Kepler Drives are HERE!!

LI-ghtcycle

LI-ghtcycle

10 MW
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
3,818
Location
Oregon City Oregon
WOOOOT!!!

I am sooooo happy my Kepler Drives came in the mail yesterday, very nicely packed in bubble wrap, and everything is there.

I'm going to Coyote Hobby today to get my out-runner today, I have everything else ready to go! :twisted:

Review coming soon!

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Yep, mine arrived at 11:40AM EDT :)
-Mike
 
Sweet! I was off on a bike trip when mine arrived yesterday at about 2PM PST, and I just got back from the hobby shop with my new motor, can't wait! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
 
What motor did you pick up for the drive and what power are you planning on running... I'm torn between a semi legal 30mph on a 350kv motor (C5065) or higher voltage on the turnigy 170kv xp sk.
-Mike
 
mwkeefer said:
What motor did you pick up for the drive and what power are you planning on running... I'm torn between a semi legal 30mph on a 350kv motor (C5065) or higher voltage on the turnigy 170kv xp sk.
-Mike
Click to expand...

Mike , do either those motors have a skirt bearings ?? ( preferred for the Kepler drive)
There is a lack of information as to which motors actually have skirt brgs and the only suitable motors i KNOW have skirt bearings are the Turnigy 63-54 A 250kv or the Hyperion Z range.
 
Well, lets just say if I don't use the throttle judiciously, I'll burn a hole in my tire! :shock: :shock: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

I'm using this bad boy:

EFLM4110A-450.jpg


http://www.modelflight.com.au/eflite/eflm4110a_110_outrunner.htm

I simply want to have something that will do hills as fast as most kits will do flats, so I am going to use it mainly on the hills, but if I am starting to feel it in my knees, I'll use a little to get me where I am going everywhere, but I have to be really careful with this since I am also running 8S, or 30V, and this isn't tested, so I could have trouble if I'm not careful.

I figure with the extra 50 or so pounds I will be carrying touring, plus the extra weight of my solar panels, SLA (just a little 2lb or less 5 AH) battery that will be the storage battery for the panels and act as the buffer for the 110 inverter that I will use to charge a cell phone, power the Apple Mini Mac that I hope to trade my PC for (I will use the main battery pack to power the high wattage stuff, but charging cell phone and other low power items that can be powered/charged by a car battery will be powered by the SLA) unless I can get enough wattage from the solar panels to run the LiPo charger via the SLA not likely with the little panels I have.
 
Hill - no idea honestly, just figure it's worth a shot :)

I've got 10 different motors and 4 escs to test with Keplers drive (+2 on order).

Li - that motor comes with 12 mm shaft adapter / prop driver keplers drive wants 8mm-10mm if I'm not mistaken?

-Mike
 
Hillhater said:
Li-ghtcycle, same question as i asked mike...
..... does that motor have a skirt bearing ??
Are you sure that is a good combo for hill work ? ...with 30v you are "geared" for 70 mph ! :shock:
Click to expand...

Wow, I had no idea!

Look out doc! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :lol: :lol:

No need to worry, the bearings in both the kit and the motor should suffice, and I don't really plan on ever using full throttle, just enough to make 20ish MPH up hill if I can, and maybe closer to 30 MPH on the flats when I am pedaling really hard (so it's not too excessive and gets me the wrong kind of attention)

I'm really not sure if it has a "skirt bearing" but I do know that John (maker of the drive) says it should be fine, I just wanted a motor that was available locally and should be available in most hobby shops around the country, that and the best quality that I could afford since I am making such long trips.
 
Guys, ( Mike & Li-ghtcycle) , i know these motors will work, but i am sure you can see the issue of using a motor with no skirt brg.
The load from the tire is only supported on one end of the motor casing ( cantilever loading) which the motor was never designed for and risks causing the casing to detach from the bell end ( = motor death !) .
I just dont think we can expect any motor to last long in this application without a skirt brg.
A skirt bearing will support the free end of the casing much better and hopefully, dramatically improve reliability.
Li- the bearings in the kit will not help support the motor casing ! ..and that is an expensive motor to experiment with !
If you want reliability i would suggest you look closely at this .

I know we are all learning here, and i dont expect we will get it right first time, but there are some obvious issues we can avoid.
It is not easy to know from the posted spec's exactly which motors have the skirt brgs, but i do know the Hyperion Z series ( as Kepler used for most of his development) does, as does the Turnigy 63-54 A , 250kv, . and the 63-64A 280kv.( also the 80 series turnigys)
 
I am not expecting these to last many, many miles... just quick test use. That said, in most applications I wouldn't expect that the load applied on these motors is going to be so much that they would deflect... time will tell and rule them out perhaps.

In the meantime, the hyperion motor would be a better choice (on order) but until that comes in I have time to test other uses.

Remember also John is intending legal powered ebikes with this, given that in europe I think that means 250w maximum and in the states even it's 750w output which I believe at 85% efficiency works out to 888w input power.

Under those power levels, I don't even see the skirt bearing as needed - I could be wrong :)

-Mike
 
Mike,
its not the motor (electrical) load that is the issue, its the compressive load between the motor and the tire.( tire pressure x contact area ?? )
I dont know how the motor casing is attached to the end bell but that joint is going to be under a lot of stress reversals and vibration that it was never designed for.
but you are right, time and testing is what is required ... and if i am wrong then so much the better in terms of a greater choice of motors for us to pick from !! :p
 
mwkeefer said:
Hill - no idea honestly, just figure it's worth a shot :)

I've got 10 different motors and 4 escs to test with Keplers drive (+2 on order).

