Anderson Power Poles Melted together.

ihategeeks

100 W
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
111
48v15ah Ping
Ebikes 25amp controller set up matched to a 9c

I had been experiencing some problems with short out the past couple weeks, prime suspect was at the discharge wires, the metal contacts looked corroded. I figured I'd just deal with it because anderson crimpers are pricey.
Well, today I went to pull the battery out to charge and I couldn't pull the discharge wires apart from the controller, the plastic housings had melted together :shock: I was eventually able to pry it off, but that pretty much settled the issue of when I deal with this problem. I guess the corroded contacts just got that hot, no other idea how that could happen.

So word of caution, if you are getting short outs, replace the connections , they can melt :D
 
andersons are noted for making poor contact. yours melted because there was a very small area making contact and the large current through the small contact is how it overheated. the corrosion is most likely pitting from the spark when you connect the controller to the battery.
 
I've had the same issues with andersons. They corrode over time and the housing eventually melts. I've also accidentally reversed polarity on my controller due to the genderless housings. I use bullet connectors now for battery connections and solder the hall and phase wires and have found that to be the most reliable.
 
you can solder the battery leads too and then just use a switch on the controller circuit current to keep it from draining the battery. some controllers have a drain down resistor across the input caps so you would have to remove that if your controller is still draining current through the main power wires to the mosfets. or you can solder just one wire to the battery and put a big circuit breaker in the hot wire and use a precharge resistor to charge up the caps before turning the breaker switch on.
 
This subject seems to come up every 2 or 3 months.

I had the exact same issues with APPs. In addition, mine were in an area that saw a lot of movement which contributed to arcing. My resolution was to eliminate the APPs altogether (and I have for all high-current systems, though for really low-current they’re fine + they have a 2nd life). Instead I used barrel connectors:

See Main power connectors - help please for more information. Lots of threads on the topic; everyone has an opinion.

I use these:

HKBarrelConnectors.jpg


All my connector and sag problems went a w a y ! 8)
Safe travels, KF
 
I have some andersons that are 5 years old, thousands of miles of riding, and they are just fine. But at 20 amps or more, any problem with them makes them melt right away.

Often people crimp them in such a way that the contact gets jammed crooked in the housing instead of floating nice like it's designed to. Then the tiny contact area heats up.

I still like andersons for some things, and 4mm bullets for others.
 
It's not a product problem, It's that peeps don't know how to assemble them correctly. I have run andersons 45A and 75A connectors since 2007 with zero problems. 100s of connectors used for both high power RCs, electric bikes, skateboard, scooters and dirt bikes. Van us low amp connectors for high amp applications. You need the correct crimper and correct wire gauge. Just look around this forum and you will see undersized wire and shoddy connections. Installed correctly and looked after they work as specified.
 
triggeraa said:
It's not a product problem, It's that peeps don't know how to assemble them correctly. I have run andersons 45A and 75A connectors since 2007 with zero problems. 100s of connectors used for both high power RCs, electric bikes, skateboard, scooters and dirt bikes. Van us low amp connectors for high amp applications. You need the correct crimper and correct wire gauge. Just look around this forum and you will see undersized wire and shoddy connections. Installed correctly and looked after they work as specified.

I ordered a TRIcrimp anderson crimper and 30amp contacts for 12,14 gauge wire.
The ping end of the connection never looked to be very good, even had a strand of loose wire outside of the housing.
 
I only use the 30A Andersons for charging and never for anything over 10-12 amps they are way to thin. I have used the 45A Andersons on two different bikes over the last 4-5 years that's 14+ K miles. The few failures, melted housings and pitted connectors were when I did not crimp them well or did the arc and spark thing one to many times, so bought the Tri-crimp tool and installed a good cut off switch and never another problem. Running the BMC V2S at 66V and 40A for near 10K with only a couple of self caused failures, mentioned above, with the 45A. Over the years I have learned not to use stuff near it's rated capacity unless I want it to fail. Overbuild to make it last and be trouble free. I have also used some good quality 3.5 and 4mm bullets for connecting wires seldom disconnected without problems. So in the end 45A Andersons 12Ga phase and battery wire and 3.5-4mm bullets are good for all but the highest power needs. The same connectors albeit a bit larger are made for higher power connections when needed. Nothing wrong with Deans either.

 
Most of my problems were resulting from too thick a wire into a 45 amps contact and housing. I get good results from 12 g silicon RC wire, but anything bigger gets problematic. Y connections with two wires to one contact really cause problems unless using very small wire. A few times a contact backing out of the housing has caused problems, but not usually melting it, just breaking contact.

