Searching for a spare/upgrade controller

E-HP

10 GW
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I popped some of the FETs in my controller yesterday, while messing around tuning my throttle ramp rates. I was slowing the ramp little by little, to just below where the bike would wheelie from a stop or low speeds. I almost had it perfect when I twisted the throttle and the motor let out an ugly groaning sound. I let off and gave a little throttle and the motor groaned and shuttered. I shut the bike down, and powered it back on after waiting a few seconds. The CA came on, but throttle did nothing. I tired pedaling it, and felt a bunch of resistance. No way to pedal home like that, so I disconnected the phase wires, which freed up the wheel. I ended up pedaling home; I have to remember to only do that kind of testing near home, instead of after riding two towns over. :| Checked the controller when I got home...after recuperating for a while, and sure enough, shorted.

I'm going to end up replacing the FETs since I like the controller, but I think I'm going to shop for a comparable spare controller now, in case the damage is more extensive or if parts aren't easy to get.

I'd like to find something with the following specs. The max dimensions for height and width can't be exceeded, but some of the other specs are more flexible. I really would like to stay below $300 and not have to wait too long to get it; even though realistically, this could just turn into my winter upgrade.

I've found a couple that may work, linked at the bottom. I'd like to hear about what options are available besides what I've found so far.

Max Dimensions:
  • Height: 60mm; Width: 105mm; Length: unconstrained

Voltage:
  • Required: 14S to 20S; Desired: 13S to 22S

Current/Power:
  • 70A battery; 200A phase

Features:
  • Required:
    • Programmable
    • Sine Wave/FOC
    • 3-speed switch
    • Regen – any form, variable preferred, but force configurable - brake lever/variable/slip

  • Desired:
    • CA connector
    • Cruise control
  • Field weakening
[/list]

Cost:
  • $200, up to $300

Availability:
  • Receipt within ~4-6 weeks

Looks like this Far-Driver controller might work:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224979800204
but the shipping time could be pretty long.

This model has more power, and costs more, but the shipping time is decent. I don't think the dimensions will work though:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224904002867

I see a few threads on these controllers, although not these models, and I'm just starting to read them. I noticed they sell the same brand on the QSMotors website.

I also see some branded Votol that look similar in design. A Sabvoton or Kelly may meet the specs, except they are both too bulky for my purpose. The one I popped the FETs on is the 7kW PowerVelocity. I probably should have set some upper power limits before messing around :oops:
 
The flipsky 75100 is good deal and the aluminum one especially has shown well in testing.

Small. Runs the 75300 firmware (but surely can’t do the high amps for long that the firmware enables).
 
I couldn't stand having my bike sit in the garage while the weather says it should be out on the trail. I bought this cheap trap/square wave controller. Will do 20S, 45A, has a 3 speed switch, and cruise control; plus self learning. No regen. I also ordered some 6 pin JST connectors (wired), and a 100A external shunt. I believe by using an external shunt, all of the other wires needed to add a CA connector can be accessed from the outside of the controller. If I decide to shunt mod it, I won't have to recalibrate the CA.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MS143GY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Should be a quick swap and I can be riding while repairing my old controller and casually looking for a backup.
 
E-HP said:
I couldn't stand having my bike sit in the garage while the weather says it should be out on the trail. I bought this cheap trap/square wave controller. Will do 20S, 45A, has a 3 speed switch, and cruise control; plus self learning. No regen. I also ordered some 6 pin JST connectors (wired), and a 100A external shunt. I believe by using an external shunt, all of the other wires needed to add a CA connector can be accessed from the outside of the controller. If I decide to shunt mod it, I won't have to recalibrate the CA.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MS143GY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Should be a quick swap and I can be riding while repairing my old controller and casually looking for a backup.

I would miss not having PAS with that controller but everyone has a different riding style.
 
