g is a little overkill for that little hub I use 12g just fine. It might be a little tough to tension. Make sure you relieve the spokes around themselves with a stick or by standing on the wheel sideways.

Relieve the tension by standing on the wheel while it's on its side and then check tension again.

How many holes are in that hub motor? Looks like you got extra.

19x 1.50.... that's weird I never saw a 1.5 before I've seen 1.4 and 1.6 but I've never seen a 1.5.
 
Good job.
Looking at the pictures I would comment the spokes are a bit short.
To achieve full strength of the nipple the spokes should come flush to the end of the nipple.
Probably a minor thing if the wheel is lightly used however the way they are now leaves the nipple head vulnerable to breaking off.
Especially if there is a sharp edge on the rim holes.
(( First step to wheel building is to de-burr all spoke holes in the rim ))
Tapping the spokes and listening for all to have the same musical tone is a useful method to verify tension.
 
That is a nice, shiny, unscratched new motor you have there.
Should not be long before you start decorating your nice new hub motor with scratches.
Scratches are good, means the hub motor is being used. You definitely do not want to baby it ;)
Not with motorcycle/moped tires & rims :lol:
A sign that someone means business, without even looking at the beefiness the QS 212 has.


gobi said:
[Attached pic]
 
DogDipstick said:
Leading spokes should always go behind trailing spoke on the first cross.

So many people get this wrong. It looks like you didn't good job.

10g is a little overkill for that little hub I use 12g just fine. It might be a little tough to tension. Make sure you relieve the spokes around themselves with a stick or by standing on the wheel sideways.

Relieve the tension by standing on the wheel while it's on its side and then check tension again.

How many holes are in that hub motor? Looks like you got extra.

19x 1.50.... that's weird I never saw a 1.5 before I've seen 1.4 and 1.6 but I've never seen a 1.5.

Could you tell me how I figure out which one is the leading spoke?

I measured the spokes, they are 11g, ok, relieve tension, I will put together a pine wood box to site the hub to work on this.

The QS hub as extra smaller holes inbetween the 36 bigger spoke holes, not sure why.

Inventory was slim and I bought what I could find... 19x1.5 is good?



kudos said:
I'm thinking of lacing my first hub soon.

You don't mention how you calculated spoke length?

Did you use an online calculator?

Did you just use existing info on the rim or did you measure it yourself?

Grin calculator, Grin youtube videos.

ERD - this was my first obstacle, my rim did not come with a factory spec which had the ERD listed,
I love kites and I bought a few from costco and these have LONG splines, I used one of those splines to measure the ERD (see pic)
and I used the measurement off QS specs and just plugged them in.

If I had to do it again, I would buy a set of cheap 12g spokes (LONG ones) and lace the wheel 6 or 8 of them (each side) and then mark them and then measure each one and then take the average of all.
 

Attachments

  • bike_erd_spoke.jpg
    bike_erd_spoke.jpg
    301.3 KB · Views: 761
gobi said:
Could you tell me how I figure out which one is the leading spoke?

In conventional wheel building terminology, "leading" spokes are those that tilt in the direction of the wheel's rotation (clockwise on the right, counter-clockwise on the left). The opposite are called "trailing" spokes.

There's no industry-wide consensus on lacing patterns, but I put trailing spokes outside the flange and leading spokes inside the flange when I do ordinary bicycle wheels. This makes the wheel tend to eject foreign objects that jam against the spokes, rather than pulling them in and munching them.

However, when I lace hub motors, I usually lace all the spokes on the same side of the flange (which is feasible for radial and cross-1 patterns). This allows me to increase bracing angle on symmetrical hubs, or to mitigate the dish of asymmetrical hubs.
 
PaPaSteve said:
Good job.
Looking at the pictures I would comment the spokes are a bit short.
To achieve full strength of the nipple the spokes should come flush to the end of the nipple.
Probably a minor thing if the wheel is lightly used however the way they are now leaves the nipple head vulnerable to breaking off.
Especially if there is a sharp edge on the rim holes.
(( First step to wheel building is to de-burr all spoke holes in the rim ))
Tapping the spokes and listening for all to have the same musical tone is a useful method to verify tension.

Length of spoke:
You are correct, #4 spoke seems to be the shortest or has the most gap from the bottom of the nipple, while #1 is nearly flush.

