See a lot of inexpensive brushless hub motors nowadays (hallomotor etc) are these any good?

I've been using my wilderness energy brush hub motor with the intent eventually to upgrade to a higher power brushless and now am seeing lower prices and thinking of getting one. I see Mxus and Hallomotor a lot, are these any good for 36v use? And if so with the kits so many are 500w with 22a controller; I'd really prefer something with a little more power; I have a pack of 30ah prismatic cells that have a very high burst rate. Thing is, if I buy a separate controller how do I match it up when they all seem to have different plugs: andersons etc? Here's an example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RisunMotor-EBike-Motorized-Wheel-1000W-Brushless-Gearless-Electric-Bike/183008362551?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=690311735168&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/24-60V-1500W-Brushless-Brushed-Motor-Controller-for-E-bike-Electric-Bike-Scooter/153050202654?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=452878749193&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

How would I connect these together?

And are these cheaper brushless motors going to hold up?

Lots of inexpensive DD motors can last a long time. Just don't over heat them of short them out. I have over 16000 miles on my yescomusa motor. Others are over 20000 miles on there's.

https://www.yescomusa.com/products/26in-rear-electric-bicycle-motor-conversion-kit-48v-1000w

Buy with paypal or some other protection. If you have a problem contact them and make them send out a new part at no cost. Have a battery ready to test. You can het them as cheap as 175.00 if you look. Free shipping

I've put about 6500 miles on my $235-ish ebay DD motor. It appears to be a Nine Continents 2706 clone. It has behaved perfectly. That said, I don't drive it hard. It seldom sees more than 1000 watts of power and typically sees 400-650 watts. I think the simplicity of design makes DD motors pretty durable. There are only a few things that can go wrong or wear out with the simple design.

So you are looking at $ 350 plus shipping for the motor and $ 35 total for the controller, then need the other items as well.

Buying from a vendor that sells all parts that fit together is a much better way to save yourself allot of problems . ( I have experience with this already with a second motor / bike build that I did )

alpharalpha said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RisunMotor-EBike-Motorized-Wheel-1000W-Brushless-Gearless-Electric-Bike/183008362551?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=690311735168&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/24-60V-1500W-Brushless-Brushed-Motor-Controller-for-E-bike-Electric-Bike-Scooter/153050202654?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=452878749193&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

How would I connect these together?

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wturber said:

I've put about 6500 miles on my $235-ish ebay DD motor. It appears to be a Nine Continents 2706 clone. It has behaved perfectly. That said, I don't drive it hard. It seldom sees more than 1000 watts of power and typically sees 400-650 watts. I think the simplicity of design makes DD motors pretty durable. There are only a few things that can go wrong or wear out with the simple design.

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Could you send me a link to the one you got for comparison? Main issue I'm running into is 700C isn't as common as 26" in the lower price range.

I wouldn't be running mine more than 500w either, liked the option of having a higher amp controller but don't really need it, and's just harder on the batteries.

I suppose a kit does make it all easier, the lower priced kits seem to have 500w controllers (22a) and I would've liked something closer to 40a that's why I showed the separate motor and controller.

If you mix motors and controllers from different suppliers, you'll probably have to crimp or solder on your own plugs (after figuring out the phase and Hall wire assignments). It's not difficult, but it is a chore. You might find that you want to do it by and by anyway, to get some feature or capability that didn't come with your kit controller.

Some kit sellers can supply different controllers than what they list for the kit.

Keep in mind that the greatly improved efficiency of today's hub motors over a WE brushed hub means that you don't need nearly as many amps to get the same motor output. (You do need more than half, though).

ebikeling has 700c, and although I've yet to purchase a kit from them, they seem to have a good reputation. About $175 for geared (36V) and $200 for DD (48V) kits

alpharalpha said:

wturber said:

I've put about 6500 miles on my $235-ish ebay DD motor. It appears to be a Nine Continents 2706 clone. It has behaved perfectly. That said, I don't drive it hard. It seldom sees more than 1000 watts of power and typically sees 400-650 watts. I think the simplicity of design makes DD motors pretty durable. There are only a few things that can go wrong or wear out with the simple design.

