Please recommend a bicycle to add a motor to...

Joined
Oct 15, 2008
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251
Location
Southern California, USA
I am not familiar with what are good brands of bicycles (in the USA) to which I could then add a BMC motor, probably one of their new ones.

My wish list is...
1 ) Keep the price under 3000 $US (just the bike here, no motor or battery...). More like 2000 $US if possible.
2 ) A bike that has full (front+rear) suspension with ample travel, to allow me to glide over paved road irregularities (potholes, uneven surfaces...), so I don't end my rides with a sore butt. I'm thinking 5" (12 cm) of travel.
3 ) An upright riding position (I know it causes more drag). Maybe a downhill MTB will typicaly allow for a low seat?
4 ) Weight under 35 lb (16 kg), so that when I add a 10 lb motor it will be under 45 lb without batteries.
5 ) No cables atop the frame, ahead of the seat. So I can use my Thule 990 bike carrier.
6 ) Hydraulic front disk brake.
7 ) A minimum of 5 gears. I only plan on light pedaling, so no need for much more gears.
8 ) Desired (not a must): Side (or center) stand.

I'm thinking:
a ) Iron Horse
b ) Trek

Suggestion of brands/models greatly appreciated. Happy rides,
Jerome

PS. Did my homework, and I'm not interested in:
1) Optibike: High price, transport weight of 57 lb (can't remove battery) and noise (don't mind myself) will attract unwanted attention on the bike paths I use.
2) E+: Weighs 65 lb (removing front wheel not practical for transport, and would still be too heavy), no rear suspension.
 
Jerome Daoust said:
Suggestion of brands/models greatly appreciated.

Have you thought about the ~14lb Crystalyte 4-series that can take massive over-abuse both voltage and current-wise and keep on ticking? Highly recommend checking out http://ebike.ca/ as a vendor. Top notch service and competitive pricing. Keep in mind full suspension bikes present some, minor, battery mounting challenges. At times they are not steel dropouts either these days though it's debatable whether that matters at lower/mid power levels. If you're going for a high power setup you're going to want/need steel dropouts and/or torque arms.

Also, as per your bike page, asking is regen worth it? Personally I don't think so. We just don't have the mass to justify it unless you really want/need the extra few percent it offers. .02

Really you need to state desired range, speed, hills involved (still SoCal?) etc. etc. and the answers will come pouring in.
 
WOW a $3000 budget for the bike alone?! :shock: My whole ride only cost about $1400. You could probably get a good platform to work with for around only $1000. $2000 is very doable.

But, you are definitely looking for a downhill frame. They're made to take a fair beating and finding one with the specs and parts you're looking for shouldn't be too hard. I think the Kona bikes are pretty popular, but, other than that, I'm not too knowledgeable about actual bike parts.

FWIW, http://www.mtbr.com has all kinds of user reviews. Good place to have a look around.

I bought this stand from eBay. Not the prettiest thing, but I like it enough to recommend it. All steel and adjustable.
 
pwbset said:
Really you need to state desired range, speed, hills involved (still SoCal?) etc. etc. and the answers will come pouring in.
Range: I am considering a battery that will have close to 1000 Wh (for example a 48 V, 20 Ah), so cruise at 25-30 mph for 35+ miles.
Speed: I am considering a motor that will alow 40 mph peak speed, but most likely I will cruise at 25 mph.
Terrain: Some hills, but that depends a lot on what ride I pick. Not commuting, just Sunday rides: My favorite no-car paved paths.

My idea is to provide a bike to High-Power Cycles, and have them do the electrification. They are local for me (an hour away) and Chris Hunt has been helpful with information. It's just that the bikes they typically offer have cables on top of the frame (not good for my bike carrier):
a) Schwinn Ditch. Maybe OK, because cables seem to go under the top of the frame just before the seat. Need to test with the bike carrier.
b) Cadillac AM 2.4. Looks like this would be a problem.
c) Ferrari CX 60. Looks like this would be a problem. And bike is about 4000 $US.

Also, thanks to "Link" for the recommendation of Kona bikes and that a downhill frame is a good way to go.

