new eZip motor

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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 26 2022 7:38pm

Thanks.

I just want to keep living the dream. Not turn it into a nightmare.

LC. out
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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nicobie   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by nicobie » Jan 26 2022 8:08pm

kuz wrote:
Jan 26 2022 7:32pm

Don't despair, LC. Keep the lid on though.
^x2^ :thumb:
Ask for it by name.

my eTownie build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=23701
Magazine article https://www.electricbike.com/nicks-etownie/

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Ianhill   100 MW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Ianhill » Jan 27 2022 11:07am

I see it as thats what we're about helping in all ways not just sparks, some mistake kindness for weakness but they learn people are not mugs to be fooled with theres alot of boiling water hidden behind a fragile china exterior, brake it get burned stay close theres all the warmth needed theres a fine line between love and hate dont let projects consume that love into hate.

Lifepo4, lfp what ever got no place on a small ride really its heavyier and less discharge, smaller the ride is better the battery needs to be packaged as theres less space.

Few years back i done a 50mph stand up scooter on the cheap total cost was £350 all in never do that these days, but even usimg the hobbyking multistar lipos that had decent wh weight/litre i couldn't get more than 16 miles at full speed with the total usable 800wh of the pack.

Id consider using rc lipo for getting the job done and easy to replace people then step up from there to selfmade packs once they get a grip of the basics from them or jump to a large nmc prismatic if ride space permits, but spot weldimg a cylindrical pack is a good skill for anyone to learn but theres fundimantal basics that this forum has on dispkay to be learnt if you want a successful shot at making a longterm runner.
Infinite hrspwrs.

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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 27 2022 12:40pm

I called several e bike battery rebuilding companies across the country and none were familiar with 26650 - LIFEPO4 cells.

I also did extensive research on testing capacity and the law of energy conservation. You will not get more energy out of a system than what you put in.

I will get to the bottom of the big mystery of why my new 26650 cells are not even close to measured capacity. I think DA. said something about discharge testing. I know my 6S - LiPo chargers will do discharge.

My point is you can use a formula to determine capacity by factoring in the time and rate of discharge and voltage.

Likewise charging a battery should also indicate the capacity. The 12S - LIFEPo4 packs I built are about 25% according to the meter and less than 30 minutes at 10 amps - 43.6V will reach a full state of charge and standing voltage will be 96 to 99%. Two out of 12 are 96% and the rest 98 or 99%.

What I did not do was actually write down the voltage of each cell bank. I was looking at the %. In the future I will have two power meters as well as two multi-meters. The power meters display peak current , power and voltage. That plus timing the charge cycle and measuring each cell bank should indicate capacity.

One of the people I spoke to said that shelf life of 18650 - Lion is about 5 years before significant capacity loss. However the guy has no information on 26650 - LIFEPO4. They are not mainstream.

I stated that I did not care because I can not change it but the topic keeps coming up over and over and has me curious. I think it is a combination of several different factors. My soldering being one factor however do not know if that will decrease the capacity of all 60 cells or 12 different cell banks. I think shelf life may play a major role.

Poor solder connections would explain the voltage SAG though. 40V no load and 34V with a 1.200W load according to the power meter. I am not sure that poor soldering joints is the reason for the low capacity though.

I should also write down each cycle and part charge cycle. The more cycles and the longer the batteries maintain their present state the more information I will have. How does shelf life effect charge cycles. How does excessive heat effect charge cycles and cold solder joints.

There are a lot of different factors to consider here. It is not simple or straightforward.

I will find out though. It is just a matter of time.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by tomjasz » Jan 27 2022 2:24pm

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 27 2022 12:40pm

I will get to the bottom of the big mystery of why my new 26650 cells are not even close to measured capacity.
It is not simple or straightforward.

I will find out though. It is just a matter of time.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Abuse building and poor soldering skills and build techniques when advised it would be problematic. Research or cherry-picking?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

calab   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 27 2022 7:35pm

One of these would be cool to build or buy a tad pole trike with 2 wheels in the front and one wheel in the back.
You could pick a lot of metal and bottles to cash in at the recycler it would supplement the monthly disability check if you want to keep active labor efforts and status under the table.

https://newatlas.com/bicycles/mastretta ... -tricycle/
trikes.jpeg
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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 27 2022 8:12pm

One of these would be cool to build or buy a tad pole trike with 2 wheels in the front and one wheel in the back.
You could pick a lot of metal and bottles to cash in at the recycler it would supplement the monthly disability check if you want to keep active labor efforts and status under the table.
I have not checked for the price of metal lately. I did back in 2019 and was really low. I do like the trikes but then takes up more space on the side of the road than a mountain bike or BMX bike.