Diggs said:
E-HP said:
I couldn't stand having my bike sit in the garage while the weather says it should be out on the trail. I bought this cheap trap/square wave controller. Will do 20S, 45A, has a 3 speed switch, and cruise control; plus self learning. No regen. I also ordered some 6 pin JST connectors (wired), and a 100A external shunt. I believe by using an external shunt, all of the other wires needed to add a CA connector can be accessed from the outside of the controller. If I decide to shunt mod it, I won't have to recalibrate the CA.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MS143GY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Should be a quick swap and I can be riding while repairing my old controller and casually looking for a backup.

I would miss not having PAS with that controller but everyone has a different riding style.
That's what's nice about having a Cycle Analyst. Gives any controller PAS. Plus, only need it as a spare, so just have to live without regen for a while.
 
Ouch, that sucks but at least you got some life out of it. Imagine popping it right away when you first got the controller
:shock:
Controllers are like wives, you know every nuance, every lip move, every vibration, every noise, can hear it groan then moan.
 
I got the spare controller working after adding a CA connector. Using the external shunt, there were no wires that couldn't access externally to wire up the plug. Everything is working except my 3 position switch, which I'll need to swap out the molex connector for a JST to get it wired up, and wiring up my cruise control switch.
The square/trap wave wasn't as obnoxious as I had thought, and only give a slight ringing sound on take off, but not really noisy when cruising or accelerating once going over 10 mph or so. 45A is noticeably weaker for low and mid range acceleration, but the speed is there. The backup controller just doesn't have the phase amps under high loads. Also, noticeably weaker when throttling up a 15% grade, so basically anywhere high current is needed, it's noticeably weaker (but still way more torque than running 52V). All of this may change once the 3 position switch is hooked up and selecting high.
Missing regen is the biggest bummer, and I'm grabbing the brakes a lot more, so I'll need to finally replace my pads if I'm using the temporary setup for long.
 
I tried three time but had trouble communicating with them as they didn't return an email twice.
They have a controller with C.A. plus 3sp ECT if you ask.
I got a spare for now but also need a 72v 60amp or more. Keep me updated E-hp.
 
999zip999 said:
I tried free time but had trouble communicating with them as they didn't return an email twice.
They have a controller with C.A. plus 3sp ECT if you ask.
I got a spare for now but also need a 72v 60amp or more. Keep me updated E-hp.

Will do. Now that I've realized that these trap controllers aren't all that loud or obnoxious (I actually am starting to like the sound :shock: ), I'm going to start searching more on the higher powered ones. Seems like a lot of bang for the buck :thumb:
 
I did got a Lyen 9fet,12fet, and a 18fet I don't mine the noise. But I'm interested in a greentrime controller with 3sp and C.A. and off/on.
I have a 15fet and 18fet power velocity controllers sent back to be fixed with permission from Vad. But he will not answer phone or emails ? It been over a year.
 
I second a look at the Flipsky 75200, I had heard about them releasing it in the future but I guess they have officially now on their site. $206 for preorders and $229 reg, ships on the 31st of Aug. I plan to wait for some reviews before I make an official opinion but seems to be very capable with specs at 150a continuous at 75v (official specs say max 20s though I remember seeing someone ran the 75100 at 22s for a little bit) and peeks at 300a (I assume the higher value would be possible for longer that peaks if you added some cooling to it either with a extra heatsink and or fan). I wish flipsky would make a extra case in a more official ebike case for better cooling, wire management, and mounting for us folks that would have plans on putting it on a down tube. The original one looked great for this application but suffered from high temps due to the pcb design.
 
E-hp Thanks.I dug the 18fet Lyen and it wouldn't run my 1500 w edge right as after I replace the 4mm with 5.5mm . I found out the paper clip fell out of the ignition wire. So got it back on the 3,000w mxus and it almost popped a wheelie. It only at 50 amps can set to 65amps. But don't know how.
Thanks E-hp for making me dig it out.
 