They have to float in the housing, AND not be getting tweaked sideways by something pulling on them as you strap the wire to the bike. So you do have to pay attention to the wires, and keep them un twisted. Only a free floating Anderson makes good contact.

I run moderate power, so 12g still works fine for me. My harnesses for RC lipo do all the parallel and series connections with bullets, or y connections using crimp sleeves. But the bike itself still uses lots of andersons on battery to controller connections, and motor to controller phase wires. I like em on the phase wires so you can easily remove the housing and get the wire through torque arms.

No doubt about it, andersons work well, but they are fussy things.
 
Nothing but problems using Anderson pps here. Moved to 4mm hxt and now all motor and battery are going to 150 hxt which are a pleasure to work with and cheap.
 
For my battery-to-controller connection, and also battery-to-charger connection, I have been using the XT-90 connector, and I'm very happy with them. Soldering to the smaller XT-60 connector takes some finesse and experience (practice first on scrap wire before committing to an important component).

Soldering to the larger XT-90 is easy. You can rotate the pins so the solder sockets face the easiest to reach position. First, mate a male/female pair. This will hold the pins straight as the housing heats up and cools down. Before I started doing this, about one in ten soldered connections would result in a pin "drooping" because I held the iron onto the pin a long time, and the hot plastic softened a bit.

I use a large 100W soldering iron (with a fat tip, so it stays hot when using. A small tip cools off too fast) that I bought cheaply in the stained-glass window section of a hobby supply store. Mate a pair, then apply a small bit of solder to the sockets, then let them cool for a minute. Slide-on a section of heat-shrink over the wire, and move it back far enough that it will not start shrinking until you want it to.

"Tin" the tips of the wire with a small bit of solder. For 12-Ga, I strip a little extra insulation off, and fold the tip to make it fatter, just before tinning. Set the wire tip in the socket of the connectors pin, hold it up to the soldering iron tip, and hold it there for just a few moments. When the solder becomes shiney again, the two have made a solid connection. Pull it away from the soldering iron tip and blow on it, so it solidifies while you hold the wire at the proper angle.

Slide-on the 6mm heat-shrink and apply heat to shrink it up.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__24707__Nylon_XT90_Connectors_Male_Female_5_pairs_.html
 
People dont read the spec sheet of anderson connectors and claim they are poor.

i'm using them for all my badass EV built and overpowering them and never had any problem.

i can use 40A continuous in the PP30 WITHOUT PROBLEM.

they require to be properly crimped and positionned and not have any bad angle when inserting in the housing. If the blade have been bended the contact will not have the right pressure.

The current rating also depend on the wire size and quality that you use!

i saw many turnigy 12 gauges wires becoming hot during use but the PP30 was at normal temp.

People tend to forget that the wire size used on the contact is also contributing to evacuate the heat from the contact. That's why the current rating of the contacts in the spec sheet is derated according to the wire size being used with.

bigger wire will allow higher contact current rating.

Powerpole DONT have any Male or Female problem! they all work together! :wink: that's really usefull in the various connection we sometime need to do when testing!

As well bullet connector work well too but they are MAle and Female... so they have limited use

Doc
 
All I can say is "use big connectors", for the bigger they are, the less troubles you'll have with them.
Andersons 75 A and up, bullets 5.5mm, 8ga wiring, silver soldered = Reliable all weather power for 10K Miles
 
Indeed Anderson connectors are very reliable when used wisely!...

Here is the Anderson powerpole spec chart:
http://www.andersonpower.com/products/singlepole-connectors.html

How to assemble:View attachment ASM-PP_1S1072(3).pdf
If you want to avoid contacts corrosion... I used either those 2 products which are great:
DOW CORNING® 4 ELECTRICAL INSULATING COMPOUND https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/images/items/zoom/10RH49_AS01.JPG
and
NCP-2 Battery Corrosion Preventative (CB104) http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/large/noc/cb104.jpg
 
MadRhino said:
All I can say is "use big connectors", for the bigger they are, the less troubles you'll have with them.
Andersons 75 A and up, bullets 5.5mm, 8ga wiring, silver soldered = Reliable all weather power for 10K Miles

MadRhino has it correct. I'm another one in the "andersons are junk" club. There are those that have moved past them, and those that will have problems with them.

People can say, "well if you do this, and if you do that, then stand on your head, spin 3 times, then they will work". But the reality is that even if you do that, they can and do fail, whereas other connectors are easier/better in every way.
 
