new eZip motor

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calab   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 17 2022 2:29am

With red loctite it is permanent like glue and takes a blow torch to get off but blue loctite you can undo the bolt it is whats used on the brake adapter bolts but I think you can get the remaining residue off with a wire brush and wd40 then take rubbing alcohol to wipe it down if you want to try to solder. Do a test on one if you have a spare.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 17 2022 5:33am

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 16 2022 11:42pm
Once I use loctite then it will be permanent ???? Since solder wont stick I wont be able to upgrade anyway so will just run it up to 1,500 watts and call it a day I guess.
#1 Yeah, would take a blow torch to proper solder onto your LTO, have to really cook them up!
#2 Also, the ring terminals you used look to be zinc plated steel, with high resistance and low amp rating.
#3 20 incher, with any of your massive battery conflagrations, will be heavy, (very top heavy), be aware, will try to pull\roll you down the stairs!
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by tomjasz » Jan 17 2022 6:15am

Jeebus! No need for a torch, but regardless a https://www.hisco.com/Product/HJ5000-3 ... gIkMvD_BwE will still be to hot for batteries.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 17 2022 9:00am

With red loctite it is permanent like glue and takes a blow torch to get off but blue loctite you can undo the bolt it is whats used on the brake adapter bolts but I think you can get the remaining residue off with a wire brush and wd40 then take rubbing alcohol to wipe it down if you want to try to solder. Do a test on one if you have a spare.
Thank you.

Much appreciated. It is exactly what I needed to know.
Jeebus! No need for a torch, but regardless a https://www.hisco.com/Product/HJ5000-3 ... gIkMvD_BwE will still be to hot for batteries.
Yea. I have a heat gun. I guess if you held it at a farther distance then it could work. Not sure the specs on it. It is from NY storage , In a box here with boxes on top.

I am happy that I have a solution for my problems and you all posted. No negative dialog for a change.

Thanks.

LC. Out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

calab   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 17 2022 10:29pm

I told you this before about blue loctite, it is very basic knowledge that is even used on bicycle like v-brake boss bolts or disk brake adapter and caliper bolts. Blue loctite is used so the nut does not come loose by vibration, you should even use blue loctite on rear rack bolts, it just takes a bit of muscles to undo the nut or bolt without resorting to a blow torch like you'd have to do with red loctite.

Dark angel is talking about using a blow torch to melt solder which is one option a high heat heat gun is another option or a 240w soldering iron https://www.lowes.com/pd/Weller-Electri ... 1000395569 some of those are two settings 180w and 240w you dont even need to buy the tips you can just use solid wire 10 gauge and bend it the way you want and bolt it down into the holders. https://toolsinaction.com/a-guide-to-better-soldering/
latecurtis wrote:
Jan 17 2022 9:00am
With red loctite it is permanent like glue and takes a blow torch to get off but blue loctite you can undo the bolt it is whats used on the brake adapter bolts but I think you can get the remaining residue off with a wire brush and wd40 then take rubbing alcohol to wipe it down if you want to try to solder. Do a test on one if you have a spare.
Thank you.

Much appreciated. It is exactly what I needed to know.
Jeebus! No need for a torch, but regardless a https://www.hisco.com/Product/HJ5000-3 ... gIkMvD_BwE will still be to hot for batteries.
Yea. I have a heat gun. I guess if you held it at a farther distance then it could work. Not sure the specs on it. It is from NY storage , In a box here with boxes on top.

I am happy that I have a solution for my problems and you all posted. No negative dialog for a change.

Thanks.

LC. Out.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Chalo » Jan 17 2022 10:37pm

There's probably a torque spec for the battery terminal studs, which may be less than the holding torque for blue loctite. Besides, that stuff is an electrical insulator and won't do the pack resistance any favors.

I've never seen any commercially produced battery with threaded studs that had any threadlocking compound on the terminals.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by tomjasz » Jan 17 2022 11:25pm

“ I guess if you held it at a farther distance ”

No! It’s temperature not distance.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 17 2022 11:28pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOxdmvZlGvM

Yea.

I watched that take place earlier today out my window.

Took them about an hour to move it about 10 feet.

Absolutely hilarious.

Any ideas for an electric snow mobile ?????