I am not sure why, all the spoke are of the same length but this pattern repeats, probably something to do with the angle/lacing pattern?

Deburr spoke holes on the Rim:
The aluminum rim seems to have somewhat smooth holes but the chromes does have a sharp edge,
How much of this should I deburr aka knock down?
Should I run a dremel stone for a few secs?
 

Attachments

  • deburr_2.jpg
    deburr_2.jpg
    147.2 KB · Views: 679
  • deburr_1.jpg
    deburr_1.jpg
    148.9 KB · Views: 679
calab said:
That is a nice, shiny, unscratched new motor you have there.
Should not be long before you start decorating your nice new hub motor with scratches.
Scratches are good, means the hub motor is being used. You definitely do not want to baby it ;)
Not with motorcycle/moped tires & rims :lol:
A sign that someone means business, without even looking at the beefiness the QS 212 has.


gobi said:
[Attached pic]
Looking forward to riding a full suspension with moto/moped tires (4 ply)
Hope I don't get too many scratches :)
 
Chalo said:
gobi said:
Could you tell me how I figure out which one is the leading spoke?

In conventional wheel building terminology, "leading" spokes are those that tilt in the direction of the wheel's rotation (clockwise on the right, counter-clockwise on the left). The opposite are called "trailing" spokes.

There's no industry-wide consensus on lacing patterns, but I put trailing spokes outside the flange and leading spokes inside the flange when I do ordinary bicycle wheels. This makes the wheel tend to eject foreign objects that jam against the spokes, rather than pulling them in and munching them.

However, when I lace hub motors, I usually lace all the spokes on the same side of the flange (which is feasible for radial and cross-1 patterns). This allows me to increase bracing angle on symmetrical hubs, or to mitigate the dish of asymmetrical hubs.

I kinda sorta understand the leading spoke concept,

Gotcha, I watched quite a few lacing videos and then it took me 4 tries to get this done, The spoke are thick, like 11g and this is the ONLY pattern that I could make them fit. Each spoke had to over/under alternating else it does not fit.

I used this video as a guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrRl2FyNTw

So the leading spoke should be on top and lean away from the direction of rotation?
 
No scratches come on don't be a sissy spill some beer on it I hope a dog pisses on it in the first week use the thing I hate people that have those fancy cars and they won't get out of third gear.
I say this because I go for the homeless look I'm going to park my bike next to yours it probably works about the same but they'll take yours and leave my ugly bike alone
What motor and battery do you have and what frame are you putting that in.
Now tell me about your Italian shoes the pointed ones with the red soles

1660953885874936091158429297760.jpg

I tired to put lipstick on it but it won't stick.
 
999zip999 said:
I say this because I go for the homeless look I'm going to park my bike next to yours it probably works about the same but they'll take yours and leave my ugly bike alone
1660953885874936091158429297760.jpg

I tired to put lipstick on it but it won't stick.

I feel a lot better about my chain now that I know it helps to deter thieves. I messed up by lubing it a few week's ago, but I won't do that again. I need to find a way to incorporate more plywood...
:thumb:


But, to really go for the homeless look, add a big half dome rear fender and paint it flat black. Lyft, Jump, Lime, they all have them, and every large homeless camp has at least two of those bikes. I suggest getting a Lyft style, it's already black, and you can just add scratches. That way shiny motor and rim won't stand out so much.

11614837_030222-kgo-shutterstock-lyft-bike-img.jpg


actually, you could just add one of those fenders to any bike, and it would probably make them grab the other bike.
 
What rim do you have the blue one or the chrome one. I was going down the road and had to stop fast my vale stem rip off and all air came out at once and the slime lubed the tire and rim when braking and rim stopped and lubed tire rotated and crashed bad. 1 hr later woke up in hospital.
It has a xtr rim, but still cut or the valve stem just ripped from 4,000 watts ,but that on the rear.? I don't think slime tube have the best rubber.
I will not over look the valve stem area again.
How much was the motor shipped to your house ?
What bike you putting it in ?
 
