new eZip motor

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 01 2020 2:45am

Oops!
2000w motor output will not get you to 40mph!
If geared perfectly, you could attain around 37mph. *
36V "1000w" motor is labeled 36V x 30.5A = 1098 input watts x 80% efficiency = 878.4 motor output watts
48V "1000w" motor is labeled 48V x 20.8A = 998.4 input watts x 80% efficiency = 798.72 motor output watts
< 1800w motor output, if geared perfectly, could attain near 36mph. *

Don't fall victim to deceivious sellers who rate motors by input watts!
Compare to your original eZip "450w" motor - 24V x 35A oem controller = 840w input
If you switched to a 36V 35A controller, your motor was taking in 1260w for a 675w motor output.

40mph requires a minimum 2250w motor output, 2500w to guarantee?
* based on typical mountain bike
Last edited by DrkAngel on Dec 01 2020 3:21am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Dec 01 2020 3:18am

One guy posted about using a dc-dc boost converter on his ebike hub motor battery to get more voltage, but efficiency takes a hit. Not sure what the voltages were, I think he was going from a typical 18V/20V (whatever the marketing gimmick of brand is) but they are 5S tool pack brick batteries up converting to 10S 36V. The closer the voltages the less the efficiency hit is my guess.

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 01 2020 3:58am

40mph requires a minimum 2250w motor output, 2500w to guarantee?
36V "1000w" motor is labeled 36V x 30.5A = 1098 input watts x 80% efficiency = 878.4 motor output watts
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Thank you for that information DA.

The important thing is to achieve a goal with as short budget as Markz had a good point about spending a lot of money. I attempted to acquire an America trade account and was considering throwing a few bucks at a stock or two. Also there is future housing if I ever want to move out of this shoe box.

I already own a 48V brush controller and they are less than 20 bucks and I also own 44V LiPo which if are still good will get me those 2,500 watts needed.

1,000W / 36V = 27.7 * 45V = 1,250W

3.000 rpm / 36V = 83.3 * 45V = 3,750 rpm.

Only problem is Electric scooter parts wont have 72T - 8mm sprockets until some time in FEB so will be custom and a little over double the price. I will make it a winter project for a spring test drive and am ordering two motors in two days if they are still there. I will see if electric scooter parts can send me an e mail as soon as they are back in stock. Less than 60 bucks for both vs 64 bucks for 1 custom sprocket.

I have one brush 48V controller and one 36V controller. I would need one more of each so four controllers on my triangle rack. :mrgreen: Single throttle as same gearing and 44V LiPo packs to two 48V controllers. Or my 10S - 36V packs with the 36V controllers. I will need some more bullets and is not my first dual chain drive. 40+ mph. :twisted:

I just saw a better deal on e bay. It is a little more money than the two 36V brush motors but this comes with the controller so wont need to order two brush controllers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brushless-Elec ... 0005.m1851

I will still order one of the 36V - 1,000 watt motors. I could put it on the front for.

1,000W / 36 = 27.7 * 45 = 1,250 watts.

3,000 / 60 = 50 * 45 = 2,250 watts.

1250 + 2,250 = 3,500 watts. @ 45V

3,500 / 45 = 77.7 * 52 = 4,044 watts - 50 mph ?????????

If 45V cant do 50 mph then can 52V and 4 kilowatts total do the trick. ????

However I will probably be scared at 40 mph and end up using the 36V brush motor for a different build. :oops: :lol:


Thanks.

LC. out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 01 2020 7:20pm

It is snowing hard outside and the roads are shot. Winter is here. I took the van to Auto zone yesterday to get shrink wrap to solder the wires on that hub motor then went to KFC to pick up dinner.

The blower motor is shot in the van so have no defrosters or heat in the front, The rear seems to work ok.
My wind shield wipers do work.

I know this is not e bike related and I apologize for that but need some advice from DA or anyone who knows about SLA batteries. I do not plan on driving much this winter but when the roads are clear may want to go to the bike shop to get brake work done on my e bikes as well as an occasional Wall- Mart trip when it is like zero degrees outside.

I already know the best thing to do would be a garage but also know it could run me 300 or 400 bucks as they have to pull the dash apart and charge 100 bucks an hour labor. Therefore am looking at a better less expensive option. I know running an e bike on average is about 500 watts easily just going 15 mph on flat and SLAs do work for a few miles.

I have one 22 Ah - SLA and am ordering a second for 24V e bike applications in my future as own two 24V controllers for brush motors. I am looking at this if it can do the trick to defrost my front windshield. I do not like riding in someone's car especially when I have a heavy coat and sweat shirt and they crank the heat full blast. It has caused arguments as I cant breath right and makes me sick.