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

calab   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 17 2022 11:41pm

I believe I did tell him to check it out for himself as I do not know but I knew he would not bother as he wants literally everything handed to him on a copper platter along with step by step instructions its to bad he doesnt want to do any googling himself, thats his theme. He is afraid of many things and I cant blame him for being afraid of a loose connection and literally killing his ltos or lfp4s. Maybe use copper to help squish the wire for known good contact but knowing his luck he will make the copper washer to large or strip to much wire insulation and have a conductor touch the case ground. Either way his batteries will be overheated trying to solder because thats all he knows and some people need to learn the same lesson a few times over which ends up costing more money in the end then just cutting the losses and paying for a ready built battery.

That is a funny video and it does not look like a lot of snow to me some people are just stupid as frock so they probably have summer tires on or their tires are just bald. I ride in those snow conditions all the time, its nothing. I wouldnt bother helping those idiots unless they were old or a female with kids.

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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 18 2022 1:44am

Yea. It looks like it will be awhile before I make it anywhere to buy loctite.
There's probably a torque spec for the battery terminal studs, which may be less than the holding torque for blue loctite. Besides, that stuff is an electrical insulator and won't do the pack resistance any favors.

I've never seen any commercially produced battery with threaded studs that had any threadlocking compound on the terminals.
Well , if you look at the video I did tightening down the top nuts with the ratchet I did not use very much force so my guess is I did not ruin the threads on the terminal studs. They should be ok.

I think all that is needed is a little loctite on the threads close to the top of the stud. Then just tighten them down like I did in the video and I should be ok. The series connection and balance connection (ring terminals will be below where the loctite will go so should not effect the conductivity at all. I will need to be careful not to drip any on the ring terminals though. I should not need very much.

I got the 20" e bike with the 1,800 watt brushless motor in the e bike workshop. I counted the teeth on the spoke sprocket and it is a 56 tooth.

The controller is rated at 38 amps. 38 * 50V = 1,900 watts. 38 * 48V = 1,824 watts. 38 * 46 = 1,748 watts.

The motor is rated at 3,000 rpm at 48V so with the 11T motor sprocket and 20" wheel top speed should = 35 mph according to Electric scooter parts top speed and gear ratio calculator.

I got 28 mph out of it with the 13S - 20 Ah factory 18650 Lion pack out in the van. The 15S - LIFEPO4s got it up to 25 mph. I am hoping for 35 mph with the LTOs. If it wont do at least 33 mph then I know the rpms of the motor are NOT 3,000 at 48V. I do not see any other reason that could cause such a difference in speed calculated vs real time.

It could be a week or more before I find out. I did a short video how I made it possible to run almost 50 pounds of batteries on a 20" kids bike. :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee1qV_KFcr8

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 18 2022 4:40pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 17 2022 10:37pm
There's probably a torque spec for the battery terminal studs, which may be less than the holding torque for blue loctite. Besides, that stuff is an electrical insulator and won't do the pack resistance any favors.

I've never seen any commercially produced battery with threaded studs that had any threadlocking compound on the terminals.
Wrong threaded nuts, better go way less than 50% torque.
Proper thread nut will contact threads for ±720°
Wrong thread will only properly contact for a bare few degrees, any forced contact will be deforming (damaging) nut or stud threads.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Jan 19 2022 2:21am, edited 1 time in total.
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calab   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 18 2022 6:19pm

Well there is one guarantee in life, if the parents are fat they feed their children the same crappy foods so 50lbs extra is the american norm.

I would try not to have the loctite anywhere near wire contact and chalo made a great point on that so like I said I do not know but since my off the cuff remark was first dismissed but then taken seriously and literally with no googling done on my part or scott curtis part then I should have known and discussed other options.

There literally has to be info out there on what the proper way is to secure the connections with the proper inch or foot pounds of torque. I feel bad for helping the continuance of shoddy janky workmanship, well I felt bad for 40 seconds.

Since its winter and snow on the ground, why dont you buy the proper bolts and washers for the brand of batter you bought or is it such a generic brand that you are left to fend for yourself?

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 18 2022 7:40pm

Wrong threaded nuts, better go way than less than 50% torque.
Proper thread nut will contact threads for ±720°
Wrong thread will only properly contact for a bare few degrees, any forced contact will be deforming (damaging) nut or stud threads.
The proper nuts are on the bottom.