999zip999 said:
I did got a Lyen 9fet,12fet, and a 18fet I don't mine the noise. But I'm interested in a greentrime controller with 3sp and C.A. and off/on.
I have a 15fet and 18fet power velocity controllers sent back to be fixed with permission from Vad. But he will not answer phone or emails ? It been over a year.
I charged up my battery to 82V and tried the temporary controller again. I jumpered the connector to High on the 3 position switch. I think it has some sort of soft start function built in. It seems to last a couple of seconds, then the bike surges, like turbo lag. Maybe that's field weakening kicking in. I even switched to bypass throttle mode and it still felt soft off the line. The CA measured 37.17A max, at 81V, so the controller might be limited on power to 3000W. "Rating" is 45A, 2000W, 48V-72V.

I should have researched the Greentime controllers first. The 24FET seems like it would be a good backup and closer in performance with my broken 18FET Powervelocity. Plus, shipping seems unusually fast. I noticed a few threads on hotrodding these by replacing the FETs.

I'm wondering what this one really is. Claims to be FOC. Has a soft start function, so maybe the hard start is responsive.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804064701261.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.298e38da0AS8V7&mp=1
 
E-HP said:
I charged up my battery to 82V and tried the temporary controller again. I jumpered the connector to High on the 3 position switch. I think it has some sort of soft start function built in. It seems to last a couple of seconds, then the bike surges, like turbo lag. Maybe that's field weakening kicking in.
If it's this controller
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1730391#p1730013
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MS143GY
then I don't see how it could have field weakening--that is a function of an FOC controller, AFAIK.

But soft start (vs instant start) can certainly take noticeable time to respond--but it's typically faster than a couple of seconds for most of the controllers I've worked with or read about. If this one takes that much time to ramp up output to match demand from the control input, it's unusual.

I even switched to bypass throttle mode and it :twisted: still felt soft off the line.
Did it still take the same amount of time to ramp up? If not, the ramping settings in the CA can be changed to fix the delay in the CA itself. (I use 99v/s, or whatever the fastest ramp time is, so the only delay in the system is whatever the controller itself creates, and any computing time in the CA to translate throttle voltage input range into controller voltage input range--it makes things much easier to control, for me, when they actually respond when I change the control input).


I'm wondering what this one really is. Claims to be FOC. Has a soft start function, so maybe the hard start is responsive.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804064701261.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.298e38da0AS8V7&mp=1
If it's FOC, it should have some configuration software so you can setup the motor parameters in it. Or it has some sort of autolearn function that can be triggered by the end user, such as non-FOC controllers do to learn the hall/phase combination.

Without that, AFAIK an FOC controller doesn't know what the motor is actually doing with the field, and it won't run it like it should, unless the motor characteristics (inductance, resistance, kV, number of poles, etc) all happen to match what the controller is already setup to work with.

My bet is it is just a plain sinewave (if even that) controller, and like many sellers of many products, they've tacked on a cool buzzword or two that sells stuff onto the ad but doesn't actually apply to it.


There are at least two reviews on the page that say it isn't quiet, which means it's either not sine (in which case it is also not FOC) or it is FOC with no motor setup function so it's just throwing current at the motor and hoping for the best, but it doesn't align with the motor's reaction to the current so it makes much more noise than it should.
 
Agreed, not FOC. In fact, I can't even tell a difference jumpering the 3-speed switch between low medium and high. I think this is my brief foray into trap controllers, and I've decided they aren't so bad, but very obnoxious when starting on a grade, where the noise just sounds wrong. Performs fine, and starting on flat ground just produces a slight ringing sound. Still, I probably wouldn't hesitate if my choices were limited and if I could find a cheap 80A one. It's doing the job, albeit with less punch, and some odd mid range behavior when accelerating. I switched the CA to bypass, and it's definitely the controller, but switching also let me figure out some other odd throttle behavior, which I got rid of by switching off the fast throttle ramp parameter in the CA.