I have been opening my windows in the front but that wont be good when the temperature goes down to 10 degrees and below. I wear layers of clothes so am comfortable at 40 to 50 degrees in my van so this heater basically will be used to see out my front window and keep the inside above freezing.
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I will need the 400 watt inverter as only have the 120 watt right now.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Dec 01 2020 7:32pm

Whats the year of your van, the older the easier it is to work on it.

Here is a cheap inverter
https://www.walmart.com/ip/5000W-6000W- ... /856302259

Your going to use an indoor mini heater for your van?

You can buy vehicle specific heaters, that can plug into an outlet through your window or firewall.

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/vehi ... p.html#srp

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/litt ... c=true#spc

Meanwhile you might as well plug in one of these
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/temr ... c=true#spc
and
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Battery-Tend ... r/36007112

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 01 2020 8:31pm

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by 99t4 » Dec 01 2020 8:45pm

latecurtis wrote:
Nov 28 2020 4:42pm
I also have a crash helmet the guy downstairs gave me. Wiping out at around 40 mph sounds really painful. I will try to avoid that if possible. :roll: I would rather skip any hospital trips if I can.
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You probably know this already, but to avoid confusing future naive readers, that (what you have pictured) is not a crash helmet. It's a base-level bicycle helmet, better than nothing at a 40 MPH crash, but not as helpful as a real crash helmet. As you already recognize, an unwanted surprise at 40 MPH can get hairy pretty quick so good safety gear is well worth it.

Not saying you need a crash helmet, but maybe at the least a better helmet than that green one is in order. Figure it as part of the 40 MPH package. And no flip-flops, lol. :lol:

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 01 2020 9:14pm

Since your quest for 40mph is liable to be a "one off" adventure ...

Just put your biggest DC brush motor on the rear of some bike, parallel all your 36V batteries into 2 equal batteries, run the 2 batteries in series for 72V, rig power from battery to motor through your 60A breaker.

Ready?
Long level straightaway, speedometer, camera, life insurance ...
Pedal up to best speed, hold on and engage breaker.
Should be good for at least 1 40mph run!

PS pray you hooked up the pos/neg correctly!
Last edited by DrkAngel on Dec 02 2020 7:29am, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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markz   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Dec 01 2020 11:13pm

That 72V spark is quite the flash when hooking up the battery to controller.

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 02 2020 12:44am

:lol:

I have the pre hook up cable.

I will probably only need a decent 16S - 10P - pack with that 3 killowatt 60V brushless motor to achieve 40 mph.

I have been busy soldering. The air purifier does the trick. You know how the iron smokes for about 20 or 30 seconds sometimes. I held it in front of the purifier and it sucked the smoke in. I have a barley noticeable head ache. I usually have a bad head ache after soldering. I used flux on all the wires but ran out of shrink tubes. They only have 1 or 2 tubes the correct size as assorted pack'

I ordered liquid electrical tape and will be here around the 7th my e mail said. I will coat the wires with that and let dry over night then wrap with thin strips of electrical tape.

I soldered and shrink tubed all the wires inside the motor and zip tied them. I used two wires with the other wires taped to them to pull it up through. After two attempts I did it. Not sure if it will work but deserve an A for effort on this one.

Thanks.

LC. out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 02 2020 12:54am

markz wrote:
Dec 01 2020 11:13pm
That 72V spark is quite the flash when hooking up the battery to controller.
No controller!
Straight to dc brush motor through 80v 60a breaker.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Dec 02 2020 3:37pm, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 02 2020 1:00am

I just soldered the wires. Not worried about 40 mph until I get my 3 killowatt brushless motor.

Right now I am trying to get this 1.000 watt hub motor fixed and running on the 26" dual suspension.

I will be working on that again when the liquid electrical tape comes in in a few days.

Thanks.

LC. out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Dec 02 2020 5:03am

Yeah that'll work, the liquid electrical tape seems strong but its actually quite easy to tear off so the electrical tape will help. I would honestly try to find a better method like using some sort of strong epoxy.

latecurtis wrote:
Dec 02 2020 12:44am
I ordered liquid electrical tape and will be here around the 7th my e mail said. I will coat the wires with that and let dry over night then wrap with thin strips of electrical tape.

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 02 2020 5:08am

Yea.

I did not feel like waiting. I cut strips of electrical tape into thin 7 or 8" strips and wrapped each wire with 3 strips. It took awhile but guess what.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5zBb25 ... e=youtu.be

I successfully soldered all 8 wires INSIDE the motor after BUTCHERING all the wires. There was minimal damage to start with and all that was needed was a little hot glue but I just had to take it apart to see the inside first hand (not on a YouTube video).