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Could you send me a link to the one you got for comparison? Main issue I'm running into is 700C isn't as common as 26" in the lower price range.

I wouldn't be running mine more than 500w either, liked the option of having a higher amp controller but don't really need it, and's just harder on the batteries.

I suppose a kit does make it all easier, the lower priced kits seem to have 500w controllers (22a) and I would've liked something closer to 40a that's why I showed the separate motor and controller.

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This is the kit I bought.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-LCD-Display-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Conversion-/371289491857?hash=item5672940991

Key features Good
I really like the KT controller and display systems for inexpensive builds. Think of it as a poor man's Cycle Analyst. It gives decent information about what is happening with the bike and lets you customize controller features. The kit was complete save for torque arms and a battery and was comprised of reasonably well matched components/parts. It was fairly straightforward to install. The plugs were the newer smaller ones and all the connectors were correct for each other. The tire was decent and durable. Easy peasy.

Key features Bad
The freewheel was pretty crappy quality. The DNP I replaced it with not only has better gearing, but it is quieter and shifts nicer with its ramped cogs.

Key features Marginal/Debateable
The PAS sensor can be easily broken if your crank axle is a bit large and you force it on. So be cautious with installing it. The brake levers work fine, but they don't exactly scream "quality."
My rim and spokes lasted about 5000 miles. This kit comes assembled with 12 gauge spokes which is really not the best way to build a wheel like this. Counter-intuitively, heavy spokes don't necessarily mean a stronger wheel. You need to match spokes to the strength of the rim. 12 gauge spokes are almost always a mismatch on a bicycle rim. After 5000 miles of running a suspension-less and heavy rear end I finally started breaking spokes. This was probably due to small cracks forming from the spoke holes on the rim due to the large stresses from the 12 gauge spokes which probably led to uneven stresses on the spokes. So if you are planning on putting lots-o-miles on the bike, you might consider getting the wheel re-built straight away. If not, I'd say my wheel was reliable for the typical average to low mileage user. The rim itself seems to have been of decent quality. So having the wheel rebuilt right away with thinner gauge butted spokes might save you the bother of doing it later. Or you could do like I did and see how long it holds up. I only have about 1500 miles on the new rim and wheel build. So I can't say if it is actually any better or not. But it is supposed to be. My wheel re-build cost me almost as much as the original kit. But I used a pretty nice rim and probably paid a small premium for the builder I used. I think most local bike shops (LBS) will do it for around $75 using the rim that came with the bike.

This appears to be the same kit at a slightly lower price. I suppose you could have it re-built as 700c, but that would probably not be as cheap as finding a kit already built that way.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Front-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Conversion-Kit/291973640306?hash=item43fafc3072:m:mB-OMU8i-ySU3XbPDRth-dg&var=590969387982

You can find deals on them generic motors, I bought a 750W-1000W kit, without battery for $200 Cnd$ which is like $150usd, and that is shipped to my door. It was a 24" but if you want a long lasting wheel, best to buy a brand name rim and spokes, and lace it yourself which is easy to do. Battery purchase will be the most expensive part, unless you can find some used tool batteries for cheap which have a high enough discharge then say low discharge laptop batteries.

wturber said:

This appears to be the same kit at a slightly lower price. I suppose you could have it re-built as 700c, but that would probably not be as cheap as finding a kit already built that way.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Front-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Conversion-Kit/291973640306?hash=item43fafc3072:m:mB-OMU8i-ySU3XbPDRth-dg&var=590969387982

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Thanks for the link. I saw that seller while browsing kits, good to know they're reputable (was the controller you mentioned the one that came with the kit?)

Awhile back when I had brought my bike into a nearby shop the guy I talked to used to rent e-bikes in Hawaii and he asked who laced the spokes, back then I didn't understand how thinner was better.