I like the option of taking the sidewalk when there is a lot of cars. I like 20" e bikes as can put my feet flat on the ground if an emergency. All the e bikes I have flipped or tipped over since I was a kid were 26" or 700c. I always seem to land on my right shoulder and extensive rotator cuff damage.

I will need to take it easy. I have to start walking a lot more or wont be around much longer. Type 2 diabetes is killing me. I need to be like 190 or 180. NOT 230+ Pedaling is limited as cant bend my knee that much. Was supposed to have a total knee replacement in 2014. I can walk because I don't have to bend the knee very much. Deep snow hurts a lot though.

Was born with bi cuspis disease and ascending theoretic aortic aneurism + a leaky heart valve. Scared to death of surgery. Degenerative disk disease lower back. I am basically falling apart. On three blood pressure pills now.

I really do not need to be going 40 mph on an e bike but would still like to at least once. The FX motor is on my bucket list but will need a full suspension motor cycle frame for that and will need it street legal or a race track. I never rode on an off road dirt bike trail. It would probably not end well for me.

It is why I need a small compact car as can only ride e bikes when good weather and selected areas for safety.

I talked to a guy who has a business in Michigan for 15 years and builds and rebuilds e bike batteries but has very limited experience with LIFEPO4 and LTOs. He told me he only orders cells from three different vendors in the USA. He did not know if my soldering could cause the low capacity of the 26650 cells.

We talked about 1/2 hour this morning and about an hour earlier tonight. He would have talked longer but had to get back to work. I charged all the LIFEPO4 packs and the cells were 96 , 97 . 97 for the 3S - 5P. I could get them to 98 or 99 if I balanced charged with the LiPo charger.

The one 6S pack was 96, 97 . 95 , 98 , 92 , 97%

The other was 99 , 99 , 99 , 98 , 98 and 97%

That is about two weeks not running and with the active balancers hooked up. I could leave the active balancers unhooked. I want to run them a few more cycles and then let them sit for two weeks with the balancers unhooked and see which cell banks are low and measure that.

Like I said before IF take them apart and look for problems I would like to make sure I do not do more damage as they actually work now the way they are. They are just only good for < 10 miles. Maybe only 7 or 8 miles. I have a good feeling about the 25 Ah prismatic cells though but do not see them any more on Battery Hookups website.

Hopefully they will get more and I will be in a position to order them. My plan is a much more compact design for a cleaner more professional look. Perhaps they could fit in a factory triangle bag. I know some may find it hard to believe but I do want at least a couple respectable builds before I end up 6 feet in a hole because of my failing health.

Thanks for posting.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 27 2022 8:54pm

I really do hate repeating myself over and over and over, but,
Possible LiFePO₄ problems, from reported symptoms and construction details:
Low original capacity;
Heat damage from excessive-prolonged heat, excessive solder prolonging total heat;
Cold solder joints causing deep voltage sag (possible, even with , above, "excessive heat")
Low quality 16ga "speaker wire", causing deep voltage sag
Poor-inaccurate capacity "percentage" meter - still plenty of Ah left?
Excessive solder between cell and wire for poor conductivity
40\60! (not 60\40) solder for unknown conductivity

Test
Disconnect balance boards.
Use a B6 balance charger to run a full LiFe discharge\charge cycle. Note start and end voltages for each bank, Ah discharge and charge (not balance charge) Ah and charged voltages of each bank. (monitor bank voltages!)

Battery bargains
The really great bargains sell fast, you have to act fast, after carefully reading details of the descriptions, to get the good deals. By the time I received my 1st order of 6x 36V 14Ah (MJ1 cells) eBike batteries, @$60 each, they were already sold out. ($120 per kWh)
New 14s (51.1V) 4p (6Ah) LG HB2 120A continuous output modules - 6lb.
Got 6 @ $39.99 each ~ $130 per kWh, were sold out before 1st batch arrived.

Of course you will need to become better informed so that you can learn to respect LiCo rather than live in fear of it.

