Building our own open source forum bike

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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burner77   100 W

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Building our own open source forum bike

Post by burner77 » Apr 06 2014 3:01pm

Hi there,
I'm reading for days in this forum and learnt so much about electric bikes and made the conclusion, to use the forum power to build up our own endless-sphere bike. I have seen other forum project working very good…
Since the industry is offering some nice bikes, but with prices way to high for many people, we can do better and cheaper. The community here is far more experienced people, using alot of research how to do and it would be great to do a project togheter. We could order more parts together and get them cheaper. And its good t know, that is a good one, because many users here have tested them.
Many people tell me it would me nice to have a electric bike, which can be used instead of a car using petrol, especially for short distances. If more people have electric bikes with stronger engines, it can be cheaper for everyone. And more charging points. And it could be less illegal to run 4kw and having fun.

To begin wih the frame: I'm thinking that a normal bycycle frame is not the best solution to fit the batteries and there are nice solutions around and if you look closer, the better way is to fit them in the frame. Made of steel and with a proper rear end with integrated torque arms and … There are nice solutions around, but it every post is written some improvement. I have seen so pretty cool frame projects using CAD-programs and finally everybody says WOW and one frame was made for many hours of work. Let's build one togheter! We can do hundrets of them, paying less…
Some interesting projects are
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=55782
http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=18196.0
http://www.greyp-bikes.com/
http://motopeds.com/campaign/
http://www.electricbike.com/greyborg/
http://www.phasorcycles.com/products.html
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=44852 Thanks zener
http://www.qulbix.com/index.php?option= ... Itemid=475
And I'm sure you know more. So let's start. Which frame system you like most and you would like to have for you next projects. In the next postings we talk about the rest of the bike ;-)
It will be great fun… Thanks
Last edited by burner77 on Apr 07 2014 4:17am, edited 1 time in total.

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zener   1 kW

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by zener » Apr 06 2014 3:26pm

burner77 wrote:Hi there, Hi Burner
I'm reading for days in this forum and learnt so much about electric bikes and made the conclusion, to use the forum power to build up our own endless-sphere bike. I have seen other forum project working very good…
Since the industry is offering some nice bikes, but with prices way to high for many people, we can do better and cheaper.
Competition is growing same as the market.
The community here is far more experienced people, using alot of research how to do and it would be great to do a project togheter. We could order more parts together and get them cheaper. And its good t know, that is a good one, because many users here have tested them.
Many people tell me it would me nice to have a electric bike, which can be used instead of a car using petrol, especially for short distances. If more people have electric bikes with stronger engines, it can be cheaper for everyone. And more charging points. And it could be less illegal to run 4kw and having fun. I would be pleased to see law change when %% of people drive 'therealdeal' for PRO ebike but history showed opposite.

To begin wih the frame: I'm thinking that a normal bycycle frame is not the best solution to fit the batteries and there are nice solutions around and if you look closer, the better way is to fit them in the frame.
DH frames are perfectly for powerfull hubmotors with the right torquearms. Battery you can take in a backpack *have the additional benefit that you can lock the bike somewhere without worry that the battery gets stolen.
Made of steel Steel rusts, not all live in a sunny country and with a proper rear end with integrated torque arms and … There are nice solutions around, but it every post is written some improvement. I have seen so pretty cool frame projects using CAD-programs and finally everybody says WOW and one frame was made for many hours of work. Let's build one togheter! We can do hundrets of them, paying less…
Some interesting projects are
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=55782
http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=18196.0
http://www.greyp-bikes.com/
http://motopeds.com/campaign/
http://www.electricbike.com/greyborg/

Here is a nother one, with very competitive price.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=44852

And I'm sure you know more. So let's start. Which frame system you like most and you would like to have for you next projects. In the next postings we talk about the rest of the bike ;-)
It will be great fun… Thanks

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burner77   100 W

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by burner77 » Apr 06 2014 4:18pm

The price max should be around $3,000 and the community decides if Middrive or Direct Drive (such as Clyte 4080, Crown, Cromotor…) with at least 2,5 kW running with 72V and some controller options (maybe sine wave too). Battery should be 8–10Ah at least. It should be affordable, durable and easy for repairing. Rear tire max 24", different spring and fork options…
We could send bigger packages to every continent, to safe shipping costs and order everthing direct from the producer of parts. Frame can be welded in Taiwan.

