DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
RunForTheHills   100 W

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by RunForTheHills » May 04 2019 7:22pm

donn wrote:
May 04 2019 6:48pm
The key thing I'd recommend, if you're getting a throttle, see if you can get a controller with "cruise control", which holds the current throttle until you actively change it or brake. Within that, you can pedal 100% or more and see the motor amps go down to 0, or whatever you want and let the motor take the remaining load. Constantly holding the throttle on is for some reason, for me, a lot less convenient than it was on my motorcycle.
I got the Phaserunner/CA3. I believe it has that function. I also ordered the digital aux control with the kit.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by wturber » May 04 2019 7:35pm

RunForTheHills wrote:
May 04 2019 5:38pm

PAS is an alternative to using a throttle. It applies power to the motor based on pedal cadence or pedal pressure if you have a torque sensor. From what I can tell, some people prefer PAS and some people prefer throttle only. I ordered both a throttle and a torque sensor and will see which one I prefer. I suspect I will like PAS as I want to just pedal it like a regular bike and have some assist.
I switched to PAS (cadence only) when the stat e-bike laws changed. With a Class 3 you are only allowed to have motor assist if you are pedaling, and I want Class 3 speeds and Class 3 motor power. It's a dumb law, but since I like to pedal with effort anyway, no skin off my nose.

Mine is a KT system with the LCD5 (I think). It has one of 5 PAS assist levels. I simply choose one of the five PAS levels to suit the terrain, wind speed, how fast I want to go, and how hard I want to pedal for the gear that I'm in. From a riding process standpoint it is a lot like choosing your bike gears. And the throttle is active if the pedals are moving and acts like an instant full power switch.

Anyway, having done both, I could live with either. I've never had a desire for cruise control.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by RunForTheHills » May 04 2019 8:13pm

wturber wrote:
May 04 2019 7:35pm
Mine is a KT system with the LCD5 (I think). It has one of 5 PAS assist levels. I simply choose one of the five PAS levels to suit the terrain, wind speed, how fast I want to go, and how hard I want to pedal for the gear that I'm in. From a riding process standpoint it is a lot like choosing your bike gears. And the throttle is active if the pedals are moving and acts like an instant full power switch.

Anyway, having done both, I could live with either. I've never had a desire for cruise control.
Thanks for your perspective on PAS. Mine will be setup with five assist levels as well using the digital aux control.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by bengee » May 14 2019 9:43pm

What are people's experience with Leaf Bike?

I placed an order during their holiday period and in the mean time decided to cancel and switch to E3MBV.

And my experience thus far has been far short of my expectations when I'm spending around £1,000 with them.

I'm now in a position where both have my money. About £1000 each, neither of them are responsive. Leaf haven't responded to any of my recent emails sent in the past week.

Perhaps my expectations are too high? I guess they are tiny outfits and probably need to acquire the parts before shipping. I'm happy to wait for the products, but I'm not happy to wait 48+ hours to respond to a simple email requiring a one sentence response.

Am I being too harsh? And how would you suggest getting my money back from Leaf? Paul was incredibly chatty during their holiday period, but as soon as I cancelled my order he went silent and hasn't refunded my money.

Boring bit out of the way...

In terms of my bike. I bought a Genesis Vagabond 2019 and I'm currently riding as much as I can and customising as I go. Bought a Brooks Flyer, Suntour seatpost, rear and front racks, and some other bits. When I've assembled I'll upload a photo.

I also bought Surly Moloko bars. Anyone tried these? Keen to see other people's configurations.

My current unanswered questions are around my brakes, whether they're good enough when we're electrified. Should I go hydraulic?

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by RunForTheHills » May 14 2019 11:00pm

You could try adding 20lbs to the bike (maybe in a backpack) to simulate the extra weight of the motor and battery and find a long downhill to test them on. The bike comes with 160mm rotors, so you could always change to a larger rotor in the front for more stopping power.

All of my bikes have drop bars, except the Brompton. I ordered the Nitto Albatross bars for electric bike I am building. They came in a few days ago, but I didn't like the sweep on them. So I ordered the Jones Loop SG 2.5 bars. They are similar to the Surly Moloko, but with 2.5" of rise and they don't have the horns. They haven't come in yet, so I can't say if I will like them.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by bengee » May 14 2019 11:08pm

Thanks for that idea! My rear rack is on, so will go out this morning and test. Fortunately I live on a hill. On the other hand, I'll have to cycle back up the hill :roll: without assistance :confused:

I very much like the look of the Jones Loop bars you mention. Are you new'ish to ebikes? Would like to see your setup if you have pictures and don't mind sharing.

