Building first Ebike

Hello all,

I am looking to get into ebiking as a new hobby.
I been playing around with electric skateboards but I want something that I can use to get to work and stop driving 9 miles, paying for parking and then taking 3 trains and a walk.
I been doing research and I think I have settled with a Mid Drive system because I would like to spend sometime in the woods during the weekend. There are a lot of big hills in all of the wooded areas in my area and
it looks like the mid drives are better for this. I would also like to keep the amperage around 40 amps as well. I been using Dirt bikes and quads for playing around in the the woods buts its always a process and all day thing to do so. If I could just get on it and ride to the woods and ride it back it would be great. Ebikes are very rare where I live too so its a gray area and are not restricted anywhere.


Desired max speed on level ground. mph or kph color=#FF0000](Max speed would have to be between 30mph & 40 mph)[/color]
Desired max range at what cruising speed. mph or kph 30 miles at 24mph with pedaling
Preferred bike wheel size, or wheel size of bike you want to convert. Most common kits are for 26" wheels. I haven't decided but more than likely 26inch
Brake type of motor wheel. Disc or not. Disc brakes
Rider weight. 180 LBS
Terrain. Exp: mostly flat, some short hills under 20% grade, I want to climb mountains, etc., etc. I will be riding on flats on the route to work and big hills in the woods on weekend.

I have been looking at the Lightning Rod small block.
The big block is intriguing and the price is great but I do not want to build a battery. I would rather buy a battery and I from my research it looks like 72v & 100v batteries are in the DIY domain.
Any advice would be great and thanks!

Welcome

There are many different choices as the specifications and performance you need are pretty standard. So you just need to research from different vendors from your country, ebay, Aliexpress, you would like to buy.

cev said:

Desired max speed on level ground. mph or kph (Max speed would have to be between 30mph & 40 mph)
Desired max range at what cruising speed. mph or kph 30 miles at 24mph with pedaling
Preferred bike wheel size, or wheel size of bike you want to convert. Most common kits are for 26" wheels. I haven't decided but more than likely 26inch
Brake type of motor wheel. Disc or not. Disc brakes
Rider weight. 180 LBS
Terrain. Exp: mostly flat, some short hills under 20% grade, I want to climb mountains, etc., etc. I will be riding on flats on the route to work and big hills in the woods on weekend.

I have been looking at the Lightning Rod small block.
The big block is intriguing and the price is great but I do not want to build a battery. I would rather buy a battery and I from my research it looks like 72v & 100v batteries are in the DIY domain.
Any advice would be great and thanks!

Click to expand...

For such desired speed you need a 48V system minimum, that will give you around 35mph max speed flattening with for example a BBS2 mid drive system. If you want sustained 40mph you should shuffling possibilities as a 1000W or 3000W rear hub at 60V or 72V, but as you said, this is not the best of the best for mountain trial hilling up.

For your range needs, 30 miles at 24mph with pedaling. You need around 350W of total power at 25mph, that could be 100W of pedalling and 250W of electric power with middle pedalling. So you need around 350Wh of electric energy tanking into account mixed driving conditions with half pedalling.

a 48V 10Ah battery have 480Wh of energy, that is after energy conversion around 450Wh of output electric energy to your motor, so this would be the minimum battery you should feel comfortable with your requirements. I would recommend a 48V 12Ah or any other similar battery with more voltage if you need, with a minimum of 550Wh of energy.

26 inch is pretty balanced and standard, that is a choice more for your desires and fancy. Disc brakes are a must with middle drives, With hub motors and regenerative braking you have the chance to recover between a 5% to 10% of kinetic energy into your battery, and a very strong motor brake, being the uses of brake discs optional.

You must expect a strongly range reduced when climbing under 20% grade mountain hills, so take that into account.

About the DIY battery, not also 72V to 100V, even at 36V or 48V you can find very good products in your country from some experienced ES battery builders, that can make sure the cells and construction will be both excellent, and surpass broadly the quality from most of cheap Chinese batteries you can buy even at a very similar cost.

There are others important frame and bike components concerns that I won't tip because is not my experienced terrain :lol: so many others will help you.

