new eZip motor

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 28 2021 5:33am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo fire burns.

Yea.

I got in the mood to solder again. It did not go too bad. I have had a lot of worse days doing it.

I finally broke in the Weller.

The first cell I soldered was the negative side of a 26650 cell. The positive side already had a wire soldered to it that would not pull apart. I did not get crazy and use vice grips and yank as hard as possible but did give it a strong enough tug to know it was not separating easily.

The biggest lesson I learned in all this is the surface area when soldering is most important. Not flux. Flux really don't matter. I bought really good quality solder acid which I could not solder a joint at all. It was most difficult but works better with no flux.

Here is the picture of the first solder joint with the Weller.
IMG_0583.JPG
IMG_0583.JPG (4.16 MiB) Viewed 456 times
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 28 2021 5:35am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo fire burns.

Yea.

I got in the mood to solder again. It did not go too bad. I have had a lot of worse days doing it.

I finally broke in the Weller.

The first cell I soldered was the negative side of a 26650 cell. The positive side already had a wire soldered to it that would not pull apart. I did not get crazy and use vice grips and yank as hard as possible but did give it a strong enough tug to know it was not separating easily.

The biggest lesson I learned in all this is the surface area when soldering is most important. Not flux. Flux really don't matter. I bought really good quality solder acid which I could not solder a joint at all. It was most difficult but works better with no flux.

Here is the picture of the first solder joint with the Weller.
IMG_0604.JPG
IMG_0604.JPG (4.49 MiB) Viewed 453 times
I did a second joint as well after attempting it with one of my 60 watt irons.
IMG_0604.JPG
IMG_0604.JPG (4.49 MiB) Viewed 453 times
Those are the solder joints I did with the Weller.

The 60 watt iron failed after 30 seconds of molten solder. It took about 10 seconds to stick with the Weller.

The thing about the Weller on the negative side of a 26650 cell is the surface area. It is much larger than the positive side.

The molten solder ball was all over the place and very cumbersome with the large tip I never used before. But even if the tip had a slightly lower surface temperature it is three times larger than the tip on the 60 watt iron.

My lesson is surface temperature of the surface you are soldering to is everything. It is the trick. The larger tip heats up more surface area which makes the solder stick.

Basically the only reason for plugging the irons in is the fact that I am dealing with packs that need to be re soldered. Or de soldered. One thing I noticed is de - soldering is much more difficult than re - soldering. For some reason once solder hardens it does not want to melt again. It becomes resistant to temperature.
IMG_0593.JPG
IMG_0593.JPG (4.68 MiB) Viewed 452 times
I got 60 cells like that that I soldered a single 16 gauge wire to. It was a big mistake. Notice the middle cell. NOT STICKING. Thanks to Backlight I realized I was building 600 or 800 watt packs, NOT 3 kilowatt packs as using 16 gauge wire across 5 cells instead of a 16 gauge wire connected to EACH cell. I can solder 12 or 10 gauge wire to ALL five 16 gauge wires coming from each cell. A lot of extra work compared to the copper strip but still doable.

The fact is the positive side of a 26650 cell is a lot less surface area. You can tell just by looking at the positive solder joints they are stronger. It did the trick for the positive side. I can not pull those joints apart.

I did not want to even try the Weller on the positive side as the big tip gave me not much control at all and the molten solder ball moved around. Notice the large tip I used for the 60 watt iron though.
IMG_0599.JPG
IMG_0599.JPG (4.59 MiB) Viewed 449 times
IMG_0600.JPG
IMG_0600.JPG (4.42 MiB) Viewed 449 times
IMG_0585.JPG
IMG_0585.JPG (5.08 MiB) Viewed 446 times
Out of 80 cells I have 30 I built solderless packs with. A solderless 6S - 5P pack I am tearing apart as I want 6S - 5P LIFEPO4 to fit in the black hyper tough box. I need batteries to be compact. A soldered or spot welded pack will take up about 40% less space than solderless.

I spent 230 bucks on the 26650 cells. All positive solder joints are great. I have been able to peel off most of the negative joints.

The only logical thing now to do is only solder what needs to be soldered. Basically I wanted to try out the Weller and those two solder joints did stick on the negative side but all the other positive joints were from the 60 watt iron and they are good solder joints. Yes the Weller is better but only for the negative side of 26650 cells. It is plan B as spot welding is the better way but if not happening the Weller will get the job done.
IMG_0606.JPG
IMG_0606.JPG (5.03 MiB) Viewed 439 times
IMG_0608.JPG
IMG_0608.JPG (4.84 MiB) Viewed 439 times
I plan on spot welding all the other negative side of 26650 cells. If possible. I still have to set up a spot welder. Hopefully it can work. I will have a lot of cell banks with the positive side soldered and the negative side spot welded hopefully.