+1 on bigger is better
Had 2 sets of 45a PPs melt on two different bikes, ended up replacing with 8mm bullets.
Overkill, I know, but after a long climb the motor temp was 210Fo and the connectors 6" away were at 115Fo (ambient 90)
 
Kingfish said:
This subject seems to come up every 2 or 3 months.

I had the exact same issues with APPs. In addition, mine were in an area that saw a lot of movement which contributed to arcing. My resolution was to eliminate the APPs altogether (and I have for all high-current systems, though for really low-current they’re fine + they have a 2nd life). Instead I used barrel connectors:

See Main power connectors - help please for more information. Lots of threads on the topic; everyone has an opinion.

I use these:

HKBarrelConnectors.jpg


All my connector and sag problems went a w a y ! 8)
Safe travels, KF

Hi KF!

Where did you source the Copper crimp rings and crimper?


I've had loose APP's, but the real secret is not to oversize the wire for the housing. Sometimes I only have 8 gauge wire, so i strip back further and
put heat shrink on the bare wire. The heat shrink is thinner than the silicone. :wink:
I also invested into a APP Crimper. Makes the difference and keeps the metal connector straight, which is good. :)

Tommy L sends....
mosh.gif
 
Tommy, this is the thread for you: Mechanical Crimping Large Gauge Wiring Harnesses 8)

I think that between switching to bullets (or barrels as I've been known to call them) and swaging unions instead of soldering... and well, upgrading the wiring a couple of sizes has made a huge different in performance. The simplicity of the connectors -> one contact & one housing makes for a dead simple interface that is unaffected by external mechanical forces e.g. vibration, flexing, dodgy point of contact. APP proponents probably are doing something right and not placing their fixations in harms way as do I. However we need only to turn to the RC Battery Industry as a guide and follow their lead (pun intended) and note the style of connectors. Took me a long time to accept that bit of info with the strong overt opinion here on ES with some calling the HXT crap. There will always be two camps; I'm fine with it - both types have their place in the sun.

For unions, bar none - swaging is simpler, stronger, faster, better. If you can afford it, upsize the crimpers to handle larger wire gauge; mine were too small by two sizes as you can see by the "butterfly" effect - though I made it work well enough. The least expensive source of copper for swaging came from making my own out of specialty-ordered copper tubing from OnlineMetals.Com. Let me say it straight out that I probably would have started a house fire trying to solder 6-AWG unions :lol: - and moving to swaging was one of the smartest tips I've received here from this board. :wink:

Now if only we had bullet connectors that are swaged...

Are you assuaged? KF
 
Doctorbass said:
People dont read the spec sheet of anderson connectors and claim they are poor.

i'm using them for all my badass EV built and overpowering them and never had any problem.

i can use 40A continuous in the PP30 WITHOUT PROBLEM.

they require to be properly crimped and positionned and not have any bad angle when inserting in the housing. If the blade have been bended the contact will not have the right pressure.

The current rating also depend on the wire size and quality that you use!

i saw many turnigy 12 gauges wires becoming hot during use but the PP30 was at normal temp.

People tend to forget that the wire size used on the contact is also contributing to evacuate the heat from the contact. That's why the current rating of the contacts in the spec sheet is derated according to the wire size being used with.

bigger wire will allow higher contact current rating.

Powerpole DONT have any Male or Female problem! they all work together! :wink: that's really usefull in the various connection we sometime need to do when testing!

As well bullet connector work well too but they are MAle and Female... so they have limited use

Doc

Count me in on that too. In fact, word everything in Doc's post.

12ga and thinner wire the small APP's have served me well for 1000's of miles and years of daily multiple connections. If it's not for you it's not for you but some of us have been quite happy with the performance and flexibility they provide.
 
+1 for APP's. Been using them since the 1960's when John Sermos would bring them to the flying field for us electric glider fliers. Crimp them correctly and they rarely fail.
otherDoc
 
And there will always be opinions. But a GOOD crimp will always be better than a Cold Solder joint. ;)
Check out my lawn Tractor conversion I just finished. I crimped 175 amp Andersons and 2 gauge lugs. I enjoy crimping :)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=50784

Thank you KF!

Tommy L sends.....
 
PP45 are only rated at 45A if you use 10G conduit to allow for proper heat sinking of the contact. With lower gauges and higher amperages is where people tend to have problems. I like using them for low current situations. But for things handling serious current I prefer 4mm bullet up to 50-60A 5.5 up to 100A and Xt150 for 150A.
 
Back
Top