Look at this project of community building here:
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/f/carver-i ... ss-in.238/

@we can write the history by ourself. If more people are having a Power-Ebike (and politicans and lawyers and …) it has to be changed. And not all the steels are rusting, and can be treathed with some good coating. I know alot of old steel bikes, which are in good conditions.

LETS MAKE HISTORY…

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by dogman dan » Apr 06 2014 4:35pm

That would be history, if ES folks agreed that one kind of bike was ideal. I can't even decide myself, which is why I have about 6 ebikes, each completely different.

Which type are you interested in?, typically a commuter won't go off road worth beans.

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etard   1 MW

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by etard » Apr 06 2014 4:42pm

I would love to see this happen ,but sadly it will never get past the frame choice or even the motor. I would be more on board with a 4 day long build off where about 10-15 guys come together over a long weekend and build some bikes together, followed by a day of racing said bikes!
Four wheels moves the body, Two wheels moves the soul
Thanks to Justin @ http://www.ebike.ca He brings the soul to ES

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burner77   100 W

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by burner77 » Apr 06 2014 4:45pm

As I have seen most of the commuter bikes are full suspensions with enough travel for offroading, so it depences more on the tire…
And of course it will be difficult to agree with everyone and I have different bikes too. The links with frames are going in the direction I would prefer. But I'm here to ask YOU what will be a good choice for everybody…
Make suggsestions…

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burner77   100 W

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by burner77 » Apr 06 2014 4:47pm

etard wrote:I would love to see this happen ,but sadly it will never get past the frame choice or even the motor. I would be more on board with a 4 day long build off where about 10-15 guys come together over a long weekend and build some bikes together, followed by a day of racing said bikes!
Why not? This is a beginning. We only have to find a place, where this people can meet. I don't think Austria will be the first choice. But you are more than welcome if you want come here…
Last edited by burner77 on Apr 07 2014 12:48am, edited 1 time in total.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by John in CR » Apr 06 2014 4:53pm

etard wrote:I would love to see this happen ,but sadly it will never get past the frame choice or even the motor. I would be more on board with a 4 day long build off where about 10-15 guys come together over a long weekend and build some bikes together, followed by a day of racing said bikes!
There has to be a way to get past always including junk motors in the list, like happened above with someone listing 3 motors, 2 of which come from a junk dealer who would have been run out of ES if it wasn't for the fanboy club who can't grasp the concept that it's possible for untested junk with no QC to have a premium price. That accomplishment alone would be a huge benefit to the hobby.

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zener   1 kW

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by zener » Apr 06 2014 4:55pm

Open source works for some things but not all.
I would consider a bike frame not in this category becouse not all have a welder and stuff.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by dogman dan » Apr 06 2014 4:59pm

See what I mean burner? You won't even get an agreement of what is the ideal wattage here. It's why the forum is so fun.

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Dauntless   100 GW

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by Dauntless » Apr 06 2014 11:06pm

If you came up with a bike, the idea would be to be able to make it with 20", 24", 26", 29" wheels, etc. Some will want the version for the street, some will want a dirtbike. A few might even want a bicycle built for two. Open source means they can adapt the version they want. They just need to find a direction to get started.

Varying the wattage isn't a problem, but you have to stick with an advanced battery and if someone wants to step backwards, that's their business. But you'll have to resolve if it's more important to be powerful, affordable, reliable. Pick two you CAN'T have and that leaves the other. A frame? Nah, it has to fit on a frame of choice. Any frame.

You resolve between front wheel drive or rear, mid drive or hub, because that would be the technology of choice for ES. If someone works with something else, they're not making the open source bike, but they might be using some of the technology.

So forget agreement, just work on consensus.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by spisska » Apr 07 2014 12:22am

... with at least 2,5 kW running with 72V ...
With these specs, you won't be able to import or sell it as a bicycle anywhere. This is a motorcycle, and as such, there are a shit-ton of regulations you have to meet to be able to sell it. The regulations are different depending on where you're trying to sell it.

Think very hard. What are you trying to do?

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Willow   10 kW

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by Willow » Apr 07 2014 2:29am

etard wrote:I would love to see this happen ,but sadly it will never get past the frame choice or even the motor. I would be more on board with a 4 day long build off where about 10-15 guys come together over a long weekend and build some bikes together, followed by a day of racing said bikes!