I watched a video and said the positive side has those spaces for venting heat. They are designed to dissipate heat. It is not just the smaller surface area that makes solder stick better. It is also in the design of a top battery terminal that soldering to it will NOT heat up the cell as much as soldering to the bottom (negative). Therefore the surface area you are soldering to will naturally be hotter. Yea. I am really smart. :lol: But only from watching you tube videos and posting here. And of course experimenting.

Only thru intensive study can one increase intelligence. If you do not put the time in mastering something your knowledge on the subject will be compromised. Like watching a you tube video. If you skip half of it then may only be 50% effective or could miss the entire point. Opinions are like A _ _ :lol: You know where that's going :lol: What I meant is it is the information an opinion is based on that determines its significance.

OK I am drinking beers. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Please comet. If you are only reading part of this and skipping my main points then don't. I am learning as I go and a lot of the frustration I see here with me being stubborn and all is people do not read my entire post and skip around and not watch the videos I post.

I am an e bike scientist. I want to succeed. I have many projects and a lot going on right now. Many builds and upgrades and re builds.

I got these PESKY GAS things rolling around. A go cart and two mini bukes. Loud , obnoxious and stupid. Nobody cares here. In NY they would disappear. I know they are having fun and hope they never get pulled over. That way I get a chance to smoke them with the 3 Kilowatt Brushless motor.

I wonder what would happen with a 2 kilowatt Stryker motor on the front of the Haro with the 3 kilowatt motor on the back. The Diamondback Outlook has dual motors one throttle. So does the Currie. If the rear motor is a lot stronger then a front motor then there is no longer the spin out danger so both systems should complement each other. Work together.

Most of my e bikes are dual motors now. Only the 20" Turbo and 1,800W brushless motor are single and both strong. The 20" 800 watt motor on the 20" Turbo will compete with the Dual Bafangs and e bikeling 36V motors.

The 26" dual suspension will go up against the Currie e zip Trailz.

48V 1,000W 26" hub motor vs 1,000W brush Unite chain drive. Both bikes have Bafangs on the front. The dual suspension with the hub motor has separate throttles and batteries. The Currie same pack and throttle.

Looking at LIFEPO4 53V for 26" hub and 10S pack for front Bafang.

The Currie 15S - LTOs 1,000W radical brush chain rear and Bafand front.




download.png
download.png (229.34 KiB) Viewed 429 times

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5106
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jul 28 2021 6:35pm

You still seem to be melting and dripping solder onto the cells.
Your tips look burnt and bare respectively.
Tips should always be coated (tinned) with a nice layer of solder.
Burnt tip will not "tin" without sanding or filing "burnt" away.
Clean hot Weller tip on moist sponge or rag, flux, coat with solder.

More difficult to desolder because you used too hot temperature soldering, evaporating lead, creating a hard tin rich alloy, higher melting point!
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11953
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Jul 29 2021 12:11am

What do you think about something like this, another item latecurtis can buy and wait for it to arrive in the mail.
https://www.amazon.com/Radio-Shack-Tinn ... 54&sr=8-42

https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-SAC ... B002V7QDZQ
DrkAngel wrote:
Jul 28 2021 6:35pm
You still seem to be melting and dripping solder onto the cells.
Your tips look burnt and bare respectively.
Tips should always be coated (tinned) with a nice layer of solder.
Burnt tip will not "tin" without sanding or filing "burnt" away.
Clean hot Weller tip on moist sponge or rag, flux, coat with solder.

More difficult to desolder because you used too hot temperature soldering, evaporating lead, creating a hard tin rich alloy, higher melting point!

User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 29 2021 6:09am

What do you think about something like this, another item latecurtis can buy and wait for it to arrive in the mail.
Yes.

However the one was unleaded. The second one. Not the radio shack one.

DA recommended leaded base solder and flux. I ordered that.

Perhaps DA knows which one I should order.

I am about to sleep.

I hauled up the 26" dual suspension. I need to install the Greentime controller.

That is what I am working on now.

I have those two Bafang motors in the van. Thinking about another build as they are just getting banged around moving bikes around. I need them on a bike.

I really like the dual Bafang motors on the Diamondback Outlook. I am thinking the Silver Specialized maybe. I have a lot of e bike projects.