My Surly's arrive today, but I won't be fitting them just yet. Not until I know how I'll use them. I bought them whimsically, so happy to return if need be.
RunForTheHills wrote:
May 14 2019 11:00pm
You could try adding 20lbs to the bike (maybe in a backpack) to simulate the extra weight of the motor and battery and find a long downhill to test them on. The bike comes with 160mm rotors, so you could always change to a larger rotor in the front for more stopping power.

All of my bikes have drop bars, except the Brompton. I ordered the Nitto Albatross bars for electric bike I am building. They came in a few days ago, but I didn't like the sweep on them. So I ordered the Jones Loop SG 2.5 bars. They are similar to the Surly Moloko, but with 2.5" of rise and they don't have the horns. They haven't come in yet, so I can't say if I will like them.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by RunForTheHills » May 14 2019 11:40pm

Hills build character. Fortunately, it looks like your bike has low gearing. Yes, I am very new to ebikes. This is my first ebike build. All the parts are ordered, but I am still waiting for some of them to arrive. The frame is a Surly Disc Trucker. I should have everything in the next week or so and I will post a build thread.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by Chalo » May 15 2019 12:22am

bengee wrote:
May 14 2019 9:43pm
In terms of my bike. I bought a Genesis Vagabond 2019 [...]

My current unanswered questions are around my brakes, whether they're good enough when we're electrified. Should I go hydraulic?
Your bike is claimed to have TRP Spyre brakes, which are particularly good cable discs. There will be nothing other than subjective feel to differentiate them from hydraulic brakes.

Your bike is a relatively short wheelbase drop bar model. Even caliper rim brakes would be plenty strong enough to lift the rear wheel and overturn the bike. So really, just about any decent quality brakes will get you as much braking power as you can possibly use. Would I pay hundreds of dollars to change the feel (but not the usable power) of brakes that are already among the best available? No way. But some dingdongs-- I mean guys-- might think it's worth it. You know... if it's best for my wanker car, it must be best for my bike, right? Right?
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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by bengee » Jun 15 2019 1:31am

All the components have arrived

Below is the list. I think it's all arrived in tact. Sure I'll find out if not.

Link to pics of the bike

Link to pics of the conversion kit components

Things I'm thinking about;
where to start
where to mount battery
I have a trailer for dudley, could that be useful?
do's and don'ts when working with battery's and motors
can I break anything electrical by doing something "stupid"? (excluding brute force, clumsiness etc)
it's all a bit confusing, where would you suggest I like for guides/videos etc?
How long will this take to put together realistically, for an ignorant novice?

I'm out all day today at a local festival. My pup is 20 weeks and I'm going to take him out in the trailer for the day, before I electrify the bike. Looking forward to seeing responses when I'm back. I'll probably start the build tonight if I feel empowered enough to do so!

Peace :es:

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by RunForTheHills » Jun 15 2019 11:19am

That's a nice looking bike. So you decided to go with hydraulic brakes (based on the brake levers you bought)?

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by bengee » Jun 16 2019 7:19am

Yeh they weren't too expensive and thought would feel safer as an alternative if my current brakes aren't up to the job. Worst case, I'll eBay them.

Have all your parts arrived?

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by RunForTheHills » Jun 16 2019 5:16pm

bengee wrote:
Jun 16 2019 7:19am
Yeh they weren't too expensive and thought would feel safer as an alternative if my current brakes aren't up to the job. Worst case, I'll eBay them.

Have all your parts arrived?
Yes, I have all the parts and have started the build. I wasn't able to work on it this weekend as I had to travel home. I am documenting the build here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=98802

I am traveling this weekend, but I will continue working on it this week. I did make a little more progress last weekend. I am still putting the bike together and I haven't started on the electronics yet. I will have to update the thread this week.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by bengee » Jun 18 2019 9:18pm

It's tough to find the time.

It's 3am here and I've just noticed the hub cable is damaged :cry:

The box was damaged in transit. It arrived partly open. And now I notice this...

I've emailed em3ev the photos and hope they have a quick, simple, inexpensive solution.

I can't afford to wait two weeks for a new hub to be sent from China.


IMG_1930.jpg
IMG_1929.jpg
IMG_1928.jpg

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by bengee » Jun 18 2019 10:04pm

On closer inspection - a yellow internal cable has been severed.