Simple to get a taste of 40mph, load up a pile of batteries, or cement blocks, for weight, and push off down a steep hill. Save you a whole lot of time, money and effort. ... and without the motor torque ... more likely to hold together.
Glad to see you moderated from your 50mph musings. (123 50mph mentions in this thread vs. 136 40mph mentions in this thread) + (numbers do not include 40 mph, 50 mph or any other variants)
Last edited by DrkAngel on Jan 28 2022 5:30am, edited 2 times in total.
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calab   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 27 2022 11:52pm

You must be kinda of short, 26" bicycles come in different heights, I like 19" size or xxl 20"+ but there are 17" which is a common size for 26" bicycles. The other great bonus for larger bicycle sizes is the larger triangle space for better battery placement and balance. If space is at a premium I would not get a folding bike to electrify. When I see the cool adults riding bmx bikes or adult bums riding bmx bikes I kind of giggle inside but I think chalo rode bmx bikes or still does.

I saw a cool trike made from a normal bicycle with one wheel up front and 2 wheels in the back. But this one would probably suit you good if you are smaller in stature, perhaps that size of small bike is to small for you but you get the idea.
trike.png
trike.png (223 KiB) Viewed 375 times

This one is cooler with 100 spoke wheels, you would be pimping
trike1.png
trike1.png (200.35 KiB) Viewed 375 times
I thought this one was less modified but it has the seat stays modified down to the rear axle tube.
trike2.png
trike2.png (547.22 KiB) Viewed 375 times



Its the crashes that are not spectacular that end up hurting the most but if you are in good health you recovery easy, you arent in good health still eating badly. Doctors are quick to do surgery, some docs are better then others, self knowledge is the key.

Stay strong scott curtis who is always late.


I like the option of taking the sidewalk when there is a lot of cars. I like 20" e bikes as can put my feet flat on the ground if an emergency. All the e bikes I have flipped or tipped over since I was a kid were 26" or 700c. I always seem to land on my right shoulder and extensive rotator cuff damage.

I will need to take it easy. I have to start walking a lot more or wont be around much longer. Type 2 diabetes is killing me. I need to be like 190 or 180. NOT 230+ Pedaling is limited as cant bend my knee that much. Was supposed to have a total knee replacement in 2014. I can walk because I don't have to bend the knee very much. Deep snow hurts a lot though.

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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 28 2022 12:21am

You must be kinda of short, 26" bicycles come in different heights, I like 19" size or xxl 20"+ but there are 17" which is a common size for 26" bicycles.
I am 5 feet 8"

That was tall about 50 to 75 years ago I think for a male but think average height now is 5 feet 9 inches according to google.
Use a B6 balance charger to run a full LiFe discharge\charge cycle. Note start and end voltages for each bank, Ah discharge and charge (not balance charge) Ah and charged voltages of each bank. (monitor bank voltages!)
Poor-inaccurate capacity "percentage" meter - still plenty of Ah left?
Note start and end voltages for each bank, Ah discharge and charge (not balance charge) Ah and charged voltages of each bank. (monitor bank voltages!)

Ok.

I read that carefully three times and thought about it. I do not have a B6 charger but a Tenergy 400W Mega charger Dan sent me.

It only displays the voltage of each cell bank when charging in balance mode and you said my 5 in 1 meter could be inaccurate.

That is ok though as I have the solution. I have that 6S balance extension wire which goes to that wood strip with 7 bolts. I can charge and discharge at 1S for each 5P cell bank. It will take longer but I have plenty of time on my hands.

I will be able to run a capacity test on both 6S packs and the 3S pack all 5P one cell bank at a time.

The guy I talked to on the phone today from Michigan said that I could check for cold solder joints by running a load and touching each joint. If the joint gets hot that is a sure sign it is a bad/cold solder joint. I think I might try that as well.

I know they make heat detectors which show a red color for hot spots. This is the kind of scientific stuff I really like. It may even be possible to replace up to three cell banks if I order one more box of 16 cells for $34.

It may or may not be worth doing depending on the results of the tests. I have three people now who think.
Low original capacity;
Could be a factor.

I tried to contact K2 energy to give them the numbers so I could find out when the cells were manufactured so I could know how long they were on a shelf. I was told that Lion - 18650 cells lose a significant amount of capacity after 5 years. However nobody really has any data regarding LIFEPO4 cells as a totally different chemistry.

I will start testing tomorrow one cell bank at a time. I will then start looking for that heat tester. Not sure what it is called. Infra red something ? I even heard that there is an app. for it on a smart phone. I have android. Not sure. I will order a tester however as can also test my wiring , controller and even motor for heat. It would be an awesome tool for my e bike work shop if I can get one at a reasonable price.

