Best configuration for peddaling at speed?

I've currently got a rear direct drive hub motor on a 26" wheeled mountain bike.

I'm happy with the circa-30mph speed.

But, I'd like to be able to contribute a bit too, without spinning too fast.

Unfortunately 26" wheels with a freewheel rather than cassete means something like 42/14 highest ratio. (Haven't checked.)

I could up the front chain ring a bit; but I'm used to my road bike/hybrid which are are 50/11 on 29" wheels (though skinnier tyres)* and it's not going to come that close - still spinning fast.

(*actually the road is 50/12 I think, with even smaller tyres, so probably a bit lower geared than the hybrid.)

I always liked the idea of a mid-drive, especially for off road - coming from motorcycles/mountain bikes, making the wheels light is often a big factor in improving performance, never mind just having more gears, which seems better. However it seems typically the motor spins the crank pretty fast.

Some direct drives allow a cassette; though I believe these are often a bit wider than normal dimensions.
Or I could go back to finishing off adding a RC outrunner to the front of the hybrid (chain driven with rear BMX wheel) - but I suspect heat would be an issue there as that plan was intended more for 'boost' power than continuous.

Finally; I could go for a geared hub on the front of a hybrid, giving me the normal chain line.

Any recommendations etc?

You can get an 11-34T freewheel and 52-42-32 chain wheel. That's quite lazy at 30mph

Only one company seems to do the 11T freewheel but they are on most ebike websites

First, use as big a ring as your bike allows. Big rings reduce wear and tear on your drivetrain, but small rear sprockets wear out the chain which in turn wears out the sprocket teeth.

Understand that at 30mph, you'll be losing more energy to increased drag by pedaling briskly than you are likely to contribute to your forward motion. The best strategy from an energy standpoint is to level your pedals, pull your knees in, and crouch down to diminish drag. Of course that doesn't indulge your desire to pedal, so you choose according to your priorities.

Cheers.

I hadn't realised you could still get 11t freewheels - had looked at one for my mum's (non-e) bike a while ago, but ended up swapping over the cassette wheel from another bike (which nicely, I then sold on ebay for exactly what I paid for it with less good gears and brakes ).

Road bike chain wheels and shouldn't be too bad.

I did have a look to see if 60t+ chain wheels were easily availble, which would allow me to use the existing rear with a 14t smallest. Not easily it seems.
I'm not too worried by all out speed - I haven't got a road legal motorbike right now, but could get my 675 that'll touch on 160mph road registered if I was . Or take the van etc.
If I purely want exercise, I'll take a normal bike. Normally e-bike because I either want to get there quicker, don't want to get sweaty, or don't want to put too much strain on dodgy knees; for instance if I'm travelling to a running club group run which is already going to be (ab)using them.

So it's a) partly to 'look the part' and b) to get some minor exercise at the same time. Also going down steeper hills at the moment it's actually slower than my hybrid/road bikes. And up less steep hills I feel I may be able to add a bit, but don't want to be spinning at 140rpm!

Looking around a bit more, seems 60t chainrings are available for not TOO silly amounts from China.

But will it fit?

I have a 56t chain ring that fits an mtb crank, that I just love. But most bikes, it just won't fit without rubbing the frame. I run it with 14t freewheels.

I agree with Chalo, at some speed, for me about 25 mph, above that speed pedaling just becomes sort of a waste of energy. By then, you at best are putting in 10% of the total energy used, and may still not be geared high enough to do much more than spin.

Don't get me wrong, pretty nice feeling to pedal at 35 mph, with my 56 front and a good cassette 11t in back, but that took a 2000w front hub, and now my pedaling was helping 5%. Worth it? Not really.

Put a 52 up front if it will fit, a 14 in back, and pedal all you want at a more efficient 23-25 mph. It's still damn fast for bikes that are not racing!

What these guys said. I settled on a 53/40/26 triple up front, and an 11-32, 7 speed, DNP freewheel in back. I use the 53 on pavement, the 40 on dirt/gravel, and the 26 on bike/hike trails. At speeds over 25, I am in the 11 tooth 90% of the time, not good for chain life, but I now only use these speeds for getting out of busy intersections, etc. I have ridden over 60 miles at WOT, 27-32 mph. It isn't as enjoyable as you'd imagine, as you spend all your effort looking for stuff in the road, and animals in the weeds. I have found that setting the cruise control in the 19 to 23 mph range is much more fun. The speed variation from uphill to downhill is greater, so you get to shift more. It feels more like a bike ride, and you are going slow enough that you can do turns at intersecting rural roads, without touching the brakes, so don't need to reset the cruise control.