I still want 15S LTO for the Currie and a 9S LTO pack for 24V experiments like those 775 and 895 and 997 motors. Popular for robots but 4 or 6 of them can be 1,000 to 2,000W plus.

Also RC motors with low KV can be e bike motors. Not sure about the blue Diamondback Viper. Thinking about dual 36V 1,000 watt brush motors also for 40 mph. I have several brush controllers with the speed control knob rated at 2 kilowatts I think.

I have a lot of stuff. Drawers full of controllers and that 750W gear reduction motor is just sitting around. I need a motor sprocket for that. The Haro V3. Need a motor for Easy Street the Giant Cypress hybrid. I need to finish the Giant Roam.

HELL I need a beer. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for posting guys.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5106
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jul 29 2021 7:18am

The angled cutting tip is insufficient for the soldering you are attempting! (it is for cutting plastics etc)

"Balls of solder" are a sure indication of poor soldering! All your videos show you dripping low temperature solder onto cold metal! I am shocked you ever get anything to bond.


Clean your tips!

"Heavy tip", 370℃, flux, "load" tip with solder, pause for temperature recovery, contact to solder point, add solder to contact point. You want a low puddle of solder, (like you have seen in every soldering video), not your mangled nipple looking perversions! (Henceforth referred to as the LCMN soldering method)
Last edited by DrkAngel on Jul 29 2021 9:55am, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 29 2021 9:51am

Clean your tips!

"Heavy tip", 370℃, flux, "load" tip with solder, pause for temperature recovery, contact to solder point, add solder to contact point. You want a low puddle of solder, (like you have seen in every soldering video), not your mangled nipple looking perversions! (Henceforth referred to as the LCMN soldering method)
Thanks. Soldering is not straightforward. It takes a level of skill. Like a trade. It is rather complicated. Maybe not to you though.

I would love to sit down and get a lesson. Teaching is priceless. Learning is awesome. However the correct tool for the job is even more valuable. No matter how good you can solder a spot welder just looks better. It is faster. And don't heat the cell as much as it happens really fast. From what I see. I will solder but only if that is the only logical choice.

I only plan on soldering when there is no other alternative. I really love those solderless connecters DA. The ones you posted. Likewise I love the Greaentime controllers Markz posted, They are both reliable and get the job done.

I am drunk. I tested my impact resistant battery box as my fat ass could not fit thru the door to get the camera to video the self learning wires I hooked up. I had the front end tied and back wheel spinning with the pedal sprocket proped up on a 5 gallon bucket upside down and it all fell down. :lol: Battery came unhooked. I got the 26" 1,000W hub motor spinning first try with Greentime.

I saw bad reviews but so far every Greentime controller I hooked up works.

I ended up drinking more and thanks to the solderless connecters DA posted got the 3 wire throttle hooked up and made a video.

To me it is a celebration as my first sensor-less controller hook up. I am hoping is will perform better than the stock controller. I did notice that I still had to press down the throttle a bit before the motor kicked in ? Like the other throttle. It seems to have more power though. I think 26 mph was top speed with the 13S battery before. Not sure. I need to test it. I remember back when I first got it , it was real fast. I was running LiPo though.

The 13S power modules will be here soon. Battery hookup ships quick. One way or the other I will make that 26" hub motor fly again. SUNDER sent it about 7 years ago. I never rode it a lot. The rim was cracked and got a bike shop to re lace it to a new rim.

I wish SUNDER would post. I miss him. He is also my friend here on ES.

I plan on a test ride it tomorrow,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUgcxbUjkDE

Thanks.

LC. out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Jul 29 2021 10:22am, edited 3 times in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5106
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jul 29 2021 10:07am

DrkAngel wrote:
Jul 29 2021 7:18am
The angled cutting tip is insufficient for the soldering you are attempting! (it is for cutting plastics etc)

"Balls of solder" are a sure indication of poor soldering! All your videos show you dripping low temperature solder onto cold metal! I am shocked you ever get anything to bond.


Clean your tips!

"Heavy tip", 370℃, flux, "load" tip with solder, pause for temperature recovery, contact to solder point, add solder to contact point. You want a low puddle of solder, (like you have seen in every soldering video), not your mangled nipple looking perversions! (Henceforth referred to as the LCMN soldering method)
latecurtis wrote:
Jul 29 2021 9:51am
Thanks. Soldering is not straightforward. It takes a level of skill. Like a trade. It is rather complicated. Maybe not to you though.
It is straightforward and simple ... if, you would even try the simplest step by step instructions I have provided ... multiple times!
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 29 2021 10:44am

Quick question before I crash.
Really tired.