Thanks, Jerome
 
It would be nice to keep your options open and not rule out bikes that have cables running along the top of the frame. A small section of plastic or timber that had a couple of slots in it or a small dome for the cables to run under could be placed between your carrier and bike frame and there would be no pressure on the cables problem solved.
Kurt
 
Hmm, I had that bike carrier and cable on top doesn't really matter. Sure cable will touch the top locking mechanism but it doesn't affect the bike/cable or anything else.

To illustrate - I've even velcro some equipment on top of the cables while riding!!! and it doesn't affect the operation of the brake/shifter. So locking down while transporting certainly will not do anything either. I wouldn't worry about cable running on top of the frame. Hope that helps.
 
I wouldn't sweat the carrier or the cables. I have a cheaper version of the same thing, a swagman, and it does no harm to my top of tube cables. I drive some real rough roads to the singletrack riding area too. To make a DH bike have a comfort bike riding position, put some BMX handlebars on it. It will be a pain to recable all the shifters and breaks, but worth it. You will have to look hard for some with long enough handles for the throttle and shifters though. I ended up just tossing the front derailur to make room.
 
I highly recomend Kona Down hillers over Iron horse or treck. The Stinky of the 1999 to 2006 has an excilent open triangle design (for battery placement options) and a long pedigree of winning DH races and free ride events. It does have top tube cables, however. Newer models have less space in the frame, but better cable placement. its worth looking at used and rebuilding one, or having one rebuilt.

Likely, you will want a tripple clamp front fork. the extra stiffness helps with the added weight of the motor and batteries, pluss the extra forces of braking at higher speeds.

Most good downhillers weigh in above 40 pounds. there added weight comes from them being built stronger.. a light weight DH bike like some of the treks is a bit of a joke.

As for 1000 watts of battery, have you worked out how to mount that on a full suspension frame?

No Rack currently on the market can handle the weight of a battery that size, and bolt to a full suspension frame. You will need a custom battery mount.
 
Drunkskunk said:
As for 1000 watts of battery, have you worked out how to mount that on a full suspension frame? You will need a custom battery mount.

Jerome - check out Jonathan's build thread as it may give you some battery placement ideas etc.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4506#p66912
 
Drunkskunk said:
I highly recomend Kona Down hillers over Iron horse or treck.
...
As for 1000 watts of battery, have you worked out how to mount that on a full suspension frame? No Rack currently on the market can handle the weight of a battery that size, and bolt to a full suspension frame. You will need a custom battery mount.
Thanks for all the good input guys.

For the battery and mount, I am considering those from Hi-Power Cycles (see mount in attachment). For example, their Lipo 67 V 16 Ah (1072 Wh) weighs 16 lb.
 

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Jerome Daoust said:
Thanks for all the good input guys.

For the battery and mount, I am considering those from Hi-Power Cycles (see mount in attachment). For example, their Lipo 67 V 16 Ah (1072 Wh) weighs 16 lb.

Most of those seatpost mounts have a Max weight rating of 20 pounds. A few claim 25 pounds. But they are designed for the stress loads of 8-12 mph of a pedal bike, and not for constant use under max load conditions.

There are a large number of posts in this forum of seatpost mounted racks failing. they just can't handle the stresses of 25+mph and near max loads for long duty cycles.

Some people have had good luck with stock seatpost mounts, but that isn't the norm.

If you're running 16 pounds of Lipo, I would want as much protection as I could for them. Lipo has an explosive personality when dropped.


Its not impossable to mount your batteries over the rear tire, but it is a chalange and will need something built to handle it.
 
After looking at Hi-Power Cycles web page I found the weight specs listed for there battery packs Questionable. I could be wrong but they seemed to light to me for there capacity and voltage.
Kurt.
 
I came across this website while watching a video on you tube.
He carries 105 lbs on this rack on a full suspension bike.

http://www.k3pgp.org/bikerack.htm

attach2s.jpg
 
My experience has been that downhill bikes suck at day to day urban traffic, eg coming to a stop, starting from one and going around at slow speeds. So I can't recommend a downhill bike, a dual suspension cross country bike will have geometry that's much better suited for your motorcycle, downhill bikes have angles that make them suck at low speeds and put the weight too far back.
 