Thanks!

For that battery I will use the Em3ev 50v 9p High Power 25r, 22.1 AH with a 12FET controller.
The shape is great and from what I can tell its a great price too considering its size ( I found batteries 48v batteries at 13ah 25a for $300 more).

I am still on the fence on the motor as the lightning Mid Drive is great but it looks like its requires a lot of maintenance and I really want to build a work horse.
The hub motors are really simple and pretty much plug and play and while there are no hills at all on my commute to work, I really would like to play in the woods though.

Nobuo said:

For such desired speed you need a 48V system minimum, that will give you around 35mph max speed flattening with for example a BBS2 mid drive system. If you want sustained 40mph you should shuffling possibilities as a 1000W or 3000W rear hub at 60V or 72V, but as you said, this is not the best of the best for mountain trial hilling up.

For your range needs, 30 miles at 24mph with pedaling. You need around 350W of total power at 25mph, that could be 100W of pedalling and 250W of electric power with middle pedalling. So you need around 350Wh of electric energy tanking into account mixed driving conditions with half pedalling.

a 48V 10Ah battery have 480Wh of energy, that is after energy conversion around 450Wh of output electric energy to your motor, so this would be the minimum battery you should feel comfortable with your requirements. I would recommend a 48V 12Ah or any other similar battery with more voltage if you need, with a minimum of 550Wh of energy.

26 inch is pretty balanced and standard, that is a choice more for your desires and fancy. Disc brakes are a must with middle drives, With hub motors and regenerative braking you have the chance to recover between a 5% to 10% of kinetic energy into your battery, and a very strong motor brake, being the uses of brake discs optional.

You must expect a strongly range reduced when climbing under 20% grade mountain hills, so take that into account.

About the DIY battery, not also 72V to 100V, even at 36V or 48V you can find very good products in your country from some experienced ES battery builders, that can make sure the cells and construction will be both excellent, and surpass broadly the quality from most of cheap Chinese batteries you can buy even at a very similar cost.

There are others important frame and bike components concerns that I won't tip because is not my experienced terrain :lol: so many others will help you.

Click to expand...

Here are 2 motors I was looking at.

The Em3ev with a 12FET controller
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=138


The lightning Rod mid drive, cost a lot more than all the other kits and while it will be great in the woods in the weekend. It will be DD for 30 mles a day 5 times a week so I am pondering a hub drive that is great in flats but ok in the woods as a compromise. Also hubs are soo much cheaper.
http://www.lightningrodev.com/


I think I am going to go with the Em3ev motor,
Being this is my first ebike I don't want to take on too much

Also what is the difference between these two batteries
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=123

and the

http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs-for-kits/52v-samsung-18650-20ah-with-charger/

Looks like the lunacycle has a higher constant amperage and higher volage at a cheaper price. The EM3 has the triangle shape and a larger capacity but 500 dollars mor expensive.

Thanks!

cev said:

I think I am going to go with the Em3ev motor,
Being this is my first ebike I don't want to take on too much

Also what is the difference between these two batteries
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=123
and the
http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs-for-kits/52v-samsung-18650-20ah-with-charger/

Looks like the lunacycle has a higher constant amperage and higher volage at a cheaper price. The EM3 has the triangle shape and a larger capacity but 500 dollars mor expensive.
Thanks!

Click to expand...

Both packs same voltage 14s=58.8v Paul's battery has triangle bag & charger, luna costs extra. Paul's battery is 25r NCA the luna you linked is 26f NMC with lower C rate. At 20ah you might not need 8c on your hills depends how far you go on a charge i guess. NCA supposed to last longer but nobody's been running them long enough to know for sure afaik.

With that big a battery i'd really want it in the triangle what bike do you have? If you get Paul's kit why not get his battery if you can afford it, good luck

luna cycle, em3ev, ebikes.ca all great choices.
Geared mac motor would be good along with their battery and controller and charger for a one stop shop.
ebikes too has a one stop shop.

Look at the Direct Drive 1500W leaf motor, or the mxus 3000w 4T motor with an 18fet controller, or a 8 fun mid motor is good choice also.
If you are in Canada you can choose goldenmotors.ca, they sell batteries too along with motors and maybe controllers.
YesComUsa.com sells kits as well and are priced very well.