DA.

Do you think soldering is better than spot welding???

I know you claim to have the perfect method to solder but still see no video. I suck at soldering but still post a youtube video when I try. ?????

I have a lot of 18650 cells. and some 26650 cells and want more to build packs.

I would like to spot weld. I only started soldering again as I already soldered a bunch or 26650s and 18650s. It is difficult to de solder and set up a spot weld with solder on the cell.

I would really like to learn more about spot welding and building professional packs. I am sure if I tear apart any packs I ordered on e bay or Amazon I will see spot welds. Not solder joints.

Please explain DA. I have a spot welder at the post office and will be picking it up hopefully today.

Goodnight or good morning. I am about to enter Poppa Bear Sleep Mode. :lol:

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11953
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Jul 29 2021 1:56pm

Proper soldering tip care is important, though I never really paid attention to that because I just solder wires together and literally scrape the solder off the holder base, but need a clean tip for XT90 connectors.

Anyway I was joking about buying the cleaner and waiting, and I just picked random tip cleaners, tinners.
I guess Walmarts are in small towns that wouldnt have a store catering to businesses that also sell to the public to pick up solder, wicks, irons, wire unless you can find a place nearby. I mean if I lived in a small town say 50km out of the metro, I'd either wait until I need to hit the big city and get what I need or hopefully they can mail

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5106
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jul 29 2021 5:14pm

I would say that I only have basic soldering skills ... plus a lot of experience.
You seem to be stubbornly ignorant about the most basic fundamentals, refusing to even consider anyone's suggestions. You could have saved yourself years of frustration, anger and failures by listening and applying our advice but you prefer to be belligerently oblivious!

Spot welding!, I am not an expert on that either, but if I was, I'm sure you would ignore my advice, so what would be the point?
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 29 2021 8:14pm

he angled cutting tip is insufficient for the soldering you are attempting! (it is for cutting plastics etc)
That was the largest tip that came in the package of tips for the smaller iron.

The Weller tip is too large for the positive tops of the cells. It is good for the bottoms though. Tinning the tip means covering it with solder right ????

As far as flux goes it should be at the post office. I got a little that came with that cheap Harbor freight gun but do not trust it. So far from my experience flux just makes a mess and solder don't stick to it.

Since you probably need flux to tin a tip or cover it with solder it has not been something I could do. I will try it when I get the flux and solder I ordered DA posted a link to. Should be there. I will check my e mail and watch a few you tube videos later on proper tip care.

I am working on the battery rack on the 26" dual suspension tonight. Since it needs the 10S pack for the Bafang and 13S for the rear hub I will want them side by side for a cleaner look. Hopefully tomorrow for the test run. It seems like the hub is getting more power but wont know for sure until I go up a hill or test it out on the flat. Top speed should be 28 to 30 mph.

I did not get an e mail from Battery hookup on those Power modules. hopefully they will send it by tomorrow. I will need a 100 amp BMS.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11953
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Jul 29 2021 10:07pm

Did you pick up the tab welder?

Blacklite   10 W

10 W
Posts: 86
Joined: Jan 30 2019 2:42am
Location: Brisbane

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Blacklite » Jul 29 2021 10:33pm

latecurtis wrote:
Jul 29 2021 8:14pm
Since you probably need flux to tin a tip or cover it with solder it has not been something I could do. I will try it when I get the flux and solder I ordered DA posted a link to.
Another excuse to not even try a 10 second task.

1) heat up the Weller iron
2) wipe tip with a damp rag
3) apply some of the flux cored 60/40 tin/lead solder you have to the tip until it is lightly coated.
4) if you have put too much solder on the top wipe on the rag again gently.

Your tip is now tinned and ready to solder with. Takes 10 seconds.

User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 30 2021 2:35pm

Did you pick up the tab welder?
1) heat up the Weller iron
2) wipe tip with a damp rag
3) apply some of the flux cored 60/40 tin/lead solder you have to the tip until it is lightly coated.
4) if you have put too much solder on the top wipe on the rag again gently.
I have been sleeping until 6 and 7 PM but went to sleep earlier so am up now. I will be picking up the spot welder today and think the solder and flux should be there as well.

I got the battery rack done on the 26" dual suspension yesterday also. That should be ready for a test run.

I might post a video later.

Thanks.

LC. out.

6:58 PM.

