18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

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Ypedal   100 GW

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by Ypedal » Apr 11 2011 11:23am

i'll hacksaw the damn thing in half tonight.. but i'm sure it's not in there.
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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by grindz145 » Apr 11 2011 11:29am

Ypedal wrote:i'll hacksaw the damn thing in half tonight.. but i'm sure it's not in there.
:shock:

Be careful ! or not... :twisted:

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by karma » Apr 11 2011 11:32am

Ypedal wrote:i'll hacksaw the damn thing in half tonight.. but i'm sure it's not in there.
we will require a video in true liveforphysics fashion sparks and all :mrgreen: :wink:

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 11 2011 3:29pm

Ypedal wrote:i'll hacksaw the damn thing in half tonight.. but i'm sure it's not in there.

I wana see bare hands, and no face shield or eye protection.

Get to it. :)
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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by Ypedal » Apr 11 2011 4:03pm

Done ! :D

video being edited now. 8)
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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by Ypedal » Apr 11 2011 6:58pm

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 11 2011 7:07pm

You rock Ypedal!

That was exactly what I expected to see.
Great video, and I approve of your non-pussness with cutting open a LiCo based cell with a hacksaw and bare hands.

Two Thumbs Up! :)


On the bright side, you didn't lose anything, because the cell started life as a worthless failed chunk of feces in some el-cheapo OEM pack, then got sold for scrap, re-branded, re-shrink wrapped and sold as an ultra-feces, and now you managed to turn an otherwise worthless cell into something educational! Great work!
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by karma » Apr 11 2011 7:11pm

good vid. protection is when the end blows off takes your eye out lol. :twisted:

or its could be the plastic housing the cell is the protection :roll:

look at it under a microscope it could be the new nano protection :lol:
Last edited by karma on Apr 11 2011 7:16pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by oscaryu1 » Apr 11 2011 7:16pm

Blue 18650's don't have the endcaps the red ones do, but they do have a top cap, spot welded with some rather thin (1/8" wide) tabs, which is then spot welded to the top of the battery. o_o :?:

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by Ypedal » Apr 11 2011 7:20pm

glad you aprove !! 8) .. more shenanigans with " real LiPo !! " later on once the weather improves a bit and i have a working hose in the back yard ( damn thing froze with water in it and cracked pissing water all over the basement last fall.. need to fix that )

Oh, and i fully charged the cell before cutting it open, very disapointed at the lack of smoke. :(

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by amberwolf » Apr 12 2011 1:05am

I like it's Shelf-lief of 10 years. Kinda like the aquatic decorations we get at the store that are Dame in China. :lol:

Given it's lack of power delivery in the tests, I'm not surprised that there was zilch in the smoke and fire department during the autopsy. ;)

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WHAT HAVE I DONE?!

Post by oscaryu1 » May 12 2011 8:29pm

O_O

Image

Image

I need a couple hundred more cells too lol.

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Re: WHAT HAVE I DONE?!

Post by zombiess » May 12 2011 8:40pm

oscaryu1 wrote:O_O

Image

Image

I need a couple hundred more cells too lol.

What you did was build a giant sketchy battery LOL! Hopefully it works out for you, looks like a lot of work. Keep us up to date when you start using it.

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by liveforphysics » May 12 2011 9:32pm

5P14S with those cells makes around a 7.5-8.5Ah 51.8v pack with a bad case of the sags.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

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Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by justadad1957 » May 12 2011 10:26pm

my used 18650s deliver just under 5 ah in a 6p16s
based on recharge ah
they are used cells and i have over 500 cycles (maybe 60% dod) on them
they are what they are
at lower c rates they might test better
i know i bought used cells but they still give me a good 10 miles plus range
with no pedel
because of the popo i really need to keep it under 20mph
dont discount 18650's
they are working great for me
just because they are delivering less than .9ah per cell inst all so bad
they get me to work daily

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by oscaryu1 » May 12 2011 11:07pm

liveforphysics wrote:5P14S with those cells makes around a 7.5-8.5Ah 51.8v pack with a bad case of the sags.
I'm actually building up to ~96v or so (forgot the exact number), but 5P27S, and FIVE of those XD

Yes, a giant sketchy timebomb. It'll be interesting...

Using it to power a big forklift motor on a go kart. My biggest worry is amperage draw... anyone here good at modifying MOSFET controllers/reverse engineering?