You can keep your eyes peeled on the for sale threads here, there was a great deal on a motor for $60 I was thinking about buying and I think it was from a seasoned ES user but I cant remember, think it was a 9C motor or something.

Steel frame and Torque arms are a must, safety first.

I dont have a bike yet, I sold the good bike a year ago when I started playing around with eskates.
The skates were fun but I sort of just lost interest in the process of having to drive somewhere to use it. I could use them in the street but that has resulted in a lot of falls and various run ins with cars that aren't expecting a 30mph skateboard, once that resulted in a broken leg. I used an ebike the other day while I was walking in the woods and i was instantly hooked.

I will buy a bike once I have the battery so I can be sure I get something that will fit, more than likely around the 500 dollar range. There is a Genesis v2100 in the basement and its probably the best walmart bike I ridden, but I wouldn't use it for this.

Thanks for the link on the leaf motor,
That motor actually looks pretty good, I looked it up on youtube and it looks like it does go up hills. The mxus is a little too large, I would have to get a higher voltage battery

Now i have to ponder between these two.

thanks for the help!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16GJj8mfYfs

wow,
definitely going with the Em3ev battery

The mxus motor can run on lower voltages, you just need the proper controller. I believe if I am not mistaken the mxus motor and the leaf motor are pretty close in weight, maybe a kg or 2 off if I remember correctly. Not to sure on the price of the leaf but the mxus can be had for around $350. Best bet would be to buy a 1000 watt kit. That Genesis walmart bike is good for low power, like 1000w. Can even use a cheaper front motor with no detrimental(s?p) effects as I have learned from Justin.

You should search Genesis v2100 on this forum. I think you will be in for a shock as to what can be achieved with them.

Do you know anyone else in your area with a bike powered to the amount you are considering?

Going for a ride on that is the best way to decide what to buy. Deciding what you want to end up with early on really saves $ in the long run - not buying things that are too lower power (requiring replacement) or higher power (expensive to start with).

Just searched on the forum for the 2100 and wow there are a lot of builds using it.
The bike is great for the price just not sure how it would hold up. I may play around with it to get a feel for it, we shall see.

I don't want to spend more than 3 thousand to do this since any more than that will make it very hard to break even in fuel and parking savings.

Using em3ev it will cost $1558, This includes the 1000w mac motor, Triangle 50v 24AH25r Battery, Cycle analyst, 12fet and a free wheel

Leaf bike is $1443 with the 1500watt kit which comes with the 12Fet and a little LCD, not sure how it compares to the cycle analyst.

So the price Is pretty much the same for the mac and leaf motor just have to find out which will be best.

I have seen the front hub kits and it seems simpler but the rear wheel seems more fun.

Alright, so the deal with the Genesis is that it has a good solid frame to build off. Everything else on it is garbage. And what do I mean by garbage is that you throw it in the trash. The seat front and rear shocks,handlebar grips,brakes, shifter are all complete garbage. However, once you start modding your own bike to your liking it will have a solid bike. I'm running 3000w through my Genesis now for a 1000 miles and have yet had a problem. You will need dual torque arms/plates(this is a must). This is a solid frame that is a lot of fun. There are guys on here putting more than 7000w trough them( with steel swing arms). I'm putting over 3000 with custom 1/4" plates on both sides.
Check out kinaye-motorsports.com to get an idea of what I'm talking about

Please read this and fill in your location.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66302

Simple818 said:

Alright, so the deal with the Genesis is that it has a good solid frame to build off. Everything else on it is garbage. And what do I mean by garbage is that you throw it in the trash. The seat front and rear shocks,handlebar grips,brakes, shifter are all complete garbage. However, once you start modding your own bike to your liking it will have a solid bike. I'm running 3000w through my Genesis now for a 1000 miles and have yet had a problem. You will need dual torque arms/plates(this is a must). This is a solid frame that is a lot of fun. There are guys on here putting more than 7000w trough them( with steel swing arms). I'm putting over 3000 with custom 1/4" plates on both sides.
Check out kinaye-motorsports.com to get an idea of what I'm talking about

Click to expand...