The wrong nuts on top.

The series connection and balance connection are ring terminals which go between the bottom and top nut. The wrong size nut is 5/16th. The nut that goes all the way on by hand is metric.

I had a LTO that was one of the 4 left over so no fiberglass resin or wood glue was on the stud threads. At the hardware store I was able to hand tighten the 5/16" nut almost all the way flush with the top of the stud. After that it would no longer turn by hand.

With the bottom not on and both the ring terminals the top nut will not go all the way on. It is the length of the stud stopping the nut. NOT the threads. However only half of the studs have the balance ring terminal. The nut will go on by hand but wont be tight enough. The ring terminal will move. That is where the ratchet comes into play. I don't have to torque down that hard though. All that is needed is about 1/32" A couple thread turns maybe. I am only interested in making sure the nut will not vibrate off. I was just going to use a little loctite to make sure that cant happen.

I just shot a video showing what I am talking about.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrtGzkvAsVM


If there is a better idea then let me know. I am in no big rush. It could be a week or longer before the snow melts. We got about 3 feet.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

calab   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 19 2022 12:32am

Home depot has some metric nuts I just bought some m5 bolts for my rear rack, they had metric nuts in and around the same size do you know the size that you put on

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 19 2022 1:02am

calab wrote:
Jan 18 2022 6:19pm
Since its winter and snow on the ground, why dont you buy the proper bolts and washers for the brand of batter you bought or is it such a generic brand that you are left to fend for yourself?
Too lazy and/or impatient to get the proper nuts!
He got some, but ran out locally.
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latecurtis   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 19 2022 8:24am

Too lazy and/or impatient to get the proper nuts!
He got some, but ran out locally.
I walked to the bank downtown yesterday to take out $40 and on my way to the grocery store there was 3 feet of snow on the side walk. I had to walk in the road and had to dive in the snow bank three times to avoid getting ran over. I was rolling around in 3 feet of snow and someone stopped and asked me if I was ok and when I lifted my head up got slush in my face from a passing car.

I finally made it to the store and went home. I already said I made 4 trips to Home Depot and two to True value and was all the nuts I can get. When I get loctite I will try a little on a different bolt to see if I can put some on without dripping it all over the entire bolt. Then I will put a nut on it and let sit according to the directions. If it works then will do it for the LTOs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrtGzkvAsVM

The video clearly shows that the top nut does not go all the way on anyway but does turn by hand even though it is the wrong size nut. If I were to use the correct metric nut there would be no difference. I would still need the ratchet to make it tight so the ring terminals don't move. I only need to turn the ratchet slightly. Talking about 1/16" or 1/32". Not enough to strip the threads on the stud.

Loctite is just to keep vibration from loosening the top nut.

Watch the video this time please.

Does it make any sense to anyone ?

Thanks.

LC. out.

PS.

I got a ride to Wall-Mart with my wife's son in a 4 wheel drive. My van is buried in a snow bank and too much snow to get my e bike out. I got groceries and picked up blue loctite. I just used it on a bolt and nut to test it. It takes 24 hours to fully cure. I will know by this time tomorrow if it will work.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by tomjasz » Jan 19 2022 10:25pm

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 18 2022 7:40pm

The wrong nuts on top.

What can anyone say...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 19 2022 11:35pm

What can anyone say...
Yea. Your right.

I guess if the loctite works on the nut I tested it will work for the LTOs. The loctite don't know the difference between a metric and a non metric nut. It is designed to do one thing. Keep the nut from un screwing due to vibration. If it can do that then I will be done building the LTOs and can start running them when the weather gets better.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Jan 20 2022 6:00am, edited 1 time in total.
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calab   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by calab » Jan 19 2022 11:52pm

The threads sure do know the difference between metric and sae aka non metric :lol:

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 20 2022 11:06am

Yea.

I did not wait the full 24 hours for the blue loctite to fully cure. I tried it in 12 hours.

I could not remove the bolt by hand but was not difficult with a pair of vice grips and a wrench. It might be good enough to keep the nuts from vibrating off.

I guess with a heat gun and rubbing alcohol it would easily clean off with a paint brush.

