V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

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Mundo   100 W

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V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Mundo » Jun 14 2014 7:30pm

Need help configuring CA-V3

Technical writing is an art....I'm sure many people here fully understand all the ins & outs of setting up a CA-V3s.

First after setting up everything, the bike was sluggish and underwhelming at 36 VDC.

I disconnected the CA and tried again, mush better!

Went through the CA setup again, this time the bike performed little better, still underwhelming.

Many of the steps in the CA-V3 manual are Greek to me........no offence to Greek speakers :)

There has to be one or two steps I'm doing wrong or not doing.

I have set shunt at 2,11 k-ohms

The batteries I am using are Pings, two 36 vdc 20 ah batteries. Bike is an older Mundo V-2

Pictures to follow in a week or so.

I live in an apartment, so I am doing this build at my father's house.

Additionally, I wired these Ping batteries to 72 vdc with-out the CA, WOW!
Really fast.....

Anyway, suggestion welcome.

Here's some additional details.

Controller Type: 9 fet 30A (36-72VDC, IRFB4110)
Motor Speed: 255rpm loaded @36VDC 10T Upgrade with thermal couple
Rear Wheel Type: 26" Alex DX32 CNC
Throttle Type: Thumb
Ebrakes:
7sp 11T Freewheel
V3 Cycle Analyst Ebike Computer, CA-DPS
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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by teklektik » Jun 14 2014 9:04pm

Well - it's always disappointing to hear that the Guide was unsuccessful at helping get a CA running - let's see what we can do...

It sounds like you have a 10T MAC and so I'm guessing that you got our V3 from EM3ev and it's a CA-DPS model. The shunt value you used should be from the controller case. 2.11mOhm doesn't sound unreasonable.

Unfortunately, except for saying that you don't understand the Guide and that the bike doesn't run well, you haven't really asked a specific question or offered any specific configuration information. You are going to have to help out here by going to the Guide and posting what you did in each step in section 4 starting at the beginning at section 4.1. We need to know everything so we understand what you have or haven't done.

You can be brief - for instance.
4.1 - skipped step because V3 came from ebikes.ca
4.2.1.1 - hooked up according to case A
4.2.2 - mounted wheel pickup
4.2.3 - plugged hall throttle into CA

(see? not too bad...)

I know this is a drag, but since you didn't indicate exactly what you didn't understand, we're going with the shotgun approach - there's not much choice but to get what you did in your own words so missteps can be seen. If you come to a step that doesn't make sense, post a question about that step so clearer instructions can be afforded. If you can't get to your bike for a week, then in the interim, take the time to very carefully review each step and post up your questions so the Greek can be translated before you start working on the bike again.

When you get to step 4.7, use the CA Setup Utility to suck the configuration to a file, change the extension from '.hex' to '.txt' and post it up here so the setup can be reviewed without a lot of typing at your end. Also post up any problems you observe according to the test ride in step 4.7 and what you did to remedy. Be sure to post up a second or final Setup Utility file that reflects the final state of affairs and any persisting issue.

With this stuff it will be clear what you did, how the CA was configured, what you perceived as problems, and how the issues were addressed. With luck, all will be well - if not, all the information should be available for review and we can prepare for Round Three...
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Mundo   100 W

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Mundo » Jun 14 2014 10:31pm

teklektik,

Thanks for your support,

You are correct, 10T with CA-V3 from cellman.

I'll start again at section 4.1 and report back.

In the meantime, when I start to ride the bike, acceleration is good, 1500 watts or better, just for a moment. After that, watts drop to 400ish.

Once again, performance is great with the CA disconnected, I've just missed something in the set-up.

I will be back at the bike next weekend and write down more comprehensive info about set-up and display.

Bob
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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 15 2014 12:23am

Maybe you need to turn your amp limit from 20amps to 30amps ?

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by vptech » Jun 15 2014 3:51am

what is your battery settings on your CA set to? type and voltage? you don't want to run a mac at those volts. cellman sets it up at optimal settings for you if he knows what you are using. 72v at 30A that you are running without the CA could burn your motor on first ride. It should be around 1500w and drop down for normal settings. what is the no load top speed?