The thumb throttle is damaged. It probably happened in the move. I need to order a new one. Also I still want to run the hub motor on the back. The rim has a high spot in it but may not be as noticeable on the back.

I just want to run the bike and get as much use out of it as I can. I am amazed how simple a direct drive hub motor is. Very few moving parts. I was not sure I would ever get that running again. I surprised myself this time. I thank all of you for my victory as you all have supported me for years by posting and giving me advice.

I do not have a lot like rich people do but do have my little e bike work shop and this forum to interact with. It means a lot.
It looks like I will have five running e bikes soon when I finish that. I really do not need any more but am still ordering the 3 kilowatt motor and going 40 mph though. :twisted: That did not change. :lol:

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Dec 02 2020 5:59am

Direct drive hub motors are simple and easy to fix and yet you really dont require hall sense wires for dd's to run. I use sensorless controllers and they work well.

Fixing things is about doing the simple things first and checking that off your list first before you start getting into complex things. Like with your van you will see if the tank has fuel in it first, then go down the list of checking all the easy things fist then you can start pulling codes from the OBD1/2, then you scope the cylinders. Hub motors are super duper simple, see if the wires are frayed from the axle, sniff it to see if the windings are burnt, sniff the controller for burnt fets or caps, rotate motor to see if phases are touching after the easy stuff is checked out then open the controller and look for shit stains, pull the cover plate off, measure phase resistance, replace magnets, rewind motor. Easy to Hard.

latecurtis wrote:
Dec 02 2020 5:08am
I am amazed how simple a direct drive hub motor is. Very few moving parts. I was not sure I would ever get that running again. I surprised myself this time. I thank all of you for my victory as you all have supported me for years by posting and giving me advice.

I do not have a lot like rich people do but do have my little e bike work shop and this forum to interact with. It means a lot.
It looks like I will have five running e bikes soon when I finish that. I really do not need any more but am still ordering the 3 kilowatt motor and going 40 mph though. :twisted: That did not change. :lol:

Thanks.

LC. out.

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 02 2020 7:37am

Direct drive hub motors are simple and easy to fix and yet you really don't require hall sense wires for dd's to run. I use sensor less controllers and they work well.
Please tell me more about sensor less controllers. I am good now but really don't like those tiny wires. It was tedious and as you see in my pics and videos the landline phone cable did the trick but the wires were way too thin for wire crimpers and used a lighter and spit on my fingers to strip away the insulation. The lighter actually burned thru the tiny copper windings several times and had to repeat for a good connection. Also the landline cable was only good for four wires. The fifth I had to do separate.

I would love to buy a sensor less controller just to see it work. I am the kind of guy that would carry it with me onboard just in case one of those sensor wires were to fail and have it ready for plug and play. I believe in if it is not broke do not fix it. I love that expression. However I also love the expression " be prepared" I attach bullet connecters to all my controllers so I can switch controllers in a minute or two. Like I said in earlier posts I would mount two or three different controllers to change the rpms of a motor for hills or flat.

I like versatility as well as simplicity. I will defiantly order a sensor less controller. That means the only wires needed are the motor wires and the 5 sensor wires do not need to be hooked up ? If that is the case I will order it today or tomorrow. I just have to see that.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 02 2020 1:48pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo fire burns.

Thank you DA. for the link for that heater. I plan on buying two and a second 22 Ah - SLA.

I know I said many times I would NEVER buy lead ass batteries again. I guess I lied but maybe not as they serve a different purpose than powering an e bike. Lights for one as far as e bikes go I can power my 20 watt 1,700 lumen light. I can trickle charge my van battery overnight if I need to when temperatures drop below zero. I can even charge LiPo out in the van if I want to and still power an e bike but is NOT my main battery for a bike due to weight and limited charging cycles.

It is a sunny and perfect day for an onboard video with the 1,500 watt brushless controller and 1,800 watt brushless motor on the little 20" bike however I want to hook up a speedo. and be able to see it during the video so will need to bring it up stairs and figure that out. I will be taking the dual suspension to a bike shop this week to get the rim fixed. There is a high spot in the wheel and googled it and saw that an experienced bike shop can fix that. Also I have to order a new 4 wire thumb throttle for that.

I looked at some sensor less controllers and read some posts on those. They do not work well for geared hub motors but are fine for direct drives. I doubt I will actually need to get one any time soon as I think my solder job will hold. The iron is way better than any other iron I have had as far as a 30 watt iron goes. I covered each wire with the flux and the iron melted the solder with no problem.

The 60 watt iron I broke got just as hot but the wire to plug it in was cheap thin 22 or 24 gauge wire. This iron is at least 18 gauge. The old iron had a temperature knob but the tips had to be ordered online and that is how it got broke taking it apart to fit a different tip as all the tips I ordered that DA.. said to order literally disintegrated.