I guess I will use it for now.


12:16 AM. 1/21/22

It is finished. I need to paint it.

I had no trouble removing the nuts and putting them back on. The threads are not really damaged. I know about damaged threads. I must have installed and re installed a few dozed chain drives using the same carriage bolts over sometimes four or five times , maybe more. It becomes very difficult to even get a nut started after awhile and torqueing down becomes almost impossible.

The threads on those studs show no sign of wear and tear. The one 10S pack has the correct metric nuts and the other has the 5/16" nuts on top. All 40 top nuts now have the loctite so I should not have to unscrew any of them for any reason.

The video I got from youtube shows that 100 amps will work for 10 gauge wire but I will not need to ever run that much with my packs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DhzWPoSYoQ&t=73s

100 amps would not work continuous for more time than in the video and will eventually degrade the wire. The most I will probably run with my Frankenstein e bikes would be about 50 amps but only for 15 to 30 seconds. Continuous will be around 35 or 40 for more than 1 minute. I think I am good. Also I am using very heavy duty industrial 10 gauge wire. The insulation is rated for a very high temperature. A lot better than the speaker wire used in that test video above.

I think I am good for 30 to 35 mph and short bursts of 40+ mph for 10 or 15 seconds. I can now concentrate on working on the bikes. I am ordering a 54 tooth 8 mm chain and 11 tooth freewheel sprocket for 36 mph gearing. I am only using 38 and 35 amp controllers for now. I might build a dual chain drive e bike which will draw around 50 amps later on but only for 10 to 15 seconds. It will run around 35 amps continuous

The rating on the wire is for 600 volts. It is appliance wire and has thick strands of copper.

600V * 10 amps = 6,000 watts. 600V * 20 amps = 12,000 watts.

https://www.cerrowire.com/products/reso ... ns-charts/

That is what I am using. Good for 600V - 30 amps. Not sure why 600V. Most appliances are 220V so 220 * 30A = 6,600 watts.

I know volts and watts are not supposed to mean anything. It is all about the amps but the fact is this wire used for 600V appliance will take much more heat than standard 10 gauge car amplifier wire shown in the video which stood up to 100 amps briefly.

I do not see any problems drawing 35 to 40 amps continuous and 50 amps peak. The 10 gauge wire in the video above is nowhere near as heavy duty as what I am using.

The paint only cost about $5. Behr Dynasty sample. I hate buying quarts of oil base and only use a little and then it gets a skin on it and most of it goes to waste. I will have plenty to do both LTO boxes. It is also paint and primer together. It is flat black which is perfect. I am still painting. One box is done and will be starting on #2. I am using a $1.50 cent brush and since is water base washes right out.

1/21/22

Yea. I needed a new 11T sprocket for the 1,800W brushless motor. The teeth are bent on the old sprocket. I just ordered one from Electric scooter parts.

Yea.

Just saved myself about $80.

Going down to 1 degree tonight. I brought the lawn mower battery downstairs and hooked the 1 amp trickle charger to the power port to charge the van battery. Been at least a week since I run it. Seriously doubt it would start tonight but should tomorrow. The dome lights are working but a little dim.

The cold weather really takes a lot out of a battery. Especially when the battery was already compromised. You can not drain a car battery down until almost completely dead more than once or twice. One more time and it wont come back.

As soon as the #420 motor sprocket comes in that bike will be good to go. I just need to haul the 26" dual suspension upstairs this week end and set it up for the LTOs to run the 48V - 1,000W direct drive hub motor. Then I will have two bikes to run the LTOs with. I am almost done painting the second 10S - LTO box. :mrgreen:

Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Steven Sheng » Jan 22 2022 1:06am


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Re: new eZip motor

Post by tomjasz » Jan 22 2022 3:33am

Too funny.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Blacklite » Jan 22 2022 4:29am

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 20 2022 11:06am

The rating on the wire is for 600 volts. It is appliance wire and has thick strands of copper.

600V * 10 amps = 6,000 watts. 600V * 20 amps = 12,000 watts.

https://www.cerrowire.com/products/reso ... ns-charts/

That is what I am using. Good for 600V - 30 amps. Not sure why 600V. Most appliances are 220V so 220 * 30A = 6,600 watts.