So, now I'm looking at two more cheap options, one of them suggested on this thread. I'm looking at this cheap sine wave, supposedly 80A controller from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/GFHFG-Controller-60V-72V-Brushless-Sinusoidal/dp/B091GL8HQH/ref=sr_1_10?content-id=amzn1.sym.8f2c082b-be39-4888-bf5e-407b706b5488&keywords=3000w+ebike+controller&pd_rd_r=69a1a054-00ee-4875-a478-73bc396dd4ab&pd_rd_w=qlFvB&pd_rd_wg=WCNMS&pf_rd_p=8f2c082b-be39-4888-bf5e-407b706b5488&pf_rd_r=VT4E628EHWGDMSDK2NZM&qid=1662184652&sr=8-10

And this Flipsky VESC controller: https://www.amazon.com/flipsky-Electric-Skateboard-Scooter-Controller/dp/B09J4SV7G5/ref=sr_1_50_sspa?crid=EAR3N6XQJ6HS&keywords=4000w+motor+controller&qid=1662215572&sprefix=4000w+motor+controller%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-50-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE5R0pVSzJPVEVDUyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRJZD1BMDMxMjAzNzJFUFJUWERHSDFMSkUmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDYwMTI1NDE5MFYwM1RRQ0lZTEUmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGZfbmV4dCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

I'm leaning toward getting the Flipsky since it could be here tomorrow, and the FOC and regen make it attractive, and it seems to monitor the FET temps and can rollback when needed. I can't tell if it supports cruise control, but I haven't researched much yet. If the amps are battery amps, I think the 100A version would be sufficient for my needs. For both, I can't verify that the ratings are in battery amps, but I think they are for the Flipsky. Of course the size is nice since it won't be hard to find a mounting location, but the other cheap sine wave is fairly compact as well.
 
999zip999 said:
What kind of display does it support ? The flipsky.

I'm going to be using my Cycle Analyst, but looking on YouTube, seems like there are bluetooth apps that work as a display; the one I linked says it supports bluetooth, but I'm still researching. It does seem to possibly support a display, given the connector (comm) seems to include some of the signals that it would need. I saw one that indicated it supports an actual display though in the description.
This one, not the one I'm considering, has the bluetooth app that you can see in the second half of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4dAjWkzDhk

EDIT: I see the 17 page thread on the 75100, so I have some reading to do.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=113445
 
999zip999 said:
I remember that flipsky had some early problems for people. I like the greentrime 18fet as it has 3sp C.A. and off on plug if asked.

Well I ordered one (Flipsky) and it arrives today. Might as well try a VESC w/FOC to round things out. Have to read up on programming it. I could be good, or not.

From what I'm reading, the 120A max is the max phase current, which is a real bummer...but is it. Yes, 200A-250A would be great, and would be a good match with my old controller in performance, but I put the info into the Grin simulator, and think potentially in real world riding, it may have an advantage.

Looking at the torque curve, most of the torque advantage of the PV controller is not used in normal riding, since anything over 100NM of the line will lift the front wheel, which you can control by leaning way over the bars, but that's not how I ride around normally. Between 0 to 10mph, the CA is programmed for a slow throttle ramp in my normal mode, but still lots of acceleration. Because of the hard limit on phase current, the Flipsky shows 110 NM from 0 to 37mph.

PV vs VESC.jpg

But at 18mph, the Flipsky keeps accelerating hard, while the PV torque is dropping off, and has a huge advantage up to 40mph. This range, between 18mph and 32mph or so, is the "fun" range with my PV controller, because of the way it pulls in the midrange. It looks like the Flipsky will be even more fun in that range, which is the range that I'd want if riding around cars. So my thought is, while 0 to 30 times may be impacted, if no limits are applied to the throttle, in the real world, the Flipsky may work great for my riding.

Here's the thrust curve. I also graphed out a comparison of acceleration and it looks like 0 to 40 may be a dead heat, but the acceleration/torque of the Flipsky may be in a more usable range for my riding.
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&batt=cust_80_0.05_24&cont=cust_70_200_0.03_V&hp=0&axis=mph&frame=mountain&autothrot=false&throt=100&grade=0&wheel=25i&mass=110&bopen=true&cont_b=cust_100_120_0.03_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_80_0.05_24&wheel_b=25i&mass_b=110&hp_b=0&blue=Lbs
 
P.V. as in power velocity . I bought two controllers from him. All have stop working. I asked for Vald to look at them he said yes. He has had them for a year and will not answer emails or phone calls.
I read some bad thing's about greentrime a E.S thread.
I guess controllers without instructions and some don't even have proper wiring diagrams
Or when pushing things thinks go south ?
 