I got the solder but no flux !!!!!!
apT86BZGQL6ykUeeDtSxnQ.png
apT86BZGQL6ykUeeDtSxnQ.png (22.13 KiB) Viewed 298 times

I guess I have to wait on tinning the irons. :roll:

Also I don't like the spot welder.

I think it might blow up or start a fire. Also doubt two - 22 Ah SLAs will power it. I will need a LiPo battery.

I doubt I will ever use it. They made a list of possible things that can go wrong and an explosion is on the list. :( :(

I know DA could hook it up. I just do not want an explosion / Fire.

The big problem I see is it needs a large capacitor. I did go to college for electrical technology and also know they use capacters in high end car audio applications.

I think with proper modifications the little spot welder could work quite well. A capacitor stores a voltage and can put out the correct voltage and amps when needed. Somebody like DA. could solder a capacitor to it that would give the thing exactly what it needs. Not enough current or too much current would not happen. The two 22 Ah SLAs would charge the capacitor and the capacitor would run the spot welder. I would just need a meter that tells me when the capacitor is at full charge which should only take 5 to 10 seconds and then do the spot weld.

If DA would agree to do this I would buy a second spot welder and two capacitors so DA would have his own little spot welder. I know DA likes to solder but we all have to admit a cool little mini spot welder is a lot more simple once it is up and running properly. It is a lot faster and less complicated than soldering.

I am asking DA if he wants to do this as I have known DA the longest and he is closer than anyone else. Also has a masters in electrical technology. I am an under graduate. I could ship it to his computer store. Then if he gets it working I will order a second spot welder from the same seller and the right capacitor and ship that to DA.

I will take a picture of the paper the spot welder came with.

The seller wrote me about this as well. There seems to be a lot of issues setting it up but once it is set up then it is way easier and better than soldering packs.

If DA. knows what size capacitor is required I will order it along with any resisters or other components needed. I knew it was a gamble before I ordered it. However I am not the first person who thought about Modifying it or upgrading it. There are a lot of you tube videos on it. I have not watched them all yet but will.

If not it will sit around unless someone else wants to mess with it. DA has first bids. If he don't want to then it will sit around unless someone else that has been posting here awhile wants to give it a try. I am not in any big rush either. I will be getting the Power modules and am thinking about working on a 15S - LTO pack for the Currie. The 26650 cells can wait.

Therefore if someone wants to build a pack with this spot welder after modifying it they can. I would rather have a spot welder that is broke in and test proven than something brand new I know nothing about.

DA. Please let me know. With your knowledge I think it has a shot at being a decent little tool with the proper modifications , but not the way it is now.

Thanks.

LC. out
Attachments
IMG_0613.JPG
IMG_0613.JPG (5.32 MiB) Viewed 295 times
IMG_0614.JPG
IMG_0614.JPG (5.12 MiB) Viewed 295 times
IMG_0615.JPG
IMG_0615.JPG (4.62 MiB) Viewed 295 times
IMG_0619.JPG
IMG_0619.JPG (4.6 MiB) Viewed 293 times
IMG_0621.JPG
IMG_0621.JPG (4.95 MiB) Viewed 289 times
IMG_0620.JPG
IMG_0620.JPG (3.67 MiB) Viewed 289 times
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

Blacklite   10 W

10 W
Posts: 86
Joined: Jan 30 2019 2:42am
Location: Brisbane

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Blacklite » Jul 30 2021 9:26pm

latecurtis wrote:
Jul 30 2021 2:35pm

I got the solder but no flux !!!!!!

I guess I have to wait on tinning the irons. :roll:
Are you being deliberately obtuse? Why do you need flux to tin the iron when you have solder that has the flux already inside it - rosin-core solder means there is flux inside the solder! Did you even take the 10 seconds to try my instructions?

User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 30 2021 11:18pm

re you being deliberately obtuse? Why do you need flux to tin the iron when you have solder that has the flux already inside it - rosin-core solder means there is flux inside the solder! Did you even take the 10 seconds to try my instructions?
Top
No. I was not home. I just got back. I was working on the 26" dual suspension. I had to hook up the front brake lever and adjust the handle bars and throttles. I left about 9 PM and just got back.

There is not much difference in power. Mable a little not sure. Top speed was only a little over 23 mph but went 22 mph up a hill.
Not sure but think it might be the 13S - 1,200 watt battery. It just don't put out what the LiPos did back in NY when I rode that bike.

When I ran the LiPos it seemed to go faster. It could also be a delay in the GPS speedometer. The real test will be out in the country. That 4 - 1/2 mile stretch is perfect for that as in the daytime I can see far enough ahead to avoid pot holes and there are like three hills to go up.

