Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

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RoyFirewall   1 mW

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Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by RoyFirewall » May 07 2020 7:09am

I've got two Sabvoton controllers on order (One is an MQCON and the other RisunMotor). It took me a while of researching before purchasing. One of the things I noticed is that the functionality (and the wiring loom) seems to vary among models depending on who's selling it.

Once they arrive I want to document differences between the different models and clones. Some have display, some don't. Some have speed limit, some don't. All of them support USB and Bluetooth, albeit with some revisions. Some came with CA plug.

I want to map where these connections connect to the boards and determine how much (if any) are differences in firmware.

I know these controllers are widely in use. They have just as many people singing their praises as complaining about them. They are one of the viable advanced FOC controllers in the mid to high power range.

The more samples we can survey, the more we can learn and possibly discern the good versions from the bad, and sources. It would be helpful to determine and break down the models by feature, which display (if any) they support, what FETs, Capacitors, MCU, board revisions, software revision, whether it's locked/unlocked, supports CA, etc.

It's fairly obvious that somebody, possibly multiple companies are still developing these, and that possibly means updating the firmware.
Last edited by RoyFirewall on May 09 2020 3:08pm, edited 1 time in total.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Help with Sabvoton slide regen? 20$ for fix

Post by john61ct » May 07 2020 1:30pm

So are you guys saying "Sabvoton" is not the brand name of a particular manufacturer, but just a "style" of controller, and the relationship between the actual manufacturers and selling vendors also not clear cut?

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Help with Sabvoton slide regen? 20$ for fix

Post by amberwolf » May 07 2020 2:13pm

RoyFirewall wrote:
May 07 2020 7:09am
. One of the things I noticed is that the functionality (and the wiring loom) seems to vary among models depending on who's selling it.
That usually means they are not the same actual controller, and like most of the other generics (large or small) are just a "style" of controller. They may or may not even use the same internals, or the same software running inside them.

Sabvoton itself doesn't exist anymore (hasn't in years), and the MQCON/etc controllers labelled that are completely different inside from the actual Sabvotons, and from the failures people have reported with them, they use inferior parts and designs.

Whatever happened to the original Sabvoton company/design, the new stuff is just raking in cash on the name.


Please post lots of pics of the insides when you start your investigation; it'll be interesting to see the differences.

Since this discussion isn't part of this topic, do you mind if i separate it out to a new thread that you can put your investigation into as well?
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RoyFirewall   1 mW

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Re: Help with Sabvoton slide regen? 20$ for fix

Post by RoyFirewall » May 08 2020 11:50am

Thread reserved to organize relevant ES links pertaining to Sabvoton controller info.
Last edited by RoyFirewall on May 09 2020 3:09pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by amberwolf » May 09 2020 12:05am

Ok, done. Thread title is just convenience, change it anyway you like by editing the first post's Subject: line.
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RoyFirewall   1 mW

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by RoyFirewall » May 09 2020 3:10pm

Thanks, I've rewritten the intro.

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

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Re: Help with Sabvoton slide regen? 20$ for fix

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » May 15 2020 3:03am

john61ct wrote:
May 07 2020 1:30pm
So are you guys saying "Sabvoton" is not the brand name of a particular manufacturer, but just a "style" of controller, and the relationship between the actual manufacturers and selling vendors also not clear cut?
Well I don't know if it still exists now, but it used to be a brand.
I've got two of those, about 5 years old and both are branded Sabvoton. They still work very well.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
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john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by john61ct » May 15 2020 6:18am

Do the ones sold by QS come from MQCON?

Are they all compatible with the same configuration software?

Did the contents of this "unofficial guide" just disappear?
viewtopic.php?t=92043#p1372026

RoyFirewall   1 mW

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by RoyFirewall » May 15 2020 2:15pm

That's a good question about the version that QSMotor sells. I believe they are MCQCON looking at the cost of the version with the display. They show the display labeled H6 and the boxes appear to be labeled MQCON.

I read that the site that the unofficial guide was stored on went down. I think it can be found on way back machine albeit without graphics.

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by Yermommy » May 15 2020 2:34pm

I bought my 72150 from LAebike back in April of 2018 and had numerous problems with it from the start. It struggled to find a matching hall angle for a mxus 3k turbo I was using and constantly blew the hall sensors. I upgrade to a qs205 about a year later and it also blew through 2 sets of hall sensors on it. I probably won't be going with Sabvoton ever again.