I think the flipsky 75100 runs the Vesc 75300 firmware and can be programmed as high as 200 or 300 amps phase and battery current. Not that it can sustain that. The programming should be very easy as it uses the standard Vesc interface

The other flipsky 75100 version with the aluminum pcb that’s available has shown much better at dissipating heat. From the experiences of others it seems worth opening what u have and gluing caps down and insulating the battery wires better as they come out to avoid shorting to the case.
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
I think the flipsky 75100 runs the Vesc 75300 firmware and can be programmed as high as 200 or 300 amps phase and battery current. Not that it can sustain that. The programming should be very easy as it uses the standard Vesc interface

The other flipsky 75100 version with the aluminum pcb that’s available has shown much better at dissipating heat. From the experiences of others it seems worth opening what u have and gluing caps down and insulating the battery wires better as they come out to avoid shorting to the case.

Thanks, I'll look into it as I dive deeper. Taking baby steps. The unit just arrived; it's smaller than I thought. Same size as a pack of Marlboro 100s, but 1 1/2 times thicker, but crazy small. :shock:
VescFlipsky.jpg

Some of the programming tool looks intuitive, but other parts look sort of intimidating. I'll probably wire up the CA connector tonight, and hopefully get the basics programed tomorrow; not sure if I'll be able to test ride by then. :eek:

Also, it looks like it can do current roll back for both the FETs and motor, so I'll have to decide whether to use the CA or the controller for the motor temps. Also, try to figure out if the same temp sensor signal can be shared with the controller and CA or not.
 
Programming is cake with the Vesc “wizard” button. If just do that and also set the motor and battery current settings, and the battery low voltage cut-off voltage n done. Take like 3-5min.
Set them, then press the “write” button.


!! I think there’s a big danger of damaging the esc if u let it revert to standard settings or something. U can’t have phase filtering on!
https://flipsky.net/blogs/vesc-tool/flipsky-75-series-esc-firmware-5-3-to-set-up-voltage
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
Programming is cake with the Vesc “wizard” button. If just do that and also set the motor and battery current settings, and the battery low voltage cut-off voltage n done. Take like 3-5min.
Set them, then press the “write” button.


!! I think there’s a big danger of damaging the esc if u let it revert to standard settings or something. U can’t have phase filtering on!
https://flipsky.net/blogs/vesc-tool/flipsky-75-series-esc-firmware-5-3-to-set-up-voltage

Thanks for the tip, can the encouragement. Ya, wizard sounds easy. Otherwise, some of those screens have a lot of data points and a half dozen tabs each.

I opened up the end of the controller without the wires and it looks like the single PCB version.
Vesc Inside.jpg

I soldered on the XT90 battery connector, XT150 phase wire connectors, and the CA connector, so it's ready to hook up. I'm using the same external shunt that I added for the spare controller, so just added a JST for that to the CA harness (I used a JST to the shunt, so it's easy to swap controllers). I decided to do the same with the Battery (+) and (-) by making a jumper with a two pin JST branching off of it, going to the CA harnes, again, making swapping easier. I get the speed signal from the yellow hall sensor wire. The CA throttle output taps into the COM harness throttle signal wire, the only wire I'm using from that harness, but when I implement regen, I'll tap at couple more of the wires. So all connections for the CA harness are external to the controller like on the spare.

Vesc connecing.jpg

I rolled up the unused harnesses, wrapped them in plastic and some electrical tape, but since I ordered the bluetooth module, kept that harness loose. I think it's pretty much ready to plug in, but I'll check all of the wiring again in the morning. :x

Also, I think I'll end up adding a pre-charge button above my breaker/switch since this thing doesn't have an on/off switch.
 
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