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by justin_le » Jun 15 2014 10:51am

Mundo wrote: First after setting up everything, the bike was sluggish and underwhelming at 36 VDC.
I disconnected the CA and tried again, mush better!
Just a quick question Mundo, is it possible that you had your throttle plugged into the controller in both cases? If so, that would explain it, since with the V3 CA devices you should be plugging the throttle into the CA itself and not into the controller.

-Justin
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Ypedal » Jun 15 2014 11:05am

I've had the CA-3 covered in dust for over a year until last night, i really wanted to dedicate proper time to learn it's many... many..... many features.... ouf.... finally it's time !

I intend to do a full-on youtube video of it in the next few weeks, not a quick and easy one to do.

Working on cutting out the dead spots in my throttle range after i flash from Beta20 version lol... today is the day.
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Mundo   100 W

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Mundo » Jun 15 2014 5:40pm

Just a quick question Mundo, is it possible that you had your throttle plugged into the controller in both cases? If so, that would explain it, since with the V3 CA devices you should be plugging the throttle into the CA itself and not into the controller.

-Justin
Gzee, after thinking about this, I believe the throttle is hooked directly to the controller.

As I stated before, the bike is at a different location from where I live.
I'll try and get over there this week and confirm where the throttle is hooked up.

Thanks for the heads up.
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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Mundo » Jun 16 2014 8:23pm

Alright, I got more info today....

First, Justin was right, I had the throttle wires hooked to the controller.
I have fixed that.

Here are some details.

78.1 VDC (today)
Two 36 VDC Pings 20 AH

Wheel size 27.2 - Mi Wheel size was a guess from chart.

Setup Batt 72vdc LiFe 'A" Might need to be higher?

Setup Throt IN 0.86V 00%

Setup throt out 0.96-4.62V

Setup Speed Lims 199 MPH

Setup Power Lims 25 AMPS 1500 Watts

Setup Pas Sensor Off

Setup TRQ 4.73V-446NM

Setup Temp Sensor 0.43V 42.3 degree(?)

Setup Calibration 2.11 M-ohms

Setup Presets 1 Mode 1 Batt

The bike seems to be a little better, however, it's a little chuggy under load, maybe more like a pulse feeling (under load)
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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Mundo » Jun 17 2014 9:50am

After checking Grin Techs web site, perhaps these two areas need to be adjusted to control pulses.....

There are so many options in the V3-CA, I'll need to learn by trial and error.



A Gain: Feedback gain for the current control loop. Generally it should be increased until you start to feel the current limit being rough or oscillating, and then scaled back about 30%.

Speed (kph): User throttle directly controls the speed of the bike, from 0 up to the value in Max Speed. This is not a recommended throttle mode for most scenarios as small twitches in the throttle can result in large pulses of power as the bike attempts to track this.
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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by teklektik » Jun 17 2014 11:45am

Mundo wrote:There are so many options in the V3-CA, I'll need to learn by trial and error.
Both fortunately and unfortunately - there ARE many options - not only for your bike for a spectrum of vehicles which may require entirely different configuration of the same parameters. It is the flexibility of the device that makes it wonderfully useful but not easily explained.

The Setup parameters may behave or interact in non-obvious ways so understanding what is going on under the covers can be useful to know what to adjust and how. Affording this background material is largely what makes the Guide seem slow reading and too technical for some. Specifically, the installation section describes why the throttle is adjusted as it is, how ramping and gain adjustments affect operation, and use of the Diagnostic Screen to resolve tuning problems. This technical stuff can minimize 'trial and error' tuning and help get the best adjustments.
Mundo wrote:After checking Grin Techs web site, perhaps these two areas need to be adjusted to control pulses.....

A Gain: Feedback gain for the current control loop. Generally it should be increased until you start to feel the current limit being rough or oscillating, and then scaled back about 30%.

Speed (kph): User throttle directly controls the speed of the bike, from 0 up to the value in Max Speed. This is not a recommended throttle mode for most scenarios as small twitches in the throttle can result in large pulses of power as the bike attempts to track this.
As an example of the 'installation explanations' mentioned above, the installation procedure in section "4.9 Adjust Gain: Minimize Surging or Speed Oscillations" contains the exact quote about AGain that you mention above. You will also find a discussion of Speed Gains which should indicate why they are unlikely to be relevant in your case.