I like this.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by dogman dan » Apr 07 2014 6:47am

Etard's idea would be fun. Meet at a track, each guy gets a pile of metal and some motors etc. 2-3 days later you race em. Like Junkyard wars more or less.

Thud would kick our ass most of the time, just watching him would be fun as hell. Mine would fall apart since I can't weld for doo doo.

Here is my entry into the ideal frame design for a longer distance commuter bike. Just a sketch in need of real design. The concept is a rack built into the frame, and 4 bar suspension with the shock mounted behind the seat tube. That allows more room for battery in the triangle space.
FS commuter frame concept drawing..jpg
FS commuter frame concept drawing..jpg (94.23 KiB) Viewed 1158 times

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by John in CR » Apr 07 2014 11:02am

spisska wrote:
... with at least 2,5 kW running with 72V ...
With these specs, you won't be able to import or sell it as a bicycle anywhere. This is a motorcycle, and as such, there are a shit-ton of regulations you have to meet to be able to sell it. The regulations are different depending on where you're trying to sell it.

Think very hard. What are you trying to do?
Some people are fortunate enough to live where common sense and individual freedom and responsibility still exist. My ebikes all have the same legal treatment as a simple bicycle, except that I can legally ride on the highway where cyclists are prohibited by law though not enforced because I can exceed the minimum speed. The peak input on my daily rider is 27,000 watts and is the fastest electric bicycle in the world (107mph so far and still only limited by voltage), and it's even street legal with no plates, registration, or inspection requirements. 8)

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etard   1 MW

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by etard » Apr 07 2014 11:09am

Then its settled, er are all going down to John's house and build Ebikes! We will all use HIS motor of choice of course. Oh, and don't forget the Lipo! John will only receive you if you bring at least 4 bricks of lipo. :lol:
Four wheels moves the body, Two wheels moves the soul
Thanks to Justin @ http://www.ebike.ca He brings the soul to ES

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by Dauntless » Apr 07 2014 11:12am

Etard's idea would be reality television. 'A Day at The Grange.'

Except that would be for the Open Source RACING Bike.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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burner77   100 W

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by burner77 » Apr 07 2014 11:28am

Have you been looking on this webblog:
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/internet ... gn.604989/

They builded a full suspension and hunderts of people were making it final. And maybe they have other bikes too…
But it seems to be good for alot of bikers…

It is in German, but if you open it in Google Chrome browser it will be translatet

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by Drunkskunk » Apr 07 2014 12:53pm

The problem with building a bike by consensus is you're building a bike by compromise. It won't be best at anything since it's trying to function at everything.

This is E.S. We can't even agree that we don't all agree. Thats what makes this place great!

A suspension that works well off road isn't the same as a suspension that works well on the street.

I like Dogman's frame idea. But I would do it different: My swing arm on the back of a Stealth Fighter/Raptor/Russian Gull frame, with a modular rear rack bolted on.

4kw is a motorcycle.
If someone wants to build their own 4kw, or hell, 40kw bicycle and ride it as a bike, I say go for it! You're advancing the technology, and advancing humanity as a whole by your efforts. :mrgreen:
If someone builds them and trys to sell then as a mass produced finnished product to people who don't know or want to know what goes into making them, then I have a problem with them being sold as a bicycle. They need to be paying their taxes, insurance, registration, and getting it inspected along with every other motorcycle on the road. and they need to have the same liscens as the equivilent motorcycle.
The last thing we need is a 4kw ebike in the hands of a bunch of 9 year olds doing 60mph on the freeways. While I am a big fan of natural selection, I'm not a fan of the laws that would inevitably come cracking down on the rest of us when the inevitable happens.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
Monster Bike:http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=38667

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Re: Building our own open source forum bike

Post by MadRhino » Apr 07 2014 3:26pm

ES is already open source to build the bike that is meeting your requirement, whatever they are. Then, there are so many different requirements among e-bikers that it is absolutely impossible to design one bike that everyone will be happy with.

Define your needs, and find on ES all the info to build it at first try. If you are good at finding information, and at asking the good questions, you will succeed as many of us did. Then you upgrade your requirements and build another one, and another as many of us did. :wink:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

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