Cheers for the thoughts.

I'm not looking for any significant benefits on the flat. More just so it still looks like I'm riding a bike normally; albeit considerably faster than most would expect one to be ridden. (ahem; Possibly this motor is a little higher wattage than it should be for road use.)
Hoping I can go a bit past the motor's top speed downhill (I can on the road/hybrid bikes, but they don't have fat off road tyres to sap power) and maybe again assist a little up the steeper hills where wind isn't a massive issue.
Even if it does nothing at all for speed/distance, I'm happy enough to be just peddling away.

Never mind having 180mph on the clocks of a motorcycle on track, I rode a Honda c90 around for a bit* - less stable handling and less good brakes. So happy doing 30mph on this .
*We actually got it for an endurance race - now that was a bit scary; the front suspension definitely not designed for extreme use!

Good point on it fitting - I'll have to get a tape measure out, but looks like a quite large one should be ok.

Just come back from a 8 mile round trip to the shops on the road bike. At what I would guess was maybe 20-25mph, I was actually spinning a bit faster in top than I'd ideally want to be on the ebike. (As on the ebike looking for more of a relaxed gentle exercise.)

"Hoping I can go a bit past the motor's top speed downhill (I can on the road/hybrid bikes, but they don't have fat off road tyres to sap power) and maybe again assist a little up the steeper hills where wind isn't a massive issue."

Running a DD hub, set up for 30 mph, you won't be going over 35 mph downhill. I knew this going in. It was a deliberate choice to keep me from being too stupid on a 130 pound bike, here in the hills. My 72 pound mid-drive is much faster downhill.

Ah; is that the extra resistance from the direct drive hub?

I'd probably go geared hub if I was starting from scratch, but got this as a complete setup for a pretty good price.

My leafbike 1500w motor has very low resistance when just rolling along. I am impressed by how little it is.
And if I just put in a tiny amp or two, it will still be noticeable downhill.

If you want to spend money you can look into the geared front chainrings. Good candidates for being able to pedal along at high speeds.
Such as the schlumpf drive or a few others.

Wheazel said:

If you want to spend money you can look into the geared front chainrings. Good candidates for being able to pedal along at high speeds.
Such as the schlumpf drive or a few others.

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That's really cool, cheers!

Would also preserve the low gears in case I run out of battery etc - especially if I don't end up electrifying my festival trailer as I've been planning to for ages AND I run out of battery as I did this year thanks to using far too many amps in sticky mud!

Really nice idea; just unfortunate the price seems to be more than my bike with 12s 13ah lipo, chargers and lighting system cost me!

_g_ said:

...
Really nice idea; just unfortunate the price seems to be more than my bike with 12s 13ah lipo, chargers and lighting system cost me!

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The high prices reflects the cost of these units being hand-built by elves, subcontracted to dwarves, whom, while appreciating the sounds of hammers on anvils, have moved up to the world of finance, where their inherent greed influences their pricing structure.
... or something like that.
-or- if still interested in such a beast...
You might look at the Patterson crank that costs 1/4 to 1/3 of your bike.

Problem with the Patterson crank is that it has an obligatory 28t ring, which becomes a virtual 45t ring when it's shifted up. But then it's only a 45t ring. You can do that with a regular MTB crank.

Did find another one which offered three options - but again it's basically replicating a normal drive train.
I can see with an internally geared rear hub this could offer some nice options for a full wide range of gears and say allow you to have an enclosed drive chain.

It's the 2.5x that would be perfect for my application - can then have the upper range as electric drive range and the lower for no-battery/extreme situations.

Did note that they seemed to push the swiss-watch justification.

"is that the extra resistance from the direct drive hub?"

It is because the motor acts as a generator at speeds above its top speed. That puts a bit of energy back into the battery, and greatly reduces the effects of testosterone poisoning. Pressing the regen button greatly increases the regeneration, making mechanical brakes almost unnecessary, except at stop signs.

Warren said:

"is that the extra resistance from the direct drive hub?"

It is because the motor acts as a generator at speeds above its top speed. That puts a bit of energy back into the battery, and greatly reduces the effects of testosterone poisoning. Pressing the regen button greatly increases the regeneration, making mechanical brakes almost unnecessary, except at stop signs.

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Yea; that's what I meant cheers.
I'm not sure if this bike has regen setup - I know the DIY box the previous owner made which has a volt meter and lighting controls seems to have the voltage go up if I let off going down hill at a reasonable pace. Not really bothered either way with that - will get a bigger battery at some point and for the most part don't intend to do big distance on it.