In any case, I am certain the V3 can enhance the value of your bike experience however you get the knowledge to adjust it. Enjoy! :D
Visit Grin Technologies at www.ebikes.ca
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Mundo   100 W

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Mundo » Jun 22 2014 8:02pm

Update, I am making progress with the V3 CA.
I'm sure after some time I'll understand these settings better.
I think I'm about 80% there with the settings, when I get a little further, I'll post the settings.

Here's the bike I'm working on

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by liamcaff » Jul 01 2014 8:04pm

Just letting MacOS people on here know - I have the Cycle Analyst Utility Program successfully running on 'Parallels Desktop 8' running 'Windows 8.1' on my Macbook Pro.

Was tricky to get going but it's working a treat.

If anyone is having trouble using their MAC computer with the Cycle Analyst - let me know.

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Mundo » Jul 19 2014 7:26pm

Okay, I received the programming cable from GRIN, I know that I'm running this motor hot and pulling too much from the batteries

I'm certainly ready for some help dialing it in.

I've only ridden very short rides, around the block.

The throttle is real sensitive and the 3 speed switch could use some help.

It would be great if the 3 speed was set, Low =10 mph Med = 20 mph and High was no more than 25 mph.

If I have it right, below is the copied text from the CA.

Any guidance would be appreciated.



:020000040001F9
:10E044000000010008000800460000000000000075
:10E05400000000000000000036007B0004004C00BB
:10E064000D00AC004D00BC004D00BC0000000000E1
:10E0740000000000000000000B00B8002600AC0007
:10E084002600AC000700D0002600AC002600AC003F
:10E09400050014000300E8000000180000001E0042
:10E0A40000001E0001000000960003002000010093
:10E0B400F400D800CC002E001B0008007F000700ED
:10E0C400FF000700FF0005000000D800F000F20088
:10E0D4000400030008001300880028000000190051
:10E0E40000000100F40000000000000064000800CB
:10E0F4002600AC002600AC002600AC003300B200C1
:10E10400FF00F70031002A00D8008E00EB00FE006B
:10E1140012009E000100DE000100DE0012009900E2
:10E124000300BA000300BA0012009A0001002C0098
:10E1340001000100010002000200000000000000D4
:10E144000000000002000000000018000D000300A1
:10E1540000000700D0000300E800000000001200E7
:10E16400F1000000000000000000000005000000B5
:10E1740000001E0033001700700007006C00000050
:10E184000500000064000000F8000000000000002A
:10E194000700BC00000005000000000000000000B3
:10E1A400000000000000000000000000000000006B
:10E1B400C3005000C300500027000F000F00FF00F1
:10E1C400FF00FF00FF00FF00FF00FF000000000051
:10E1D40000000000FF00FF00FE000000C30050002C
:10E1E400800080007F00A2005C00CA003C000000A8
:0BE1F4001D00E1000000000019007693
:00000001FF
:040000CA5633303049
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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Mundo » Jul 20 2014 11:42am

Perhaps I should try a different approach, here's some screen grabs.
If anyone can offer better settings, that'd be great.
Attachments
SG_A.jpg
SG_A.jpg (115.96 KiB) Viewed 4516 times
SG_B.jpg
SG_B.jpg (105.57 KiB) Viewed 4516 times
SG_C.jpg
SG_C.jpg (114.68 KiB) Viewed 3441 times
SG_D.jpg
SG_D.jpg (111.05 KiB) Viewed 4516 times
SG_E.jpg
SG_E.jpg (115.31 KiB) Viewed 4516 times
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izeman   100 GW

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by izeman » Jul 20 2014 1:54pm

teklektik wrote: "4.9 Adjust Gain: Minimize Surging or Speed Oscillations" contains the exact quote about AGain that you mention above. You will also find a discussion of Speed Gains which should indicate why they are unlikely to be relevant in your case.

