Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 14 2015 7:57am

A while back I was doing the hot/cold thing to insert bearings. I took careful measurements at room temperature and also after I had applied hot/cold. The steel bearing outer race barely shrunk at all, but there was a tiny amount of measurable shrinkage. After applying heat to the aluminum that the bearing was to be inserted into...there was significantly more change in dimension in heating the aluminum.

So...its OK to do both, but...if you're only going to do one, heat the aluminum. I used gloves and set it on an electric stove top.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Lurkin » Nov 15 2015 1:49am

The proposed drop out of the Flux Beta was 135mm, so I purchased a 1500w DD Leafmotor. The motor casings are ~135mm wide and the axle is ~200mm.

I thinking of changing to a Qulibix Q76R. The dropout is 155mm. Is this too wide or is that still enough meat? (i.e. spacers either side of the motor casing to meet with the frame so it does not bend inward)? Just wondering if the drop outs will be too wide to screw the end nuts onto the axle? Any ideas?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » Nov 15 2015 5:00am

The Qulbix Q76R looks awesome, and its lightweight and affordable too. thanks lurkin for bring it up here :)
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Nov 15 2015 4:55pm

Lurkin wrote:I thinking of changing to a Qulibix Q76R. The dropout is 155mm. Is this too wide or is that still enough meat? (i.e. spacers either side of the motor casing to meet with the frame so it does not bend inward)? Just wondering if the drop outs will be too wide to screw the end nuts onto the axle? Any ideas?
With the 14mm axle I think it would be strong enough.

You probably don't want to hear this, but they do customise the axle free of charge. I ordered my '1500W' motor with 165mm axle shoulders to fit the massive dropouts on my Fighter. They were also supposed to make the axle total length longer and make it with 16mm nuts, but did neither so it might be a bit hit and miss as to what you can get them to do.

In other news, my Leaf motor is doing quite well. I took it for a quick spin on the weekend through some very steep/rough terrain and it performed brilliantly. The Adaptto Mini-E and Leaf motor make an excellent combination and torque is great. I was able to ride up and over logs and rocks that would have definitely stalled out my 18Fet Infineon/ HS4080 combo.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Lurkin » Nov 15 2015 5:01pm

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Lurkin wrote:I thinking of changing to a Qulibix Q76R. The dropout is 155mm. Is this too wide or is that still enough meat? (i.e. spacers either side of the motor casing to meet with the frame so it does not bend inward)? Just wondering if the drop outs will be too wide to screw the end nuts onto the axle? Any ideas?
With the 14mm axle I think it would be strong enough.

You probably don't want to hear this, but they do customise the axle free of charge. I ordered my '1500W' motor with 165mm axle shoulders to fit the massive dropouts on my Fighter. They were also supposed to make the axle total length longer and make it with 16mm nuts, but did neither so it might be a bit hit and miss as to what you can get them to do.
Do you know how wide the axle on yours is, versus the width of the dropout? I'm more worried about the with rather than the thickness of the axle.

They sent me mine with tiny phase wires despite being requested to upgrade them to 3mm. Not really an issue for me, just annoying.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Nov 15 2015 5:28pm

Lurkin wrote:Do you know how wide the axle on yours is, versus the width of the dropout? I'm more worried about the with rather than the thickness of the axle.

They sent me mine with tiny phase wires despite being requested to upgrade them to 3mm. Not really an issue for me, just annoying.
From memory, the axle total length is 220mm I think. As mentioned, my axle's shoulder width is 165mm. My Fighters dropout width is also 165mm, so it's a perfect fit...although I add washers as well to protect the shoulders from damage, so I have to spread the dropouts slightly now to make it fit which is fine.

Plenty of others have added nuts to make up the shoulder width on these motors without issue, so I 'think' you should be fine.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by cwah » Nov 21 2015 4:15am

I'd like to fit this 16" moped tyre to my dahon jetstream with 20 wheel and leafbike motor (1000w):
http://www.tyretectrading.co.uk/micheli ... -rear.html

Can I fit it on normal bike rim or shall I get a moped rim? if so, which one?

thank you

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Nov 21 2015 4:59am

My gut reaction is dont bother with moped rim on 1000W. That will make it even MORE heavy.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » Nov 22 2015 9:24am

markz wrote:My gut reaction is dont bother with moped rim on 1000W. That will make it even MORE heavy.
you're right, but the problem with bicylce rim is there is almost nothing available between 20" and 24".
i know about 22" bmx rim, but this size is very rarely..
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by oger » Nov 22 2015 7:00pm

Hey guys,
Just wanted to chime in quick for a few questions if you don't mind.
Y'all got me interested in this leafmotor. Especially the 1000w version.
From what gathered so far I should opt for 3mm wire no cassete version.
Now for the winding:
I live in europe and have to keep this on the DL for being on the street (sort of)
I have a 10turn MAC now and I run this at 28(battery)amps on 12s (43,2v).
This gives me the speed I need: 20mph with 26" rims.