Thanks for posting.

LC. out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Jan 28 2022 12:48am, edited 2 times in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Chalo » Jan 28 2022 12:41am

calab wrote:
Jan 27 2022 11:52pm
When I see the cool adults riding bmx bikes or adult bums riding bmx bikes I kind of giggle inside but I think chalo rode bmx bikes or still does.
Never. But there are lots of BMX features that have made my cycling life better: BMX bars, BMX cranks, BMX pedals, 48 spoke wheel parts, etc. All these things have helped me cope with bikes that as designed aren't big or strong enough to work for me.

Here's my 29er e-bike, which is made roomier and more robust by means of various BMX bits.
IMG_20200925_011036884~2.jpg
IMG_20200925_011036884~2.jpg (1.16 MiB) Viewed 368 times
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 28 2022 12:58am

Here's my 29er e-bike, which is made roomier and more robust by means of various BMX bits.
Yea.

I like it.

The battery box on the rear rack looks a little like one of the plastic black boxes I used for one 6S - LIFEPO4 and the 20 Ah 13S pack out in the van. I got them at Wall-Mart.

Likewise the Currie and 26" dual suspension has black wire factory baskets I got at Wall-Mart which look like the front basket you got.

This is why I know for a fact I can do good clean builds in the future. Not just with Lion or LiPo but I can find a box like you have for 12 of those prismatic cells. They stack vertically and no wasted space like cylinder cell/cans. It would look just like that on a rear rack and I see how you mounted the controller.

That solves the problem for the Giant Roam with my e bikeling controllers. They are 22 amps each and should be small enough to work. I do NOT want a huge cumbersome battery box that hooks over the top bar for the 12S LIFEPO4s and 20S LTOs for the Giant Roam or the Haro V3. I want to do something very similar to your build.

It is ok for the Currie and 26" dual suspension as well as my 20" e bike but not for the Haro and Giant Roam. They need to be clean like your build.

The front basket I would use for my chain and padlock. That would give even weight distribution.

Thanks chalo for posting that.

You guys are awesome.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 28 2022 4:56am

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 28 2022 12:21am
DrkAngel wrote:
Jan 27 2022 8:54pm
Use a B6 balance charger to run a full LiFe discharge\charge cycle. Note start and end voltages for each bank, Ah discharge and charge (not balance charge) Ah and charged voltages of each bank. (monitor bank voltages!)
DrkAngel wrote:
Jan 27 2022 8:54pm
Poor-inaccurate capacity "percentage" meter - still plenty of Ah left?
DrkAngel wrote:
Jan 27 2022 8:54pm
Note start and end voltages for each bank, Ah discharge and charge (not balance charge) Ah and charged voltages of each bank. (monitor bank voltages!)

Ok.

I read that carefully three times and thought about it. I do not have a B6 charger but a Tenergy 400W Mega charger Dan sent me.

It only displays the voltage of each cell bank when charging in balance mode and you said my 5 in 1 meter could be inaccurate.

That is ok though as I have the solution. I have that 6S balance extension wire which goes to that wood strip with 7 bolts. I can charge and discharge at 1S for each 5P cell bank. It will take longer but I have plenty of time on my hands.

I will be able to run a capacity test on both 6S packs and the 3S pack all 5P one cell bank at a time.

The guy I talked to on the phone today from Michigan said that I could check for cold solder joints by running a load and touching each joint. If the joint gets hot that is a sure sign it is a bad/cold solder joint. I think I might try that as well.

I know they make heat detectors which show a red color for hot spots. This is the kind of scientific stuff I really like. It may even be possible to replace up to three cell banks if I order one more box of 16 cells for $34.

It may or may not be worth doing depending on the results of the tests. I have three people now who think.
DrkAngel wrote:
Jan 27 2022 8:54pm
Low original capacity;
Could be a factor.

I tried to contact K2 energy to give them the numbers so I could find out when the cells were manufactured so I could know how long they were on a shelf. I was told that Lion - 18650 cells lose a significant amount of capacity after 5 years. However nobody really has any data regarding LIFEPO4 cells as a totally different chemistry.