In any case, I am certain the V3 can enhance the value of your bike experience however you get the knowledge to adjust it. Enjoy! :D
teklektik: i really like your setup guide and find the time you invested impressive. but to be honest: i never really understood/stand this 'gain adjustement' part. i don't know if it's my english or something else, but after over a year i still don't really get it. ;)
i know what it's for and that it for controlling pumping, overshooting and surging of power application, but i'm not sure it's set correctly on my bike.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by teklektik » Jul 20 2014 4:15pm

izeman wrote:...but to be honest: i never really understood/stand this 'gain adjustement' part. i don't know if it's my english or something else, but after over a year i still don't really get it.
Ya - it's not your English - I'm not very satisfied with that section of the manual myself. Software PI/PID controller gain adjustments are relatively easy to understand - if you understand PI/PID controllers :? . I side-stepped the controller explanation and just borrowed the gain explanation from the Grin Tech web page, but that may not have been a successful strategy.

I will try to re-write that part to clarify how the Gain adjustment affects operation and how to home in on a 'Good' value. Thanks for your comment - calling out specific issues is very helpful :D.
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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Ypedal » Jul 20 2014 4:55pm

I admit stupidity in that realm as well..... :oops:

I always considered " gain " as relative to " Volume " ie : more gain, more power , more volume.... for simple folk like me.
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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by izeman » Jul 21 2014 1:58am

Ypedal wrote:I admit stupidity in that realm as well..... :oops:

I always considered " gain " as relative to " Volume " ie : more gain, more power , more volume.... for simple folk like me.
same here.

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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Mundo » Jul 22 2014 9:13pm

I'm still moving forward with programming the CA-V3
Whenever I read or write to the Ca, I get this warning, is this normal?
CA_Warning.jpg
CA_Warning.jpg (135.81 KiB) Viewed 4403 times
After reading or writing, I get a successful message.
Write_sucessful.jpg
Write_sucessful.jpg (122.41 KiB) Viewed 4403 times
Any advice?
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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by melodious » Jul 22 2014 10:42pm

Mundo wrote:It would be great if the 3 speed was set, Low =10 mph Med = 20 mph and High was no more than 25 mph.
I have 3 "power" modes preset that I've programmed into my CAv3.
1. Econo: max watts is limited to 350. Makes dense pedestrian traffic manageable. Also, holds my animal instinct in check from going power mad. At first, I tried to make it 250 watts, but in a 29er it was too anemic.
2. USA power limit: max watts limited to 750. I find this to be a great conservation mode as well, as it easily gets my bike into the 20-25mph (32-40kph), which to many Ebikers is the ideal speed to safely compete with most road traffic. Hills at this level, can slow you down, but add some human effort into the equation and it's truly not so bad.
3. Max power: 1200watts (for my 10t MAC it's what gets me into the 30mph zone weeee :!: ) I could set it more, but I've found this to be a good spot for a higher performance. In reality, it's the beginning of the high performance equation. It skyrockets from here into multi Kilowatts going to the motor (only if you have the right motor/controller/battery configuration though)

Each of these modes are further dissected via the 3 speed switch. Lowest speed switch in econo mode, is almost completely lacking in power but the rest of my modes they serve certain purposes well. Hope my experiences with the CAv3 helps in your perfect setup. :idea:
Surly Ogre rigid 29er, rear 10T MAC @ 50V 25AH & 40A: 30mph road/gravel/hill machine
42" dual diagonal Eskateboard @6s & 90mm wheels
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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Mundo » Jul 23 2014 11:08am

About the warning message, should I re-flash the CA, or do a full reset?

Perhaps I should be working directly with Grin or Cellman!

This setup has gotten very frustrating.........
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Re: V3 Cycle Analyst set-up for dummies

Post by Jyee81 » Sep 02 2019 11:03pm

So I have a CA-V3 DPS with the additional shunt to put in line with the battery in the controller however when I turn on the cycle analyst with the throttle output going into the throttle input of a controller and all the other connections are fine I'm getting 48 volts powered on on the cycle analyst but 0 Watts. what could be the problem and it's two separate controllers that are both showing 48 volts powering on but zero watts is what is showing can anyone please help me out... frustrated and desperate

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