Would it make sense to switch to a (how many turn?) 1000w leaf?
I know I won't get quite the low torque, a little more weight, but it would be nice to have the reliability and quietness of a DD. If cogging is no problem!
Will a sinewave controller make this thing real quiet? At about 30 amps?
Thanks!
can't wait for this to show up in the sim.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » Nov 23 2015 2:19am

Yep, gotta send one!
So here is the fundraising

Kodin: 200USD!
Martin: 40USD
Neoptronix 40USD

So should probably cover one motor and posting. I will talk to Leaf Bike now.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Nov 23 2015 5:22pm

Ideally, would you want to send more then one motor?

The Leaf 1500W is 7.4kg (16.31 lbs.) and the MXUS 3kW is 9kg (19.84 lbs.)
I just wonder if weight would have any issues, besides better heat dissipation.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » Nov 23 2015 5:36pm

i only can see 20" or 24" rims - nothing between..

@ Allex

have you decided what motor you will buy and what turn count?
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Nov 24 2015 2:53pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_wheel
Head on down to the heading
700C road bicycle wheels / ISO 622 mm
700C front wheel
Cant see no other wheels then 20" or 24", unless moto rim 17" and 19". Spoke angles might be too sharp depending on the diameter of the hub.
Theres two 16" bicycle tires here
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/rims.html

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 24 2015 5:47pm

Moped rims can be found in 16, 17, 18, and 19-inch...even larger too...

16 inch moped rim will seat some 20-inch bicycle tires, so...


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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Nov 24 2015 6:32pm

My Leaf motor '1500W' is performing quite well at 3-4KW like I had hoped.
It's so nice having something this capable in such a light package.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=56965&p=1123565#p1123565

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by liveforphysics » Nov 25 2015 3:31am

Thats a solid improvement! How much effort to mount the fans?
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Nov 25 2015 3:52am

liveforphysics wrote:Thats a solid improvement! How much effort to mount the fans?
Less each time I do it ;) since this is the 3rd time I've done it now.

The mounting of the fans probably took about 2-3 hours since this time I used long bolts through the stator clamping the fans to each other instead of the epoxy I had used previously. I had to mark, then drill 3 small 3mm holes right next to the existing 25mm holes for each set of fans.
Image
I also had to solder all the fans together in series, and run additional (18awg) wires through the axle, so all up probably about 5-6 hours just on the fans part of modifying this motor.
I also drilled the side covers, replaced bearings, painted the stator and magnet ring, upgraded the phase wires, added 2X temp probes, and a second set of hall sensors, so all together around 20-25hours for everything at a guess. Although I tend to take my time and do things carefully...I quite enjoy doing this kind of work, so don't mind too much how long it takes me.

I would be happy to do this for others if they were willing to cover the costs...I can say it wouldn't be cheap, due to the time it takes me, but I also wouldn't be seeking to take any huge profit...I've got my day job for that. 8)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » Nov 25 2015 1:24pm

spinningmagnets wrote:Moped rims can be found in 16, 17, 18, and 19-inch...even larger too...

16 inch moped rim will seat some 20-inch bicycle tires, so...
yes, but what i was trying to bring up was a larger choice of bicylce rims that are equivalent to 17" and 18" moped would be nice to have.
the 20" with 406mm ETRTO is popular (there is a wide choice of really strong rims), but the next larger size that is popular is already the much larger 24" with 507mm ETRTO.

luckily i found this nice 22" (457mm ETRTO) rim and tire recently:

http://www.sandmbikes.com/product/hardg ... rc-22-rim/
http://www.sandmbikes.com/product/hardg ... line-tire/

when i build a bike with a Leaf motor, i will definitely go this way. with an OD of 576m such wheel has similar size as 17" moped, but about 1-1,5kg lower weight 8) especially for the 1000W Leaf this should be a good combination.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Samd » Nov 25 2015 10:13pm

markz wrote:Ideally, would you want to send more then one motor?

The Leaf 1500W is 7.4kg (16.31 lbs.) and the MXUS 3kW is 9kg (19.84 lbs.)
I just wonder if weight would have any issues, besides better heat dissipation.
Actually neptronix has the data for the original power curve - do you need to test one at all?

Although I'm pretty keen to dyno curve one against the Mxus 28mm V2 with temp sensor. It'd be nice if the v2 28mm Mxus could close the gap on the 20% narrower stator.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by crossbreak » Nov 26 2015 3:19pm

as this is available as custom wind, this looks like the perfect motor for a middmount like the LMX P1. I'll try to order a 2T for 48V and 1:2 reduction drive. Should run as fast as a 48V 4T though. I'll use the normal 26" MTB tire.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » Nov 27 2015 9:03am

would be nice if they offer a 2T winding.
here is another frame with mid-mounted hub motor from linukas: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61016
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: [url]viewtopic.php?
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case


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