I know volts and watts are not supposed to mean anything. It is all about the amps but the fact is this wire used for 600V appliance will take much more heat than standard 10 gauge car amplifier wire shown in the video which stood up to 100 amps briefly.
Complete crap. Voltage rating has nothing to do with the current capability of the wire.

Did you learn anything when you (apparently) studied electrical theory?

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 22 2022 9:19am

Complete crap. Voltage rating has nothing to do with the current capability of the wire.

Did you learn anything when you (apparently) studied electrical theory?
Wait a minute here.

I did not rate the wire in volts. The manufacture did. The wire is rated for 600V. That was not my idea. I go by watts (power).

For motors from 500 up to 1,000 watts I use 16 gauge home AC extension cords rated at 1,500W but I double up. I use two strands of 16 gauge wire for each power wire (positive and negative). I basically cut the 1,500W extension cord in half and cut off the plugs so am using 16 gauge * 2.

Do I think that 10 gauge appliance wire would work for 600V @ 30 amps = 18,000W. HELL NO !!! I think it would melt like the 24 gauge wire did in the video at 100 amps.

I posted a youtube video testing different gauge wire at 100 amps. ALSO NOT my idea or doing !!!! Someone else did that.

I am not full of crap. I am stating the facts.

I am going by the video and the rating. Obviously if the cheap speaker grade wire stood up to 100 amps then the 600V appliance grade wire should do 30 to 40 amps continuous. Maybe 50 amps for 10 to 15 seconds.

My point is it is appliance grade so heavy duty insulation. A 30 amp electric oven = 220 * 30 = 6.600 watts. I think that is too much.

If I were to rate that wire it would be 220V and 10 amps. 2,200W maximum. That is pushing it as far as I am concerned. I would test it first though to see how the wire holds up though before rating it. It is why I like the video.

Perhaps voltage means nothing at all. No value , but wattage does. It is power. Power creates heat. The more power the greater heat. I am looking at 1,000W to 1,500W continuous which is 20 to 30 amps. The wire I am using is rated at 30 amps continuous.

I will only be drawing 1,500 up to 2,000 watts for < 30 seconds. Therefore I see no problem with the 10 gauge wire for what I am using it for.

The 1,500W controller = 38 amps so 38 * 50V = 1,900W max. Probably < 1,500W continuous. The hub motor controller is 35 amps so 35 * 50 = 1,750W max. Probably < 1,200W continuous. Perfect for the heavy duty 10 gauge wire I am using for the LTOs. No upgrade is needed.

For the 3,000W 70 amp controller I will be using the 13S power modules in series with 4S - LiPo. For the power wires I will double up the same 10 gauge wire. I have heat resistant tape to tape together two lengths of 10 gauge for that.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 22 2022 2:22pm

Blacklite wrote:
Jan 22 2022 4:29am
latecurtis wrote:
Jan 20 2022 11:06am

The rating on the wire is for 600 volts. It is appliance wire and has thick strands of copper.

600V * 10 amps = 6,000 watts. 600V * 20 amps = 12,000 watts.

https://www.cerrowire.com/products/reso ... ns-charts/

That is what I am using. Good for 600V - 30 amps. Not sure why 600V. Most appliances are 220V so 220 * 30A = 6,600 watts.

I know volts and watts are not supposed to mean anything. It is all about the amps but the fact is this wire used for 600V appliance will take much more heat than standard 10 gauge car amplifier wire shown in the video which stood up to 100 amps briefly.
Complete crap. Voltage rating has nothing to do with the current capability of the wire.

Did you learn anything when you (apparently) studied electrical theory?
latecurtis wrote:
Jan 22 2022 9:19am

Do I think that 10 gauge appliance wire would work for 600V @ 30 amps = 18,000W. HELL NO !!! I think it would melt like the 24 gauge wire did in the video at 100 amps.
Would work just fine! 18,000W continuous.

12V @ 100A 1200W, alternatively, would cook and "burn".

600V rating is more an insulation factor. (electrical arcing resistance)

'Tis obvious that your irrational fear of electricity is based on your lack of basic electrical knowledge.
People tend to fear what they do not understand!
Last edited by DrkAngel on Jan 22 2022 2:50pm, edited 1 time in total.
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