Cooking a heinzmann motor.

I have overheated my old 33 amp 36v Heinzmann motor by over amping for too long. It is now shorting the controller.I have discovered that the max temp for the motor is 125 degrees C and that this is controlled in the genuine Heinzmann controller by the thermistor in the motor controlling the max amps from the controller. As the resistance in the thermistor rises with motor heat the current is reduced from the controller stopping the motor from over heating.
I have been using a 4qd controller that is way over the top. My upper limit has only been controlled by the Battery Management System at 40 amps. I have ordered another heinzmann motor. This one will be 25amps max. I can solder a resistor into the 4qd controller to control its max amps, in effect making it a lower wattage controller. i can not however use the Thermistor in parallel as its value is too low. I just want to know what others have got away with?
I used to wire the potentiometer throttle wire through the thermistor but by the time the thermistor gets a high enough resistance to block the signal it is way too hot.
I think I am going to have to get the genuine controller in time but how far past the 9 amp nominal can I go and for how long? I am a heavy man and have some long hills to climb.
If anyone has a genuine Heinzmann controller or even the cable would be usefull . I don't want to cut the new plug off my motor.
Also does anyone still convert Heinzmann controllers for use with a standard Ping battery without the half voltage curcuit in England or Uk.
Any help appreciated.

One option for the thermistor to control current flow in the 4QD is to replace the 4QD's control resistor with a voltage-controlled potentiometer (Maxim makes a few kinds, for instance, some of which can easily be combined to make exactly the circuit you'd need to do this), or a VCP in series with a larger resistor if you need a higher resistance than the VCPs come in.

Then feed the thermistor's resistance as a voltage divider into into the VCP's analog-voltage input pin. Scale teh voltage divider so it gives you the right range of resistance output to cause the amount of current limit rollback you want. If you need to offset the voltage or scale it, you can use an op-amp between the thermistor-votlage-divider and the VCP input.

it will probably take some experimentation to get this to do what you want, but ought to work.

One option for a VCP:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/3284

I have a Heinzmann motor. It seemed ok at 48 volts (4 SLA batteries in series). I tried connecting 5 SLA batteries in series. And when I moved the throttle, the torque arm busted free (i was just using some wire coat hanger through it's hole and wrapped around the frame a few times). the rotor spun a few times and disconnected the motor power wire anderson plugs (i think before i shreaded them around the rotor shaft. i was using a controller rated for 36 volts. I am not sure what I did.. perhaps i shorted the motor? or I shorted the controler?? and or shorted the throttle?? I was still quite novice (and still am, but not as much now). I am interested in getting this Heinzmann operational again. It came off a Lee Iacoca eBike (folding bike with 20 inch wheels). My other option is to just sell it, and stick with brushless motors, and let someone else have fun with this motor.

Heinzman motors are brushed so probably not damaged by shredding the wires but you will have to go in and fix/solder new ones. 2 wires for power and 2 for the thermister to measure temps. The brushed controlers can be cheap comodity items from Scooter places like TNC Scooter or Ecrazyman online. Even geared motors like Heinzman are fairly simple to repair systems electically. They just make a lot of heat and are relatively inefficient, but are powerful. You got pictures?
otherDoc

Its quite difficut to get a Heinzmann motor apart and back together to replace those wires. The magnets are very powerfull so pulling it apart is difficult and they slam together on reassembly. Heres how to do it.
undo the nut on the opposte to motor side spindle and the 6 screws holding the motor in
Remove motor from hub
undo the other spindle nut and the small screw in the alloy shield covering the wires remove the alloy sheild
with a srew driver or surclip pliers flick the c ring holding the cover plate on out of its groove and remove the cover plate.
Mark how the two halfs of the motor fit together ( cables line up with rear gear)
undo the four screws holding the two halfs of the motor together
prize apart the two halfs using washers as spacers working a little on each side untill you can split the motor
The shim and wave washer from under the bearing willl jump out and stick to the magnets
undo the four screws inside the magnet plate and lift off the magnet plate.
undo the nuts holding the cables to the plate noting how they are fitted and the angles of wires
The thermistor wires are joined in here but may have to be cut and and rejoined with solder.
Relace your wires
To rebuild the motor.
hold the brushes back with wires and remove them when the two halfs are together
use some grease to hold the shim and washer in place or the magnets will make them jump out
use long screws with there heads cut off screwed into the motor to guide the 2 halfs of the motor together and hold the bottom half in a vice
MAKE SURE YOUR FINGERS ARE OUT OF THE WAY the magnets really could chop them off.
Hold on tight and try to get the 2 halfs together.
replace screws etc

docnjoj said:

