Cyclone 20kW hub motor specs

I'm planning on using the 20kW Cyclone hub motor (http://www.cyclone-tw.com/motor.html) on a dirt bike build I'm working on, but are there actually any specs someone can provide me with? I haven't really been able to figure out much info on it. All I know is that they offer it with a 120V controller, meaning it should be able to be juiced up with 120V, right?

I was thinking about getting the Kelly KHB controller, but haven't figured out whether or not I should get the 150A or 200A peak option, since the continuous current drawn is far less, and shouldn't be a problem for the motor either way. With the 150A peak, it's only 18kW, but with the 200A peak, it's 24kW. :?

I think they've probably accidentally added a zero to the motor spec.

I doubt it coudl handle that kind of power more than a few seconds at a time, and not very often, having to cool down between such peaks.

Most likely it's continuous power is a couple of kW at most; less if you have to peak it a lot.

You'd have to talk directly to Cyclone to get any actual specifications, but unless they can give you a dyno plot, I wouldn't accept numbers they tell you. (too many companies severely overrate their stuff just for the marketing hype).

For example, their regular chain drive system has to have a thermal cutoff / rollback just so it doesn't melt down, because it can't actually do the power levels they advertise it for very long. Discussion about that in various cyclone threads.

What are the capabilities of the controller they provide with it? Complete specs on that?

That should give you some idea of what they "expect" you to use it at...but I'll bet it also has a thermal cutoff built into the motor and the controller, to shut it down if you keep using it at the advertised levels.

amberwolf said:

I think they've probably accidentally added a zero to the motor spec.

I doubt it coudl handle that kind of power more than a few seconds at a time, and not very often, having to cool down between such peaks.

Most likely it's continuous power is a couple of kW at most; less if you have to peak it a lot.

You'd have to talk directly to Cyclone to get any actual specifications, but unless they can give you a dyno plot, I wouldn't accept numbers they tell you. (too many companies severely overrate their stuff just for the marketing hype).

For example, their regular chain drive system has to have a thermal cutoff / rollback just so it doesn't melt down, because it can't actually do the power levels they advertise it for very long. Discussion about that in various cyclone threads.

What are the capabilities of the controller they provide with it? Complete specs on that?

That should give you some idea of what they "expect" you to use it at...but I'll bet it also has a thermal cutoff built into the motor and the controller, to shut it down if you keep using it at the advertised levels.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the answer, I just emailed them and asked about it. I did manage to find this on the website:

It claims the "6k hub" is capable of 20kW peak power, and mentions the "nominal capacity" of the battery is 6kW. I'm sure they probably meant 6kWh, considering they list 120V & 50Ah battery specifications, but what is the continuous power of the motor then??? Not really sure, but if you take a look at the speeds they listed, it claims a 150km/h top speed and a 140km/h sustained top speed. If this relates to the motor power, then the peak 20kw shouldn't be too much higher than whatever the continuous power is, correct?

The "final drive" section may or may not hold the answer; it states "20kW/14kW 17inch Hub Motor F/R". Now, this could mean it's a 14kW motor with a 20kW peak, but what does the F/R stand for? In the photos of the bike, there doesn't appear to be a front motor, so it's pretty confusing. The mid drive version also carries the "F/R" at the end of it's "Final Drive" section.

The 14kW/20kW(peak) idea sounds plausible, albeit the fact that I've never heard of a hub motor this powerful. The only thing that seems to come close is the motor on the NOVUS electric motorcycle concept, which claims 14kW peak. However, I don't think this thing has even been built yet, so it could just be wishful thinking/marketing BS (2020 Tesla Roadster's 10,000Nm of torque). Just one thing seems to be clear: the fact that the motor is designed for 120VDC, which is pretty high in comparison to other hub motors with "a couple of kW at most". Hopefully the Cyclone guys can reply to my query about the specs, so that the mystery of this rare and undocumented motor can be solved.

Fortunately they have a 7 day return/exchange policy that's hopefully trustworthy enough to allow me to buy the motor to debunk if possible.