Looks like I'll have a dilemma to either buy a used 26" bike or either pay more for a 700C, or buy a rim and spokes and go that route.

What are some good brands of rims/spokes for e-bike use?

Alex DH rims / DT Swiss Rims / Mavic Rims welded rims are better although cost more.

DT Swiss or Sapim Spokes, 14 gauge or 14/15/14 butted gauge . Next time I will go with straight 14 gauge because hub motors are so large that when a butted spoke is cut to the right length it can then be on the 15 gauge part , then you need or at least should get 15 gauge nipples .

It would be good for someone here to tell not only the OP , but others as well , who are thinking of getting a motor and controller from different sources .... a step by step system to get the 5 hall sensor wires connected correctly when they are different colors , and/or motor and controller from different vendors.
Phase wires seem to be Blue/Yellow/Green , consistently ? at least on the hub motors I have.

There needs to be a Sticky Thread on this subject, I looked at the top of E-Bike General Discussion , and it is not there ... yet .

Pictures as well would be helpful.

You do not have to go far to realize regular spoke sizes are good for ebike motors.

13G and 13/14G
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/spokes.html

Sometimes 12G doesnt hurt either, because I find with my heavier body weight, that 12G can be more forgiving when a spoke breaks or comes loose. Been riding for a few weeks with one spoke nip busted through rim, and another spoke broke at J bend. With a 13G it would not have lasted long and the avalanche would have started early in the breaking spokes department.

2old said:

ebikeling has 700c, and although I've yet to purchase a kit from them, they seem to have a good reputation. About $175 for geared (36V) and $200 for DD (48V) kits

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Ebikeling says only 28-32c tire; isn't that a bit small?

alpharalpha said:

2old said:

ebikeling has 700c, and although I've yet to purchase a kit from them, they seem to have a good reputation. About $175 for geared (36V) and $200 for DD (48V) kits

Click to expand...

Ebikeling says only 28-32c tire; isn't that a bit small?

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They have kits that are 700c, which is usually identical to 29" (I think some manufacturers specify 28" for what others call 29"). It's not something that I've delved into since all my bikes "e" or pedal are 26" or 29".

Sellers want to sell obviously, so what they tend to do is to appeal to the UK crowd of 250W they will list their 500W as 250W. There is no set standard for wattage, not even in the legal requirements.

https://www.ebikes.ca and go to the LEARN link in the top header
https://www.ebikes.ca/learn/power-ratings.html

While an actual watt is an actual watt, There is NO SUCH THING as a "rated watt" or any standarized method for rating ebike motor power.

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That's the truth, regardless of what other companies imply. With most electrical devices the term rated power has a very clear meaning. Like a 60 watt lightbulb can be counted on to draw 60 watts of power when it is turned on. A 1500 watt heater will produce 1500 watts of heat, regardless of which brand or model you use.

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The actual power output of a motor depends entirely on how heavily it is loaded in a given situation and the maximum electrical power that the controller lets flow into the motor, it has little to nothing to do with a rating anywhere.

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Grin Tech Tour is the search term I used in Google to find this, Justin talking about power rating.
https://youtu.be/IxB2j-egWcQ?t=714

markz said:

Sellers want to sell obviously, so what they tend to do is to appeal to the UK crowd of 250W they will list their 500W as 250W. There is no set standard for wattage, not even in the legal requirements.

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While most definitions are ambiguous and unclear, there are a few laws that talk specifically about "maximum motor output." That's a fairly definite definition. So e-bikers should check the wording of the laws in their location if they are concerned about compliance.

2old said:

alpharalpha said:

2old said:

ebikeling has 700c, and although I've yet to purchase a kit from them, they seem to have a good reputation. About $175 for geared (36V) and $200 for DD (48V) kits

Click to expand...

Ebikeling says only 28-32c tire; isn't that a bit small?

Click to expand...