Heinzman motors are brushed so probably not damaged by shredding the wires but you will have to go in and fix/solder new ones. 2 wires for power and 2 for the thermister to measure temps. The brushed controlers can be cheap comodity items from Scooter places like TNC Scooter or Ecrazyman online. Even geared motors like Heinzman are fairly simple to repair systems electically. They just make a lot of heat and are relatively inefficient, but are powerful. You got pictures?
otherDoc

Click to expand...

I wonder if the pulley he is using in this video (see below) can be used to pull heinzman moter apart?
[youtube]lkGgAWHSayU[/youtube]
I was thinking the same thing. I would like to see pictures of the disassembly and reassembly. That would be a great resource here. I contacted heinzman to get more details about the inards of the motor.. and they offered me nothing.. and even no instruction on how to service the motors. They only offered to have me send the motor to them, and pay them a hefty hourly fee to have it serviced. No tech or service manaul avalable for sale or free on the motors. This is one of the reasons I think companies like that will not have broad appeal and success.. The Model T was highly sucessfull because it was to start, reasonalbly priced and easy to fix.. and info on the specifications and parts were fairly easy to be gotten.. And because so many people had them there were many hackers discovering better ways to modify them or repair them.. spare parts were easy to be found, etc. I think Golden Motor is in that genre, except they have not gotten enough penetration in the USA.. sadly because of an issue with thier distributer in the USA. And ofcourse, forums like this, and on youtube have really been great in connecting people and for sharing ideas and info.

Have any of you found any videos of somone taking a heinzman apart or putting it together. I really would like to see what is inside the hub. Iit is my impression that the thermoresister is not necessary for the function of the motor.. I don't think I had mine connected, and it seemed to work fine. BTW, the people at Heinzman would not tell me what the two small wires coming out of the motor were.. I think i even gave them the serial number for the motor.

here ya go bud.

there are more pictures of the internal electrical bits on google, but this is all i had on my file.

so it appears that the side showing is the side opposite of the torque arm?? I too the picture and drew up what I think I could identify. You have more pics the other sides of those pieces? Are there parts missing from the hub in this pic? like the shell of the hub? or??.

Here is a link to an old Heinzmann strip. This man could not get motor brushes and had a batch made. I have his email address and can contact him if you want some. nb He miss spells Heinzmann as Weinmann.
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/11053-weinmann-motor-brushes

csm said:

... Are there parts missing from the hub in this pic? like the shell of the hub?

Click to expand...

Yes your diagram is absolutely correct. The larger half is the electric motor turning the small gear which is meshed to the larger gear when the two halves are together.

Here is another picture of the hub before i seperated the other two parts. It's kinda complicated in the pictures, but it's all i got.

passpato said:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/11053-weinmann-motor-brushes

Click to expand...

Thanks I saw a bunch of pictures of the inside of the Heinzmann motor at the link.. I saved them all for reference, along with the descriptions.

Hi, I have a Heinzmann hub motor that I have used and loved for years. It is just like the one pictured above. Now the CSK20 free hub (one way Bearing Sprag Freewheel Backstop Clutch) has broken. In order to remove the part, I had to destroy the gear that is pressed onto the CSK20. I now need to source a replacement gear that I can press onto the CSK20. Can anyone help with a part number?

Here is a photo of my hack job. As you can see the gear is toast. I succeeded in getting it off though, and the CSK20 too.

dmacintosh said:

Here is a photo of my hack job. As you can see the gear is toast. I succeeded in getting it off though, and the CSK20 too.

Click to expand...

I have the same problem. The motor works fine, the gear just spins. Is there a way to remove it? I noticed the phillips screws.