Mathurin said:
My experience has been that downhill bikes suck at day to day urban traffic, eg coming to a stop, starting from one and going around at slow speeds. So I can't recommend a downhill bike, a dual suspension cross country bike will have geometry that's much better suited for your motorcycle, downhill bikes have angles that make them suck at low speeds and put the weight too far back.
Thank you!

Mathurin said:
... better suited for your motorcycle
:lol:
 
Jerome Daoust said:
Drunkskunk said:
I highly recomend Kona Down hillers over Iron horse or treck.
...
As
for 1000 watts of battery, have you worked out how to mount that on a
full suspension frame? No Rack currently on the market can handle the
weight of a battery that size, and bolt to a full suspension frame. You
will need a custom battery mount.
Thanks for all the good input
guys.

For the battery and mount, I am considering those from
Hi-Power Cycles (see mount in attachment). For example, their Lipo 67 V
16 Ah (1072 Wh) weighs 16 lb.
HiPowerCycles_BatteryMount.jpg

Don't like seat post rack for reasons mentioned and also because its too high up. Look at these racks.
http://www.oldmanmountain.com
sherpa-rear-disk-w-bosses-LG.jpg

Old Man Mountain People were very helpful by telephone and email. Emailed pictures and dimensions of by bike. Here is what they suggested. See picture of my still unfinished Electric Bike Project # 2
rack.jpg
Rack attaches to custom torque plates. Go here to see.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3803
 
The Stinky would be great, and I must say I love my Santa Cruz Bullit. I wouldn't trade it for any other commuter frame. Solid single pivot, cushy ride, and geometry that forgives mistakes very well but still handles well at low speed. The frame is not open however, so mounting a rear rack is a good idea. The Stinky would be very hard to mount a rack to.
 
You do NOT want to use a DH bike for this project. 100mm of travel is more than enough for road and trail use. The big shocks on DH bikes
are for big jumps and drops -- things you simply cannot do on an Ebike.
 
gregben1 said:
You do NOT want to use a DH bike for this project. 100mm of travel is more than enough for road and trail use. The big shocks on DH bikes
are for big jumps and drops -- things you simply cannot do on an Ebike.


Last time I checked my Ebike was jumping stairs and drops just fine, and unavoidable gaps in the road barely put a dent in my trajectory. Why the hate against DH bikes? What if I called my bike a "freeride" bike instead? :roll: I personally wouldn't feel safe on my XC bike converted for 35mph use. Fork and suspension is too flexy.


We can hardly examine a bike for the original design, we are not using them for the designated purpose.
 
Test ride a "long wheelbase recumbent bike" and you will feel that suspension is not at all needed because of the extra long frame.
Think of it as a long torsion bar suspension built cleverly into the frame design, definately one of the most comfortable bikes, with lots of room for batteries and cargo.

And you live in an area with some of the best recumbent bike builders on the planet.
 
Back to the subject of racks. Bear in mind that if you put the rack on the rear swingarm, it's sprung weight. I'm no expert on the handling effects of this, but this I know. I want my expensive as hell battery on the part of the bike that doesn't bounce around all day. Maybe it's not that fragile, but I do like the idea of the battery on the frame somewhere, where the shocks do some good to cushion it when I get airborne. I carry a 15 pound lifepo4 on a good seatpost rack and have no problems with it whatsoever after 1400 miles. there are about 15 water channels built into my bike trail route that become jumps when you hit em at 30 mph so it's not like I baby it. I doubt I could carry much more weight than 15 pounds, like if I tried to put sla's back there, but for a 15 pound lithium its ok so far. That small a weight, I barely feel it at all.
 
If you don't mind having no rear suspension, a Rans dynamik pro is a good base bike. Ride is comfy and no need to dismount and remount at traffic lights, etc. Mount all the batts in the center frame, controller in a rear rack or behind the crank.

I don't like mounting batteries in a seatpost rack, even on a rear swingarm arm rack unless you like performing in a circus and turning your rear into a wiggle stick - like the battery mounting in the "High-Power?" Cycles bike . :cry:

If you still want to mount your batts in the seatpost, at least put it close to the seat post using 2 or more clamps, this way the weight is closer to the center and be as one with the rider. I limit weight to less than 10 lbs.
 

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