What are my options?

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by Chalo » Jun 18 2019 10:17pm

If it were my hub, I'd pull off the side cover and run new wires. I'd use Teflon jacketed phase wires, and reuse the Hall wires if possible. In any case, the plugs would need to be replaced, which more than likely means the plugs on the controller side also would also need to be replaced with matching components.

That's how I would handle it, because I am already set up and accustomed to terminating motor cables with Anderson and JST connectors. If I weren't, I'm not sure I would go that way.

Through-the-axle wiring is one of the hokiest bullshit features of Chinese hub motors. It's really dumb.
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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by E-HP » Jun 18 2019 10:23pm

bengee wrote:
Jun 18 2019 10:04pm
On closer inspection - a yellow internal cable has been severed.

What are my options?
On the bike side, if you can't wait, either you or a local shop would need to open the case and pull the cable in then re-solder everything, which would leave you with a shorter cable; optionally run new cable.

So on the transaction side, you could propose that he compensate you by giving you the cost of shipping both ways, which I assume is what he'd be paying anyway if you sent it back; and then take that money and have it repaired locally. Google seems to find a few e-bike repair shops.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by RunForTheHills » Jun 18 2019 10:28pm

I would wait the two weeks to get a good motor from EM3EV. If you go the repair route, make sure it doesn't void your warranty.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by amberwolf » Jun 18 2019 11:12pm

Opening it up and pulling it inside is the easiest option. You usually lose about 6-8" of cable length, but it's easy enough for someone experienced to do, and still possble for a beginner--I did it myself on a 9C type that came with damaged axle wires just like that.

If you need extra cable with all the wires for hall, phase, and temperature sensor/etc., with something like 12g phase, http://ebikes.ca carries it.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by bengee » Jun 19 2019 8:58am

I'm not sure what to do. I've not heard back from em3ev.

I went to a e-bike shop and a garage specialising in electric cars. Neither could help me.

Rather annoying.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by bengee » Jun 20 2019 11:45pm

em3ev are sending me a replacement motor today.

Hopefully it arrives before Wednesday, when I was planning on going on a trip away.

Let's see! In the mean time I'm working on the peripherals.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by RunForTheHills » Jun 21 2019 10:45am

bengee wrote:
Jun 20 2019 11:45pm
em3ev are sending me a replacement motor today.

Hopefully it arrives before Wednesday, when I was planning on going on a trip away.

Let's see! In the mean time I'm working on the peripherals.
That seems like a good result.

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by bengee » Jun 25 2019 5:44am

Replacement motor arrived yesterday. They're also kindly sending me a longer cable so I can mount the battery on the front of my bike eventually.

Going to put it all together today and hopefully give her a test ride tomorrow!

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Re: DIY Build - Touring eBike - Journal - Beginner

Post by Olds C0ol » Jul 02 2019 5:49pm

Bengee: Sounds like touring is your main concern. Using one bike for all things is possible. Serious Planing is what it takes. For ten years I've been runing 2stroke motors on all my bikes. 4stroke has its advantages, I prefer 2stroke. Legally at your local area 4stroke may be necessary.
The upshot of an Hybrid is " Range, in the 200/300 mile posibility", without refueling. I live in Alaska, there are no short trips, and what you need , is built into What you Carry!!! I'am curently adding a 350w front direct drive hub mptor with regen charging capbility, with a smaller than average battery, and a 15/20 mile range, which over the 200 mile distance I cover, with the gas motor, can recharge several times over.
As for a front suspension, go online for a " triple tree bicycle front forks", theyre ready made for your purpose, at a reasonable price.
Also get setup for a trailer. It will make changing a rear tire far easier. I would think putting the batteries in a touring configuration, over the front wheel, will balance out better. Although, for basic riding I would get a back wheel battery/combo rack.
Disc brakes front & back Definatly!!!
Riding speed in this form W/trailer on highway gets me 15/18mph. Up or down hill. Rolling 10 hours aday ( Hey, its Lite up here 20 hours aday all sumer), I cover alot of ground. Also having a motor I can easily take the side road, less traveled. The opertunites are worth it. Oh yeah, I'am 70 this Sept.
Another piece I use is a dual brake/throtle/kill switch on the right hand grip. My clutch lever & thumb throtle for the front hub is on the left, works great. Anyway good luck. Got a ? Let m know.
Olds C0ol

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