They have kits that are 700c, which is usually identical to 29" (I think some manufacturers specify 28" for what others call 29"). It's not something that I've delved into since all my bikes "e" or pedal are 26" or 29".

Click to expand...

28-32c refers to the tyre width. 700-28c is a tire with an inner diameter of 622mm (same as 29er) and a thickness of 28mm (bit over an inch).

The ebikeling page says up to 2.25" on all the 700C kits I looked at.

https://ebikeling.com/products/conversion-kit-48v-1200w-700c-direct-drive-front-rear

lionman said:

28-32c refers to the tyre width. 700-28c is a tire with an inner diameter of 622mm (same as 29er) and a thickness of 28mm (bit over an inch).

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Yes, but... you're misusing the "c" part. There is no "28c" or "32c". It's only 700C, which is an archaic French designation for a wheel size. At one time there were 700A, which measured 700mm in diameter with a skinny tire; 700B, which had the same overall diameter but with a wider tire; and 700C, which measured 700mm in diameter with a tire about 40mm wide. 700A and 700B are extinct wheel sizes, but 700C has become an industry standard.

Yes, some tires and tubes say "700 x 28C" on them, but in reality, it's 700C x 28. Or-- in more modern and ISO standard terminology, 28-622 (622mm being the bead seat diameter of a 700C wheel).

Ok hardest problem first. Matching a controller to the motor.

Get the right controller and it will save you a lot of trouble. The right controller will have self learning, or self study wires. Often these controllers will have one color of big power wires.

When you hook up the controller, match up colors of the halls wires, then connect any sequence you want on the big power wires.

Then you connect the two wires for the self study to each other at the controller.


Power up the controller, with the wheel off the ground. it should start spinning. Give it a bit of throttle, and see if it runs smooth. Then unplug your two self study wires. Now your motor is programmed and you are all set to go.

The controller will of course, need to be sized so your battery does not suffer, nor your motor overheat. Your current WE motor can handle 1500w easy btw, but the controller would have to be sensorless.


Lots of good threads out there for finding the sequence of wires for non learning controllers, but the short version is this. Match up your colors on the big wires. Then try matching the halls colors. No joy, try other combinations on the halls blue green and yellow wires till you find one that works good, forward. There will be one good forward, and one good backwards.


Changing connectors is easy, you can do your tests with wire nuts, then once you find the right combo, solder them permanent, or add connectors of your choice to get connected.


Now the motors. Justin is right, there is no set wattage for motors. But some motors have a spec for a recommended continuous wattage, where if the load is reasonable, the motor will never over heat. The motor you are looking at is actually rated 500w. This motor has a stator about 28 mm wide. It can handle up to 2000w easily, and more if the time its run at 3000-4000w is not too long. ( at 3000w, you get about 20-30 min if you are running it hard) YOU CAN run a 3000w setup through that motor, but in general run much less, and again, be in the run it infinitely ballpark. So yes, you can run 200w all you want for huge range, yet still have a 40 mph burst when you need it briefly. But in general,,, this size motor shines best with about 30 amps of 48v, giving you a 30 mph bike and no problems with melting them until you overload them. ( with too steep, or too heavy, or worst of all both)

Cheap motors can be fine, but that particular one is way overpriced, cuz they call a 500w rated 28mm wide motor a 1000w motor. :lol:


But if you want that 3000w motor, you simply need a more expensive, heavier motor. Something with 35mm stator, or wider. THEN you have truly more powerful motor than your WE. ( you can go ahead and run that WE at much higher power than 1000w if you like btw) Then you can let it rip with big 40 and larger amps controllers, and more volts.

dogman dan said:

( you can go ahead and run that WE at much higher power than 1000w if you like btw)

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I don't think so! He has the brushed kind.

Skimming the thread again. By the time I wrote, I was thinking the WE brushless kit.

He's going to love the new rig compared to those weak old brushed motors.

Does anyone know the actual weights of these Hallomotors?
Every motor is listed at "5.8kg".