At that point I rather just buy a another bike and i wasn't really planning on using the Genesis.

I think I am going to go with the Leaf motor or another non geared motor. The geared Mac motor looks like its good for 20-30 mph using 12t or 10t but the Leaf motor looks like a better motor for when the boost bug bites.

Dude, get a used steel framed bicycle from the classifieds they are cheap, I wouldnt bother with no Wally-Mart junk!

Walmart does not manufacture a Great Value (store brand) bike. They sell the same bikes as Dicks. Academy, Target, and all the other big box stores. Saying their bikes are junk is basically saying any bike you buy anywhere is junk. All these places sell bikes with steel dropouts, except maybe speciality bike shops. So they make an excellent place to shop for a bike to convert.

Get a older used Downhill bike one that the battery you are buying will fit in to understand were and how your battery will fit your frame ,and don,t use a wallmart bike a elec bike can and will go over 30mph and be a lot heaver so needs good Disc brakes.

rider95 said:

Get a older used Downhill bike one that the battery you are buying will fit in to understand were and how your battery will fit your frame ,and don,t use a wallmart bike a elec bike can and will go over 30mph and be a lot heaver so needs good Disc brakes.

Click to expand...

I am not too worried about the frame tbh.
I will budget in a frame that will hold up to the abuse.

I dont want to build a bike though, i want to just get a bike that wont fall apart and will just do the conversion. Really dont feel like piecing up a bike.

Only thing i keep going back and forth on, is the motor.
I really want a motor that will do 30 plus no problem and hold up.

I been looking for one stateside.
I also discovered lunacycles is stateside and i kinda want to go through them instead. Lower shipping charges, faster shipping and easier support. Doesnt seem like their magic pie and mac motors will handle what i want though. The 18fet i will order from china if i cant find it here.

Lyen 18fet $200 with free shipping to USA and Canada.

Why anyone that only wants 30mph would spend $200 for a controller is beyond me. Just use the controller that comes with a 48V 1000W kit. On 48V you will get 30+mph with the controller that comes with the kit. If you want 40+mph speed get a $50 72V controller. to use with the kit. I bought mine over 4 years ago for <$35 shipped. Still going strong today, as is my 3 year old Mongoose bike I bought at walmart for $99 and have had up to 61.4mph.

Quality
Functionality
Ability to log data and report
Ability to act as other parts of the bike, i.e. integrate with BMS as adaptto has to name a few...

I skimmed through the thread and I'll let you know my thoughts. A 1000W kit is nice and cheap and would be a good starting point for a beginner. There are a lot of upgrade paths you can take from there, like a controller upgrade to 72V as wesnewell said.

To get 30 mile range you'll probably need around 20Ah of battery. From personal experience I can tell you I've done a 34 mile trip with a 48V 1000W kit on 13S 20Ah li-ion.

The genesis is perfectly capable of what you're asking for, you just need to upgrade certain parts. At the very least upgrade the suspension if you're going offroad.

Baron said:

I skimmed through the thread and I'll let you know my thoughts. A 1000W kit is nice and cheap and would be a good starting point for a beginner. There are a lot of upgrade paths you can take from there, like a controller upgrade to 72V as wesnewell said.

To get 30 mile range you'll probably need around 20Ah of battery. From personal experience I can tell you I've done a 34 mile trip with a 48V 1000W kit on 13S 20Ah li-ion.

The genesis is perfectly capable of what you're asking for, you just need to upgrade certain parts. At the very least upgrade the suspension if you're going offroad.

Click to expand...

yea 30 miles is the bare minimum I would need.

It takes ~21wh per mile at 20 mph. so that's 633wh for 30 miles. on level ground, no wind. 20ah of 48V is 960wh and should be more than enough in all but the worst conditions, in which case you might need to slow down to 18-19 mph. At 30mph, you'll need double the battery size. Cutting wind drag can increase range considerably. Just riding in a tuck position will increase range by 30%.

over 30mph + you want over 30 mi range + what you really want is a motorcycle a whole lot cheaper then a E bike