I am more interested in modifying the spot welder than soldering right now. I also have the power modules from battery hookup to deal with. They should be here in a few days. I need a BMS for those.


Sorry about that. I just ate some fries and wings. My diet went down the tubes. I had a Calzone earlier at an Italian restaurant. That is when I got back from the post office. Now I stopped at wing stop on the way back from Wall-Mart. I did do some video. I know it is not the throttle now or the controller as this is a Greentime controller with a 3 wire throttle. The other was the stock controller and 4 wire throttle.

There is some delay when engaging the throttle but that is normal as it is in sensor less mode. I start out with the front Bafang and when I choose to press the throttle for the rear motor. On the positive side it is a decent cargo bike. As long as it passes the test on that 4 - 1/2 mile stretch and don't have too much trouble up those hills it will be just fine.

The videos did not come out good enough to post. I did not even bother to upload them to you tube. It was dark and could not see with the sun glasses on so lowered them hoping the camera would see the speedometer but it did not. I will need to hook up the power meter and Cannon pocket camera in front of the meter and speedometer so I can see how much power the battery is putting out and see the speed at the same time.

It cant be raining out but no direct sunlight either as you can not even see the power meter in bright sunlight.

I will get the solder thing right. Just not right now. I will probably end up soldering the 18650 packs. I just thought maybe DA or someone would like a free spot welder. They are 24 bucks. A simple mod will probably make it reliable for thousands of spot welds. I still have not watched the you tube videos on all the mods.

However I do know something about electricity. I know that the larger square units than plug into AC have an AC to DC converter built in. They also must have large capacitors to provide the instant DC current required. The big difference in these small mini spot welders is the user must supply it with the exact current it needs by selecting a battery. it not only puts a strain on any battery especially lead acid but if the output voltage and current is not exactly right it either wont weld or a MOSFET blows up.

It even states in the paper that came with it that if a MOS tube blows up it can be replaced and the unit will work again.
IMG_0622.JPG
IMG_0622.JPG (4.99 MiB) Viewed 277 times
IMG_0623.JPG
IMG_0623.JPG (5.15 MiB) Viewed 277 times
Basically it is a controller not a spot welder. A spot welder will have a power supply suited perfectly for the controller board. That is why it is only $24 bucks.

I don't know how much capacitors are and not sure if I will need resisters but I know I am not the guy to do a MOD like that, It will require much more knowledge and experience as well as soldering skills on an advanced level as will be soldering small electrical components. I am sure DA could do it with his eyes closed and perhaps others who post here. So basically if I can get the right components to modify two of these units less than 100 bucks it will be worthwhile.

I will ship two controller units , capacitors and any other components needed and whoever does the mods keeps one unit and ships me back the other unit. DA has first bids and if he don't want to then whoever wants to please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Jul 31 2021 12:31am, edited 2 times in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11953
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Jul 31 2021 12:11am

How are you going to modify that spot welder?
Your just going to break it.

User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 31 2021 12:22am

How are you going to modify that spot welder?
Your just going to break it.
NO.

Hopefully someone who knows what they are doing can MOD it.

First I need to watch a lot of you tube videos on what mods they are actually doing. They might be upgrading the MOS tubes so they won't blow in the first place.

We will see. I just want to spot weld cells instead of soldering as it seems like it is better for the batteries and much easier and simple to do. Yes it is complicated to set up right and that seems to be where people fail. However once it is working I hear that these units last a long time.

I think I have blown MOS tubes or something like that before in those cheap 10 or 15 buck Brush 2,000 watt controllers (pic below) with the speed control knob on the end. I remember hooking up at least two back in NY and right after they turned on they failed. I had others that worked for years. Cheap defective Chinese components. So I think upgrades can and should be done on the mini spot welder controller.
IMG_0625.JPG
IMG_0625.JPG (4.75 MiB) Viewed 270 times
I just need to check out all the you tube videos on the MODS. There are a few of them. People are buying them and doing MODs and then doing thousands of spot welds.

I know DA could accomplish it but WILL HE ?????

IF not then who will ??????? I will need to find out what components can be upgraded and how much it will cost. Then find someone that would like a new spot welder and pack everything up and ship it to them.

Hopefully I will hear from DA by tomorrow.

Something to think about.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

Blacklite   10 W

10 W
Posts: 86
Joined: Jan 30 2019 2:42am
Location: Brisbane

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Blacklite » Jul 31 2021 3:11am

Anybody who talks about “MOS tubes” is just showing their ignorance of anything to do with electronics.