Hopefully I will have a video up this week and will be riding the 1,000 watt hub motor in a week or two if I can get some fast shipping on that 4 wire throttle. I still plan on running the 1,000 watt front hub motor on the back with no pedal like I did with the 800 watt front hub motor on the back of the 20" turbo. It just seems to ride better than having a hub in the front.

I might even put a chain drive on the front simply because I can and it won't cost much. For less than 1.000 watts #25 chain is ideal as 80 - 89 tooth #25 sprockets are under 30 bucks.

Thanks.

LC. out.



.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Dec 02 2020 2:59pm

Yup its just the phase wires that are connected, then the controller will have a learn function, two white wires you connect together and the motor spins and you change direction with the throttle. Super easy but it might not be as smooth take off as compared to using hall sense wires, I've used both and never really saw a difference but there might be for a very slow take off.

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 02 2020 7:22pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP_gBUS ... e=youtu.be

I went to wall mart for a small air pump and to put money on my card to order the SLA , 12V heaters and 4 wire thumb throttle.

Don't know why most of the parking lot video did not record. That parking lot is behind Wall Mart. The front was full of cars and people.

I still need to hook up the speedo.

If still available I will order the 1,000 watt 36V - 3,000 rpm motor for the front of the dual suspension. The 1,000 watt 26" 28 mph @ 48V hub motor on the back will probably only do about 24 mph at 42 - 36V. Not sure. I plan on hooking the speedo to it and get a top speed reading at full charge - 10S. Then Will gear the 36V - 1,000W motor as close as possible for the front which will be about 666 watts @ 24v. The upgrade would be 48V for the hub motor and 36V for the chain drive and gearing should be around 30 mph.

Thanks.

LC. out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Dec 02 2020 10:48pm

That motor is pretty loud in the video.

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 03 2020 2:25am

Yes.

and not really my favorite e bike.

The Giant Roam would be that and have not rode it yet and owned it about three years. DAN dealt with those particular motors and knows the limitations. Easy Street was the first. A Giant Cypress Hybrid. Front hub motor. 500 watts.

The 26" dual suspension was the second 500 watt e bikeling hub motor.

Now both are on the giant Roam and the 1,000 watt motor Dan sent I completally re wired and is going on the 26" dual suspension for a massive cargo build.

I know they are good on flat and top speed with the 700c is good. The limitations are hills and can never accelerate like the 1.800W brushless motor but have not rode it yet with two motors. Maybe it can. I think the e bikeling motor can do 25 mph on the flat Not sure about the 1,800W brushless motor until I hook up the speedo.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Dec 03 2020 2:43am, edited 1 time in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Dec 03 2020 2:40am

Well you sure won't need a bell on your handlebars then.

I wonder how dogs will react to that sound.

I had a dog bark like crazy today, thankfully it was on a leash. The homeowner was doing yard work.

I've had dogs chase after me and of course I go just fast enough so the dog chases longer and longer and further and further away from its owner, look its not my fault its the speed I'm comfortable at :wink: :lol:

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 03 2020 2:52am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiuPo Fire Burns. Dogs Turds.

've had dogs chase after me and of course I go just fast enough so the dog chases longer and longer and further and further away from its owner
Been homeless , drunk , young and dumb. In Florida 30 years ago with a big Doberman chasing a yankee ( me ) down the road and was on a pedal bike. half drunk from a party on the beach. Big white teeth. I used a heavy link chain and padlock to clonk that beast in the head as he wanted to make a dog turd out of me. The owner would probably fed what was left to the other dogs and clothing and Ids would be ashes in a burn barrel. He ran. He lived and was running in opposite direction.

LOL/

Brings back memories.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Dec 03 2020 5:32am

That motor of yours sounds like Ken Rocks Mach E
1500HP, like 8 motors, 58kw battery and 4000ft lbs of torque, but the sound, just listen to the sound it makes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-7jBLqSlzg

Imagine that sound, cruising up behind some old lady walking her poodle 30 ft away from her

DAND214   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Dec 03 2020 4:19pm

Too loud! Sounds like the chain is too tight, as I here a click click a lot. like the chain is hitting a spot or more on the sprockets, or a few master links.

Sensorless controllers are pretty common now. Had/have one back in 07 still have it. It does work on a geared hub but not as well as a DD. I felt a lose in top speed or power. I would think they are better now than years ago. They are good to have as a spare or using when you loose a hall or a connection.

Sunder is the one that sent you the HUB motor. All I sent was batteries and charger. A few odds and ends too.

Dan

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