I will start testing tomorrow one cell bank at a time. I will then start looking for that heat tester. Not sure what it is called. Infra red something ? I even heard that there is an app. for it on a smart phone. I have android. Not sure. I will order a tester however as can also test my wiring , controller and even motor for heat. It would be an awesome tool for my e bike work shop if I can get one at a reasonable price.

Thanks for posting.

LC. out.
Stop trying to make a simple test so complex!

Most all B6 (Battery 6) balance chargers will display cell voltages during all charge or discharge modes, as long as the balance wires are connected. (A basic function! = prevents over charge or discharge of any cell)
You want to compare cell voltages during charge and discharge!
DrkAngel wrote:
Jan 27 2022 8:54pm
I really do hate repeating myself over and over and over, but,
Possible LiFePO₄ problems, from reported symptoms and construction details:
...
Cold solder joints causing deep voltage sag.
Low quality 16ga "speaker wire", causing deep voltage sag
If you want to check resistance ...
I will also repeat! = Last time!!!
DrkAngel wrote:"With battery under load (1C is optimal for testing IR),
Test voltage of clean contact metal of individual cells.
Compare to voltage from tops of solder gobs.
Compare to voltage at ends of speaker wire."
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - January 2022

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

calab   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 28 2022 12:37pm

Now that is super easy.
DrkAngel wrote:
Jan 28 2022 4:56am
Most all B6 (Battery 6) balance chargers will display cell voltages during all charge or discharge modes, as long as the balance wires are connected. (A basic function! = prevents over charge or discharge of any cell)
You want to compare cell voltages during charge and discharge!
DrkAngel wrote:
Jan 27 2022 8:54pm
I really do hate repeating myself over and over and over, but,
Possible LiFePO₄ problems, from reported symptoms and construction details:
...
Cold solder joints causing deep voltage sag.
Low quality 16ga "speaker wire", causing deep voltage sag
If you want to check resistance ...
I will also repeat! = Last time!!!
DrkAngel wrote:"With battery under load (1C is optimal for testing IR),
Test voltage of clean contact metal of individual cells.
Compare to voltage from tops of solder gobs.
Compare to voltage at ends of speaker wire."

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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 28 2022 2:06pm

OK.

Good.

I copied all those instructions and put it in a notepad file battpac test. That way I can not lose track of it.

I want to use my sunglass camera so I can record videos of the testing. Not sure how long the test will take so will do like 5 minute videos every 15 minutes or 1/2 hour. I want to be able to look back on the video.

Unfortunately I will not be able to solder anything here for awhile. It has been less than 20 degrees F and as low as -7 the last couple of weeks.

In the summer time with a 10.000 BTU AC in window #1 and a 20" box fan in window #2 and the kitchen window with a window fan blowing air out there is no problem.

The last time I soldered my wife got a head ache. It is a 400 square foot apartment and the little air purifier does help but she asked me not to solder here anymore. I got a head ache as well.

I can still do the capacity test though but am not taking the packs out of their boxes and testing the joints as I can not fix them right now. Hopefully in the future. I really am sick of Ohio. I would like to move back to NY but not where I was in the North east. I like the South West or North West area much better. The cost of living is much less and Adirondack Trailways bus is like $50 to go visit friends and relatives. Here It will cost $200.

I am about to balance charge first so all cells are as close as possible. The active balancers do not really balance that good. They are ok so that a cell does not go too low as to be damaged but not as good as a BMS.

When all the cells are as close as possible I will start the discharge cycle for measured capacity and record the data. Then charge mode (not balance) until fully charged and will record that as well.

I know everyone here recommends soldering wires together but in the case where someone needs a heavy duty wire for power or whatever and they do NOT own a soldering iron there is a way to splice two wires together.

I would not recommend it as a permanent solution though. That would make me a bad person as it is against the mainstream opinion here on ES but in a case of emergency where you need to get something running it should work at least until you can get solder and shrink wrap. I myself also use the same method but the way the guy did it in the video is even better. He uses longer strands of wire.

Note. He shows two examples of HOW NOT to splice wires then shows the proper method. My point is I like the proper method but then solder and shrink wrap for a perfect worry free connection. It should also work for those solderless connecters DA. recommended but need a large size for heavier gauge wire.

Here is the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHoyF4yKhjU&t=319s

Yea. It is way towards the end of the video where he gets it right. Another point I really like about the video is the tool he is using to strip the wire. I will need that. It is so much better than the cheap Wall-Mart wire strippers I have been using.