User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 31 2021 3:20am

Anybody who talks about “MOS tubes” is just showing their ignorance of anything to do with electronics.
That would be the seller. It was on the paper that came with it.

I did not watch that video until just now but was my first guess. Add a capacitor. It just makes sense. As far as the other solder he added It will take some solder skill. I am not asking anyone to do it for free. Whoever does the job will get a spot welder for doing it. They are 24 bucks and doubt that the capacitor will be that much. the battery is another story though.

Not sure if SLAs could work with the capacitor. I need to watch a few more videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5khY6d3qds&t=32s

Well there is the video.

Looks pretty simple.

I just do not want to screw it up. It requires soldering skill I do not have.

DA could probably MOD it in 15 minutes. So could you probably. I will need the LiPo battery though.

There are a lot more videos on these. I will watch more.

Waiting a day or so to hear from DA. I did not get the nickel strip yet. I ordered it so will be a few days at least.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Jul 31 2021 3:32am, edited 2 times in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

Blacklite   10 W

10 W
Posts: 86
Joined: Jan 30 2019 2:42am
Location: Brisbane

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Blacklite » Jul 31 2021 3:29am

latecurtis wrote:
Jul 31 2021 3:20am

That would be the seller. It was on the paper that came with it.
latecurtis wrote: I think I have blown MOS tubes or something like that before
latecurtis wrote: They might be upgrading the MOS tubes so they won't blow in the first place.

User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 31 2021 3:38am

I never heard of MOS tubes until I seen it on that paper. I heard of mosfets I think.

What is your point. That you are smarter than me ?????

You got mad because I did not tin the tip yet. Well the solder roll still has plastic on it. I was doing other things today. That dont mean I am never going to tin the tip.

It was Tomjasz idea to spot weld in the first place but he got mad because I ordered a 24 buck welder. It was like several days after I PMd him saying I would accept the welder. He dont post all the time so how was I supposed to know when or if he was posting again.
by tomjasz » Jul 25 2021 7:14pm

“ How about the spot welder you were going to donate ?????”

You are impatient. You jumped the gin before I could respond. And as usual you try to reinvent the wheel. A modicum of patience and I could have helped. But as is typical you chose to go off half cocked. And with that I give up. Adios.
PM.png
PM.png (12.56 KiB) Viewed 227 times
order date.png
order date.png (26.19 KiB) Viewed 227 times
I waited 8 days after the PM he never bothered to read.

This post is supposed to be about building e bikes and e bike batteries I thought. Not about making me feel like an idiot. I am perfectly capable of doing that myself thank you.

There I googled it. It is just another name for a mosfet I think.
lBLxriheTSG7bcdvDvFKoQ.png
lBLxriheTSG7bcdvDvFKoQ.png (64.31 KiB) Viewed 240 times
If I knew it all I would not need to post here.

I just want a working spot welder that is not going to blow up or catch on fire.

If it don't happen I will just solder the DAMM 26650 cells.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

Ianhill   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2533
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Ianhill » Jul 31 2021 10:01am

Some people think everyone is below them and speak to them like they treat an animal its appalling when you dont know that person from adam and what their life stuggles maybe.
Best way to learn is to read and perform what you have read and learnt in an actual demo dont run before you can walk or rush be methodical when u can college done me wonders talking as a group is great but i find face to face is on another world to forum chat most people act alot different on hear keyboard warrior rambos that in realife piss they knickers in seconds maybe video group talk is a better option for us folk.
One thing we all deal with is waste i started off one ride that worked great i was lucky and found a good combination, i then got greedy started to compress and push the power of my builds and ended uo with lots of stuff around me and its not cheap so i find myself trying to use it in builds and im not getting much luck point being if you not enjoying it no more like myself stop tske a break there's more to life enjoy the mountains/beach what ever the world has to offer.

Sometimes our water of judgment becomes clouded from continuous dilution of thought process, at that point stop allow your mind to catch up its easy to carry on and end up in a breakdown i know all to well, keep basic process going that allow your life stabikty work commitments etc and take the rest of the time to clesr and rest the mind, i know the world is im a difficult position but sometimes that has to be ignored theres to many fights and to take notice of them all brings the mind down i feel sorry for the generations of the future, i know theres little i can do for the wrecking ball is human shapped and hell bent on destruction.

User avatar
latecurtis   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4039
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Aug 01 2021 5:53am

Thanks for posting Ianhill.