999zip999 said:
What rim do you have the blue one or the chrome one. I was going down the road and had to stop fast my vale stem rip off and all air came out at once and the slime lubed the tire and rim when braking and rim stopped and lubed tire rotated and crashed bad. 1 hr later woke up in hospital.
It has a xtr rim, but still cut or the valve stem just ripped from 4,000 watts ,but that on the rear.? I don't think slime tube have the best rubber.
I will not over look the valve stem area again.
How much was the motor shipped to your house ?
What bike you putting it in ?

Accidents are not a "if" thing, more like "when" thing.
Hope you are fully healed from that nasty event.

What wheel, tube and tire - has been confusing to say the least for newbie like moi. I went with moped/moto wheels, and same for tires and heavy duty tubes. The valve stem is all steel with lock nuts.

I plan inflating the tires to near max the rated psi.

Lips stick - my girls routinely put nail polish on my nails, now that they are older they don't do it as often. Many years back my youngest insisted on putting makeup on me. :mrgreen:

Motor: QS had these listed on amazon, so they are quite well priced, 240$ each shipped to West Michigan. I wish they would list more items on amazon/ebay. I don't look forward to paying exorbitant shipping.

I have 2 builds in mind:
1. The lighty tighty:
Mongoose Blackcomb + QS 212 + 19 moped rim + 48v 15ah 30 Amp max batt + Flipsky VESC
Plan to get this going with 48v batt and then work on building a 80v 22s LFE pouch cell battery. I have not figured the battery yet, to make things look stealth and not stick out.

Frame - found an old blackcomb for $50, fork is shot and bit of rust everywhere. Good donor. Bought a cheap new Rockshox air fork of amazon.
I have been reading up on TORQUE PLATES and plan on drawing one on CADish software and have it laser cut by a local store. My head in bit spinning on the options on this.

VESC: I bought an off the shell ESR cap voltage spike thing but the caps are 50v (castle product, pana FM caps) I will use this to

2. Enduro Stealth:
Enduro frame, 17 motor rear wheel + Far Driver ND72530 + LG Lipo pouch cell 20s
Can't bring myself to spend the $$$ on a triple tree fork, looking at retro fitting moped fork but they look bit short.

Not sure if I will put in peddle vs foot peds. Need to read up on MI laws.

This will be my winter/spring build, don't have all the components yet.
 
Rims:

1. Treatland italian made chrome moped rim - 19 inch one
2. Ebay used motor bike rim chrome - 17 inch
Dunlop brand??? looks better than the one I bought new off trealand, lol
3. Blue - Prowheels off road racing alu rim - 19 inch
this one is pretty beefy, it is wider than the chrome moped 19 inch above.

I think I will paint the chrome wheels black with rustoleum as they both have some rust around the welds and other spots.
 
999zip999 said:
The motor is a 35mm magnet or. Did they give you a opi :( opinion for a controller ?
Do you have any make-up pics.

35mm mags I believe,
nope, I never asked,
I plan on spraying anti rust and then adding ferro from grin.

Both motors are 5T,

One I will use with flipsky 75100 vesc
other with a KT or Far driver.
Can't wait to tinker with the vesc.

lol, no pics of makeup, :D
 
Chalo said:
gobi said:
Could you tell me how I figure out which one is the leading spoke?

In conventional wheel building terminology, "leading" spokes are those that tilt in the direction of the wheel's rotation (clockwise on the right, counter-clockwise on the left). The opposite are called "trailing" spokes.

There's no industry-wide consensus on lacing patterns, but I put trailing spokes outside the flange and leading spokes inside the flange when I do ordinary bicycle wheels. This makes the wheel tend to eject foreign objects that jam against the spokes, rather than pulling them in and munching them.

However, when I lace hub motors, I usually lace all the spokes on the same side of the flange (which is feasible for radial and cross-1 patterns). This allows me to increase bracing angle on symmetrical hubs, or to mitigate the dish of asymmetrical hubs.

Lacing job take #2:

Chalo, I think I finally understand the leading/trailing spoke concept,

I am going to take off the spokes and redo it [5th attempt :mrgreen: ], I will try to put the spoke on the same side of the hub flange first. I have a feeling they will not cross over and bend nicely.

Spoke length:
I measured the depth at the nipple end and I have 1.1 mm to 3.7 mm, so my spokes are short,
I ordered 3 mm plus the original length, which comes to 124mm
 
Back
Top