As I progress forwards in newer builds I will be dealing with < 10 gauge wire. 8 gauge and maybe even 6 gauge. I still need to check out silicone wire also. I recently heard about it but have not really checked it out.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 28 2022 6:53pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

OK. The 3S - 5P pack is the first test. It is just balancing now at 0 amps. I started at at 3A balance charge. Voltage reads 3.57 , 3.57 and 3.58. I can not get 3.60V without balance charging. It wont do it. Same goes for the 6S packs. I can NOT get 3.6V for each cell bank with the 43.6V dedicated 12S LIFE charger either.

As soon as it beeps all cells should be like 0.03V from each other. Before any cell banks can drop lower I will start the discharge cycle. Discharge for LIFEPO4 should be to 2.5V. I hope my charger will display each cell bank when discharging.

I will record videos of the cell voltages. This test is for the capacity of my 3S - 5P - pack.

I will be repeating the test for both 6S - 5P - packs after that.

OK. It just beeped. I will now attempt to start the discharge cycle. It is my first time ever doing it.

OK. I am not seeing an option for 2.5V. I had to set the charger for 3S and 6V @ 1amp. The balance wires are hooked up to monitor cell voltage. I am going to record my first video now to make sure it is set right.
Last edited by latecurtis on Jan 28 2022 7:01pm, edited 1 time in total.
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calab   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 28 2022 6:59pm

Probably just the accuracy of the measuring device, more so on cheap chargers and meters.

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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 28 2022 7:17pm

Yea.

Having a lot of technical issues. My sunglass camera wont work as the USB port on the laptop is not working. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

I recorded a couple minutes with my android camera but will have to upload to my e mail and then try and get it from there to the desktop.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 28 2022 7:23pm

Those cheap b6 type generic rc chargers will take forever to balance at the top end, and it takes forever more when the difference in voltages is greater but even the expensive satiator charger takes a bit of time at the top end, down to 1a or 0.5a not sure if its balance there or what.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 28 2022 8:06pm

IMG_20220128_195503118.jpg
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IMG_20220128_195512964.jpg (961.37 KiB) Viewed 280 times
OK.

That is the data so far. The sunglass camera will not record the screen on the charger. I had to use the my cell phone and send to my e mail and then copy to my desktop.

I am stopping at 2.5V That is 2.5 * 12 = 30V. I know the LVC will trip long before that due to SAG so see no sense at all going down to 2V per cell or 6V with this test.
Brand: K2
Model: LFP26650E
Capacity: 3800mah
Nominal Voltage: 3.2
Fully Charged Voltage: 3.65 (recommended), 4.1 (maximum)
Fully Discharged Voltage: 2.5 (recommended), 2.0 (maximum)
Continuous Discharge (A): 12
Pulse 30 Seconds Discharge (A): 28
Charge Current (A): 3.8
9:11 PM.

So far the 3S pack went from FULL 3.59V per cell to 3.28V and measured capacity so far is 2. 16 Ah. A long way to go for 19 Ah. I assume they went all the way down to 2.0V per cell.

I remember the 3S pack was the last one I built and used the Weller and soldering time was < 5 seconds I think. I posted the video somewhere.

Found it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moScWR4z420

That is the pack I am currently testing. 3S - 5P.

10:32 PM.

Maximum voltage is 4.1 and max minimum being 2.0 explains the 19 Ah rating. Looking at the charger right now and is 210 minutes and voltage is 3.27 each cell bank and Ah is 3.528. This is going to take a long time.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 28 2022 10:47pm

Its fun dealing with dinky little wimpy chargers, this brings me back to the lipo daze. That is what I love about the 8a satiator, it tells you how much you've dumped into the battery in total wh and total ah, what the heat is for the charger and battery plus whenI toggle through the viewings it gives me a little useless graph thats fun to look at, might be useful to others more initiated then humble me.
latecurtis wrote:
Jan 28 2022 8:06pm
This is going to take a long time.

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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 29 2022 12:07am

Yea.

Unfortunately I will not be able to do the capacity test with that charger.

It simply will not discharge all the way.
IMG_20220129_000127721.jpg
IMG_20220129_000127721.jpg (1.1 MiB) Viewed 237 times
I do not know if I can change that setting. It is really complicated. I can try tomorrow I guess. It is at 5 Ah now so guess I can just add up the AH every 299 minutes. :roll:

I will see tomorrow when I wake up. I am tired right now and need to sleep soon.

Thanks.