Welcome to As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. This is my ES post. I build e bikes. I have 5 running and at least 3 or 4 future builds pending including an electric motorcycle with an FX prototype 75 -5 motor. With a 28 kilowatt controller. On the bucket list now but top of it. :lol:

The Weller works. Not sure why DA said I was melting all the solder at too high a temperature and the Weller has the magic temp. ? I have to feed the solder way faster as is thinner and if I don't will just evaporate. The Weller is way hotter than the 60 watt irons. However the solder DA. recommended sticks way better than the cheap Wall Mart junk even though the Wall Mart solder says it has lead in it. It don't have enough. Lead content plays a big part in sticking.

The truth is a 60 watt iron can not solder the negative side of a 26650 cell and stick properly. Perfect for the top though as the Weller has a larger tip. Very hard to do. That is debatable but none of the top positive solder joints I did with a 60 watt iron failed and most of the the bottoms easily peel off. I was right just like I said when everyone started talking down to me. The Weller works as it gets hotter than the 60 watt iron and actually melts the solder faster so wont heat up the cell as much to stick. Yes Blacklight and DA was right about tinning the tip.

I could not concentrate on soldering CORRECTLY and try and shoot a video to prove myself. So I concentrated on soldering and not a you tube video.

I can honestly say the time soldering was way shorter and the solder was hot enough to actually stick. I can not say that about the 60 watt iron for the negative bottoms. I will use the Weller on the bottom of 18650 cells also but never the tops. The angle tip DA don't like works perfect for the top positive of cells. Just the right size.

I did not use a damp cloth. I used the wire brush on the drill to clean the tip from the dark junk that built up on it. Carbon or whatever. I am just not wasting any more time shooting videos building the LIFEPO4 packs. I am just building them. frock the spot welder. It was an attempt to sidetrack me and then laugh at me and put me down because I am scared of electricity.

Everybody is scared of something. So the ploy FAILED !!!!!!!!! DA , MARKZ and Blacklight were right and soldering actually works better than spot welding. Here are the pictures. I am not posting any more until the packs are built.

Thanks. LC. out.

AUGEST first 2021. 8:03 AM.
Perfect for the top though as the Weller has a larger tip. Very hard to do. That is debatable but none of the top positive solder joints
Ok I did see the solder NOT sticking to the 60 watt iron tip. Not possible to tin. DA was right about the magic temperature. I could not de solder the 26650 cells with a 60 watt iron. Iip might be hotter but not larger. Not only could I de solder with the Weller but easily re soldered a wire no problem at all.

Thanks DA, Markz and Backlight for the great advice. Spot welders are garbage and a waste of your time and money. Wish I did not listen to _ :lol: :lol:

Bottom pic shows why I had to DE SOLDER. Then re solder the single wire. I need to hook each wire up to a single wire on each side of the 1S - 5P battery bank. All the other pics with the single wire were de soldered then re soldered for a single wire for 60 amp. Not 20 amp or 10 amp like bottom pic. It was a mistake Blacklight pointed out I rectified. Now you all know why I got sucked into the spot weld tabs. Quicker but not worth the trouble unless you get one professionally built and tested. Then way better and faster.

Thanks.

LC. out.

9:02 AM.

Yea. However there is still evidence to support Tomaasz claims spot welders can work. But unless you have a next door neighbor like the guy in this video it is not happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw1Nhba-bbA

i watched several the same upgrades. Cheap and quick. Tomasjz is right that spot welders are better but only for folks capable of doing the proper modifications or spending double or triple what the Weller iron costs.

This video shows how a cheap MOD can work and make a cheap spot welder work. Not that anybody cares. It is more fun making me look stupid. The facts are I am not stupid as will seek out the truth and shoot videos and pictures to prove it..

I do not lie. If the thing I built only does 23 mph and not 30 like it should I will get to the bottom of it and fix it. I order lots of stuff and spend tons of money. I will not lie. I will prove my points and admit when someone is right. or I am wrong.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Attachments
IMG_0626.JPG
IMG_0626.JPG (4.67 MiB) Viewed 165 times
IMG_0628.JPG
IMG_0628.JPG (5.7 MiB) Viewed 165 times
IMG_0631.JPG
IMG_0631.JPG (5.23 MiB) Viewed 142 times
IMG_0632.JPG
IMG_0632.JPG (4.58 MiB) Viewed 142 times
IMG_0633.JPG
IMG_0633.JPG (4.48 MiB) Viewed 142 times
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

Post Reply