Well, it's common to be able to push a DD hub to very short peaks of power several times greater than they could possibly handle continously (without some form of active cooling). You can play with the http://ebikes.ca/simulator and various setups to force motors way past their "normal" usage / ratings, and see how quick they can overheat under those conditions.


FWIW, wattage ratings really don't mean much on their own--without a dyno plot that states it's specific test conditions as well, it's hard to say what any particular motor is capable of.

One reason the simulator at Grin Tech is so useful is that, at least for the motors tested and placed in the simulator, you can set it up "on your bike" to see how it will work "for real", and get a pretty good estimate of how it will perform.

I decided to keep it simple with my questioning, since there is likely a language barrier for the Cyclone company to overcome. It seems they decided to keep it quite simple with their answer as well. As you can see, they claim a 21.6kW continuous output, which I'm not sure if I believe. However, I'm not sure if I necessarily expected them to tell me anything different.

I'm with AW, accidental addition of a zero!
Hard to see in the pics and I couldn't find any further info but... given the size of it related to the rotor, and that the phase wires look std at about 10g there NO way, this would do 20kw cont. If it's really well made then I'd say 3 but otherwise maybe 2 (probly a generic motor passed off as their own).
My generic Chinese hubby is bigger than that, rated at 3kw cont and will do 1500w cont reliably.
Buy one and light her up at 20kw it'll last about 30secs? Maybe 1min?
Expensive though, I've seen/repaired some of the cyclone stuff... Trash most of it.

Hello new person. Please substitute my judgement for your own.

Cyclone lies about power handling so you can easily cut that figure in half. Hub motors have a lot of mass so peak power can be high--you might be able to stuff in 20kw for a few seconds but in practice that motor can maybe handle more like 3kw continuous for an hour in warm weather.

They also will supply a garbage controller, so don't bother. ASI is an example of a company that makes good controllers.

Finally, that hub motor is too small for a dirt bike, will have terrible handling like all hub motors, and will probably break pretty fast if y you ride hard cuz the windings will bang around and short to the stator.

flat tire said:

Hello new person. Please substitute my judgement for your own.

Cyclone lies about power handling so you can easily cut that figure in half. Hub motors have a lot of mass so peak power can be high--you might be able to stuff in 20kw for a few seconds but in practice that motor can maybe handle more like 3kw continuous for an hour in warm weather.

They also will supply a garbage controller, so don't bother. ASI is an example of a company that makes good controllers.

Finally, that hub motor is too small for a dirt bike, will have terrible handling like all hub motors, and will probably break pretty fast if y you ride hard cuz the windings will bang around and short to the stator.

Click to expand...

Alright, I'll have to find a better option then. I'd like to stick with a hub motor setup because my frame doesn't easily support a mid-drive motor, especially without a welder. Do you have any suggestions for powerful (at least 6kW continuous) hub motors that can run pretty fast (over 900 RPM)? Thinking about the QS273 50H V3 8000W motor, at 120V or 144V. The goal is at least 120km/h with a 19x3.00 tire, but it's not really a deciding factor of what motor I should get.

A welder is a minor expense in this hobby, and lots of people with 2 digit IQs have taught themselves to weld competently. I recommend one, and also highly recommend a mid drive for a dirt bike. The rougher the terrain or harder you ride the better a mid drive will be.

QS273 is a fun motor for a bicycle that only sees smooth roads. You can power wheelie up to at least 40 mph easily.

flat tire said:

A welder is a minor expense in this hobby, and lots of people with 2 digit IQs have taught themselves to weld competently. I recommend one, and also highly recommend a mid drive for a dirt bike. The rougher the terrain or harder you ride the better a mid drive will be.

QS273 is a fun motor for a bicycle that only sees smooth roads. You can power wheelie up to at least 40 mph easily.

Click to expand...

If I was to go with a mid-drive, I'd probably spend the big bucks and pick a liquid-cooled Motenergy motor, the ME1616 looks pretty appealing. It's pretty big and heavy for my frame, but honestly go big or go home. If I'm going through the trouble of creating a mount for a mid-drive, I may as well do the small amount of extra work to fit a large one. The ME1304 is my alternative choice.