Assuming I can do 5C burst (LOL, doubtful) for just a few seconds, and hoping that they're 2aH, I can expect 50a from each pack. 50a x 5 = 250a total... and with an A123 buffer pack, it might barely squeeze by my requirements.

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by liveforphysics » May 12 2011 11:31pm

At 2C, you will be sagging more than a volt per cell.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by SamTexas » May 12 2011 11:35pm

justadad1957 wrote:my used 18650s deliver just under 5 ah in a 6p16s
based on recharge ah
they are used cells and i have over 500 cycles (maybe 60% dod) on them
they are what they are
at lower c rates they might test better
i know i bought used cells but they still give me a good 10 miles plus range
with no pedel
because of the popo i really need to keep it under 20mph
dont discount 18650's
they are working great for me
just because they are delivering less than .9ah per cell inst all so bad
they get me to work daily
I would like to learn more about your 18650 pack. Sounds like you have extensive experience with it. Please share if you don't mind. Your real life experience is valuable. I ask because I have built a pack myself but have not used it much.

- How long ago?
- Charging, balancing?
- Monitoring, if any, while discharging

BTW, just ignore those nay-sayer idiots. They are just used car salemen trash.

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by SamTexas » May 13 2011 2:21am

oscaryu1 wrote: Assuming I can do 5C burst (LOL, doubtful) for just a few seconds, ...
I don't know what cell you're using, but I have no problem doing 5c burst on Lithium Cobalt for 30 seconds (for testing purpose). And my cells are not even new. They are 2.5Ah cells retrieved from old/discarded Dell 56Wh packs.

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by neptronix » May 13 2011 2:56am

SamTexas wrote: BTW, just ignore those nay-sayer idiots. They are just used car salemen trash.
Actually the guy who sells you the ultrafire is the used car salesman who puts a detail job and some mods on a 1995 Jetta that's only running on 3 cylinders and he tells you it's the diesel model, that's why it sounds funny :mrgreen:

And the used laptop cells are the 12 year old hand me down car that your mom used to get groceries in.

And the guy who is stuck with either car.. well um.. yeah, poor sap :lol:
Efficiency is everything :bolt:


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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by liveforphysics » May 13 2011 3:36am

As ultrafire has no factory, and shrink-wraps the QC rejected (trash) cells from other factories, who is the one pushing trash?
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by zEEz » May 13 2011 7:31am

I agree, those Ultrafire are real trash, rewrapped ....
I bought few of those one year ago, I tested them, opened a few of them: the metal contact of the + pole
is soldered (badly) on the real contact of the 18650 cell that was RUSTY !!!!!
Beside this you get HALF the mAh they advertise just if you take really small current (1/4C) and you deep discharge
the cell to less than 2.80 volt .... NOT GOOD ....
Seller gave me some money back ... I kept the cells for some radios ...
But the 18650 from a Sony Laptop are another thing: I use them in a brushless plane where they give 5C
without any problem ... almost like LiPO ....


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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by SamTexas » May 13 2011 7:46am

zEEz wrote:But the 18650 from a Sony Laptop are another thing: I use them in a brushless plane where they give 5C
without any problem ... almost like LiPO ....
As I said, ignore those idiots who talk about things they know nothing about. I too have a few used Sony Laptop cells, they are still excellent. But I don't have enough of them to make a pack. My Dell pack is performing better than expected with the 350W geared hub.
Sam

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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by Ypedal » May 13 2011 7:49am

the " idiots " as you call them, know exactly what they are talking about.. the OP of this thread asked about the ultrafire crap cells being sold on ebay, ....

the sony " konion " cells however, we all know , are quite good..
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Re: 18650 Li-ion at $145 per KiloWatt Hour!

Post by zEEz » May 13 2011 7:59am

From my experience with 18650 from ebay, used Laptop Packs and 'Compatible' Laptop Packs ....
if you are insane enough to want a cheap pack for your ebike using 18650 LiCO cells, your only option
is to consider buying a few cheap *ORIGINAL* DELL Laptop packs ... :shock:
Don't be fool (like me :oops: ) to try NoName packs ... their quality is really crap ....
On ebay, usually, what you pay is what you get ..... :mrgreen:
from 1A-1S to 300A-16S ESC ^_^ 3g to 10Kg brushless motors ... 3W to 15kW

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