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by RoyFirewall » May 15 2020 3:22pm

I received the first of two controllers I'm ordering. This one I wanted the 45A with the display that MQCON advertises.

I'll be buying a second that will be higher amp and from a different vendor to get the UKC-1 or 750c display that I'm pretty sure is the Risun motor version.

Below is the MQCON SVMC7245 With the vertical H6 display. I bought this on AliExpress from Dun Electric and received the USB programming cable and Bluetooth adapter.
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RoyFirewall   1 mW

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by RoyFirewall » May 15 2020 3:26pm

Yermommy wrote:
May 15 2020 2:34pm
I bought my 72150 from LAebike back in April of 2018 and had numerous problems with it from the start. It struggled to find a matching hall angle for a mxus 3k turbo I was using and constantly blew the hall sensors. I upgrade to a qs205 about a year later and it also blew through 2 sets of hall sensors on it. I probably won't be going with Sabvoton ever again.
Yikes!! That's exactly why I want to help document these controllers. Maybe we can differentiate the good ones from the questionable ones.

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by john61ct » May 15 2020 3:44pm


Yermommy wrote:I probably won't be going with Sabvoton ever again.
Well the big takeaway for me, is that "Sabvoton" is not a company, and over the years the name has been used by multiple makers.

Who actual manufactured your terrible example?

Maybe others are higher quality. . .


john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by john61ct » May 15 2020 3:45pm


RoyFirewall wrote:Maybe we can differentiate the good ones from the questionable ones.
Exactamundo!

And kudos to you for raising the issue. . .


RoyFirewall   1 mW

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by RoyFirewall » May 16 2020 9:25am

john61ct wrote:
May 15 2020 3:44pm
Yermommy wrote:I probably won't be going with Sabvoton ever again.
Well the big takeaway for me, is that "Sabvoton" is not a company, and over the years the name has been used by multiple makers.

Who actual manufactured your terrible example?

Maybe others are higher quality. . .
Another thing it highlights is the culture of cloning prevalent everywhere. In every industry there are very talented engineers coming up with novel solutions. More often than not you'll have a single trendsetting company that did all the heavy lifting to bring a product to market, followed by a bunch of cut-throat companies creating clones.

Using the Sabvoton as an example, likely all the clones are based upon the same board from 6 to 7 years ago. They probably duplicated the board and ripped the firmware or obtained a copy of the source, while substituting cheaper components and hacking workarounds into the circuitry. Several comments have been made that the documentation and programming interfaces are still the versions from 2014.

The alternate displays being used in the clones are all from other devices, 750c is a copy of the Bafang display. The displays all have their own microcontroller with the graphic primitives and sprites and menu pre-loaded and simply read variables and menu entries via the display serial interface. Once they map the functions, any display will work.

One of the things I want to figure out is if the display firmware exists on the non-display models. Because they are significantly cheaper.

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by Yermommy » May 16 2020 1:14pm

john61ct wrote:
May 15 2020 3:44pm
Yermommy wrote:I probably won't be going with Sabvoton ever again.
Well the big takeaway for me, is that "Sabvoton" is not a company, and over the years the name has been used by multiple makers.

Who actual manufactured your terrible example?

Maybe others are higher quality. . .
I have no idea where it came from, I bought it from LAebike in April of 2018. He didn't list his source.

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by john61ct » May 17 2020 1:29pm

And that is the fundamental challenge here

to give members guidance to help ensure finding the versions that do work well

and trusted sources are a key to that.

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Re: Sabvoton designs, features, comparisons, etc

Post by Audisport09 » May 23 2020 8:46am

Hmmm interesting, could it not be just one company making varies versions for different suppliers. Who was your supplier for the controllers? Right I believe SIAECOSYS are the best and cheapest supplier. They sale the most up to date version of the sabvoton. They even provide link to the updated software for easy of programming of variable regen and temperature.
I have two of the Sabvonton SVMC72150. One is lighter in colour and has a Juliet connecter for easy connection. But I had a hard time figuring out how to program it. Ended up blowing it, probably more my fault though. The darker one was quick and simple to program and unlocked. Early doors yet, but it's been running great.


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