Li - that motor comes with 12 mm shaft adapter / prop driver keplers drive wants 8mm-10mm if I'm not mistaken?

-Mike
Click to expand...


Yes, you are correct, 12 mm shaft adapter, however, I have had the adapter turned down to 10MM, so I can use it with a collar (collet? not sure the proper term) instead of the nominal nut on the end of the shaft that is supplied with the Kepler Drive. I plan on having another spare made, and if needed one of steel.
 
Hillhater said:
Guys, ( Mike & Li-ghtcycle) , i know these motors will work, but i am sure you can see the issue of using a motor with no skirt brg.
The load from the tire is only supported on one end of the motor casing ( cantilever loading) which the motor was never designed for and risks causing the casing to detach from the bell end ( = motor death !) .
I just dont think we can expect any motor to last long in this application without a skirt brg.
A skirt bearing will support the free end of the casing much better and hopefully, dramatically improve reliability.
Li- the bearings in the kit will not help support the motor casing ! ..and that is an expensive motor to experiment with !
If you want reliability i would suggest you look closely at this .

I know we are all learning here, and i dont expect we will get it right first time, but there are some obvious issues we can avoid.
It is not easy to know from the posted spec's exactly which motors have the skirt brgs, but i do know the Hyperion Z series ( as Kepler used for most of his development) does, as does the Turnigy 63-54 A , 250kv, . and the 63-64A 280kv.( also the 80 series turnigys)
Click to expand...

I'm really new to any of these terms for the R/C motors, but if I understand you correctly, your concern is on the non-bolted side of the motor, that would normally have the prop attached, where the bell of the motor meets the shaft? And this is where some motors have this "skirt" bearing, and some do not?

And the motor I have chosen I take it does not have this second bearing?
 
Li-ghtcycle,..
diffficult to explain in words..but i will try..
the motor is effectively 2 separate parts, the internal stator fixed to one end bell ( which is then attached to keplers drive frame)
.. the other end of the motor is mounted on the shaft and also has the outer casing attached with the magnets inside ( which, for your drive will contact the tire)
That outer casing is only attached at the one end to the rotating end bell.
The shaft itself is well supported at both ends by bearings , but the outer casing is only supported at one end.
file.php


Also , your motor is 295 kv, and 63mm dia, so at your desired 20mph uphill it will be operating way below its optimum efficiency..IE generating a lot of heat.
Unless you plan on spending a lot of time at high road speeds ( 50+ mph), then you will be wasting a lot of battery power and possibly risking motor / controller overheating .
 
No then - neither drive has skirt bearings.
I've just ordered some additional motors and a roll of grip tape ta boot :)
-Mike
 
skirt bearings? is that what you put on a frock motor?

Just kiddin'. Lightcycle, nice to hear you finally got yours!! watching yet another one of your threads anxiously... too bad i couldn't wait and ordered a cell man kit!
 
Nep - quit complaining :)
wondered how long that comment was going to take ?
-Mike
 
Nep - quit complaining :)
wondered how long that comment was going to take ?
-Mike

ps: guys if money were no limit and one were looking for power (hills, continuous power) and speed - what motors would you recommend? Reterminating wye from delta is fine, I just want to see if I've missed any good candidates. Tia!
 
Lol, not really complaining. I think what i got will do me just fine... if not, the girlfriend gets it, lol.
 
mwkeefer said:
..... guys if money were no limit and one were looking for power (hills, continuous power) and speed - what motors would you recommend? Reterminating wye from delta is fine, I just want to see if I've missed any good candidates. Tia!
Click to expand...

Do you mean for the Kepler drive ??
Obviously Kepler is really the only one with any real experience on this so he would be best to answer..
but its a very good question... what else is out there..??
.. outrunner
..50 to 65 mm dia ? ( i dont think the 80 series will fit ?)
skirt bearings
KV below 250 ?
????
 
All I can tell you is according to John (Kepler on this board) I should have a speed around 35 - 40 MPH on the flat with this set-up, and you NEVER do a motor only start, it's always pedal first. So if this is true, I am thinking with my bike fully loaded for touring on long trips weighing at about 80-90 total pounds, that I should still have good speed up even steep grades like 10%. I only weigh 165 these days from all my training, used to be closer to 190 about 2-3 mons ago.
 
The Mighty Volt said:
Hi, I am new to the Kepler drive, although I am familiar with the concept of a friction drive system.

How much are these kits selling for?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

This first batch was on the expensive side since it was only a 20 unit run, but still very reasonable at about $325 shipped from Australia to the USA.

If you build the nominal set-up meant to go 20 MPH with a 6S Lipo pack (just a single 10AH battery at 22.2 ) you are only looking at around $700 total including shipping for everything you need including charger, battery, motor, ESC, Servo tester and throttle. You could go even cheaper if you bought the ESC and motor on Ebay, but I'd just as soon buy new from Hobby King.

I'm going a much more expensive route since I want to be able to service my kit at any local hobby shop I may find in cities in the US as I tour through them, but I could have also gone with the HK components and carried spares, but I'm really wanting to support my local hobby shop, and show others that it can be done with off the shelf items from you local hobby shop that you can get right now or order in a day or two instead of having to wait for a week's shipping from China if you have something fail.
 
Why use an SLA for accessories? I think your effeciency would improve if you had a slightly larger main lithium pack or replace the sla with an auxillary lithium pack.
 
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