LC. out.
IMG_20220129_000139659.jpg
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"With battery under load (1C is optimal for testing IR),
Test voltage of clean contact metal of individual cells.
Compare to voltage from tops of solder gobs.
Compare to voltage at ends of speaker wire."
What about discharge though ? Capacity testing ? Can I do 5 amps discharge or higher than 1 amp ? That would solve my CAPA issue as should be able to discharge in less than 299 minutes and would be able to stop at 2.5V which is better for the cells.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 29 2022 6:59am

Under "program"(?) or "settings", adjust capacity to 20Ah or off, adjust "time(r)" to 20hr or off. - For 19Ah battery. Charger shut off at 5000mAh 299.52 minutes, so capacity, not time is limiting setting, but check both settings. Amp discharge setting is adjusted at discharge window (typically).

Your balance charger is designed to charge\discharge LiFe at standard-rated voltages, so let it do it's thing if you want to compare actual capacity to oem rated.

You still seem obsessed with LiFe charge and charged voltage.
They are not the same thing!
Higher voltage will charge faster and leave a higher surface voltage but does not add any appreciable capacity.

Image

Note that "usable" LiFe capacity is concentrated in a very tight voltage band.
This can make cheap capacity meters very inaccurate!

Also note that LiFe suffers, what I describe as something of a pressure membrane, that requires additional voltage (pressure) to charge and additional voltage drop under discharge.

Image

Of course, this was explained to you previously ... multiple times!
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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 29 2022 1:04pm

Under "program"(?) or "settings", adjust capacity to 20Ah or off, adjust "time(r)" to 20hr or off. - For 19Ah battery. Charger shut off at 5000mAh 299.52 minutes, so capacity, not time is limiting setting, but check both settings. Amp discharge setting is adjusted at discharge window (typically).
OK.

I figured it out and turned off both the timer and capacity limit. I also set discharge for 3 amps instead of 1 amp. When it reaches 2V it should turn off automatically and will just add the 5 amps from last night.
Your balance charger is designed to charge\discharge LiFe at standard-rated voltages, so let it do it's thing if you want to compare actual capacity to oem rated.
I will post the results when it is recharging back up.

I would like to finish the discharge cycle in about 2 hours as I want to walk 3 miles today even though it is 16 degrees outside. I need to beat diabetes which does not care what temperature it is. that disease only looks at diet and physical activity. I am not in a big rush to be dropped 6 feet in a hole.

When I get back later I would like to do one of the 6S packs and post data. I guess I will have to wait until summer or when I find a place I can solder to attempt to repair any bad solder joints and series connections. I can not do it here as the solder fumes make me and my wife sick. Even with the little air purifier. Too cold to open the windows and 400 square foot efficiency really cramps my style.

But at least I will know capacity. I will leave the balancers unhooked as well to monitor self discharge. If I can find the low cell banks then can look at them first for problems.

My question is if the cell banks are like > 97% and do not self discharge after a week or two then would that indicate no issues like cold solder joints or damaged cells ?????

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

calab   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 29 2022 1:42pm

Those meters are not accurate whether you are going by your cheap rc balance charger/discharger or your other cheap 6s voltage meter, you have to go by voltage not some % number, what does 97% even mean that is why you go by voltage. If 3.20v is full and you read 3.19v or even 3.18v its really meaningless on cheap meters who knows if its reading 3.172 and rounding up or 3.189 and rounding down. But if they are all the same voltages then that has meaning, but if they are off by 2v or 3v that does have meaning. A cheap 5$ digital multi meter would be a slightly better method of reading VOLTAGES, a 20$ digital multi meter you could have more faith in then there is the supreme ala supreme and not so much Fluke meters because those are institutional factors. https://www.eevblog.com/2021/12/19/eevb ... expensive/

I am no expert but leaving batteries around for a couple of months with no bms installed will reduce the voltage due to internal resistance by very little to determine anything at all. That is why you need to stress the battery by putting a load on it whether that load is 1amp or 5amps, when its stressed is when you look at it not when its not stressed in storage.

If the battery has a bms then its a meaningless test, but if it has no bms its still a valid test if your so busy or to lazy you dont want to do a capacity test. But what do you compare the battery to when you just leave it around for 6 months and measure the voltage? you have nothing to compare it to that is why you stress the battery or cells or modules.

Which is also why you test the battery, cells or module when you receive them in the mail. Not after you dumped a bunch of heat into the battery.

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