Kelly KBS-E controller Variable Brake Regen setup issues

Hi folks,

Got a KBS72181AE and wired both throttle and brake with 0-5v (without switches) and can't seem to get the Variable Regen braking to work.

I have tested the brake lever with the throttle wiring and i know the brake lever works.

I tried with the "Releasing Throttle Starts Regen" mode and i can see regen working.

I even swapped the no.2 wire (Brake AN) to the no.13 wire (Brake Switch) just to see whether there is manufacturing defect but still not working.

On the config program, I have both 'Brake Switch' and 'Release throttle starts regen' turned off and have tried practically all the start and stop sliders in different locations, but still no luck.

I have tried every single possible setting as well trying out all the different sensor types.

On an older post some has said the brake switch needs to be installed but not the newer ones (bought mine 5 months ago). There is no mention that installing a switch is a must in the manuals and FAQs of the website, so Im guessing this is not required.

Am I missing something here?

Thanks for reading

Perhaps this set-up thread on the Kelly KBSxx controller will help...
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92899

GumbaLL said:

I even swapped the no.2 wire (Brake AN) to the no.13 wire (Brake Switch) just to see whether there is manufacturing defect but still not working.

Click to expand...

The no. 2 pin would need to see a voltage of 0 to 5vdc, minimum to maximum regen. (pot throttle)
The no. 13 pin gets shorted to ground to enable regen. (EDITED for accuracy)

Check for correct voltage at No2 when properly wired.

Is your "Brake sensor type" configured correctly to match your type of regen throttle? (hall verses pot)Page 19.
https://kellycontroller.com/wp-content/uploads/kbs/KellyKBS-XUserManual.pdf



Regards,
T.C.

Like TommyCat says you need a switch that activates the brake. But not pin 3
The no. 13 pin has to get shorted to ground (pin 20) to enable regenerative braking with this switch.

And you are right on newer versions it is not need, but KBS ones are old models.

_GonZo_ said:

But not pin 3

Click to expand...

Sorry... mis-typed and left off the 1. EDITED post.

But to clarify, my point was to just point out that switching the two wires would not be a way of verifying correct regen operation as they use different inputs for operation.

I don't know if one is dependent on the other.

Thanks for the comments TommyCat and hi again Gonzales,

I tried connecting pin 13 to 20 via a connecting wire from the throttle -(black wire) to a pin that connects to pin 13 ,thereby closing the loop as if brake switch is turned on, and now throttle doesnt work either.

I've tried to disable and enabled the brake switch on the software and that didnt work either. I also cycle through all the 'Brake Sensor type' as a test and the sensor type for the brake lever worked as a 0-5v when wired as the throttle.

Just want to re-iterate that regen does work for me without connecting pin 13 to ground but only with 'Releasing Throttle Starts Regen' mode, which is strange..

BTW I don't have a throttle switch so pin 15 is left open and throttle switch is disabled on the config software.

GumbaLL said:

I tried connecting pin 13 to 20 via a connecting wire from the throttle -(black wire) to a pin that connects to pin 13 ,thereby closing the loop as if brake switch is turned on, and now throttle doesnt work either.

Click to expand...

That is correct and what a switch brake should do, when you brake (activate the switch) the current to the motor is stoped.
In order to get regeneration from the motor the switch has to be activated (pin13 to ground) and the brake throttle/pedal has to be activated as well (not 0V). This last as well may depends on the settings, but bear in mind that you need both activated to get progressive brake generation, that is what I think you want.

I've tried to disable and enabled the brake switch on the software and that didnt work either.

Click to expand...

I don't know exactly what you mean with this but there is no way to disable brake switch.
"Foot Switch" is not break switch
"Brake Switch Regen Mode" is in order to turn on/off brake regeneration just only with the switch when not using a brake throttle/pedal.

I also cycle through all the 'Brake Sensor type' as a test and the sensor type for the brake lever worked as a 0-5v when wired as the throttle.

Click to expand...

Perfect :thumb:

Just want to re-iterate that regen does work for me without connecting pin 13 to ground but only with 'Releasing Throttle Starts Regen' mode, which is strange..

Click to expand...

Yes because you provably have activated the "Releasing Throttle Regen Mode and Max Allowed Regen Current" function, so when you release throttle regeneration occurs.

It is long time I do not program a KBS unit but if I don't remember badly this is how I use to program them on the braking area:

• ABS, Value: Enable
  Regeneration, Value: Enable
  Brake Switch Regen Mode, Value: Disable
  Releasing Throttle Regen Mode and Max Allowed Regen Current, Value: 0%
  Max Allowed Regen Current In Brake Switch Regen Mode, Value: 5%~50% (does not matter as it is disabled)

Hope it helps.

_GonZo_ said:

That is correct and what a switch brake should do, when you brake (activate the switch) the current to the motor is stoped.
In order to get regeneration from the motor the switch has to be activated (pin13 to ground) and the brake throttle/pedal has to be activated as well (not 0V). This last as well may depends on the settings, but bear in mind that you need both activated to get progressive brake generation, that is what I think you want.

Click to expand...

but my throttle stops working after i connect pin 13 to ground ..
Does this mean I have to connect the throttle switch (pin 15) to ground (pin 20) too? (thereby turning on the throttle switch)

GumbaLL said:

but my throttle stops working after i connect pin 13 to ground ..

Click to expand...

Obviously when you brake the motor should stop working

Does this mean I have to connect the throttle switch (pin 15) to ground (pin 20) too? (thereby turning on the throttle switch)

Click to expand...

That is the "dead man" switch that you can enable or not.

_GonZo_ said:

Obviously when you brake the motor should stop working

Click to expand...

please pardon my confusion. so this means the motor will turn off with brake switch on (as pin13 to 20 is connected), even with Brake Switch disabled in the config software? and i need to a physical switch to get the motor working and need to flip between throttle/regen each time?

Ultimately, my goal is that i can let go throttle and the bike would roll without regen, or with as little regen as possible, and then pull the brake lever to get variable regen effect like a brake, without the need to use of any physical switches. would this be possible with this controller?

[/quote]
Ultimately, my goal is that i can let go throttle and the bike would roll without regen, or with as little regen as possible, and then pull the brake lever to get variable regen effect like a brake, without the need to use of any physical switches. would this be possible with this controller?
[/quote]
OK, we should start with this, before going any further.
- With this controller or any other controller you need at least a brake switch to let the controller know that you are braking.
- With this controller in order to have progressive regenerative braking (controllable like a throttle) you need a switch and a pot (0-5V)

So this is the question before going any further:
Do you want progressive regenerative braking or just regenerative braking? (The hardware and the software parameters are different in each case)

_GonZo_ said:

Do you want progressive regenerative braking or just regenerative braking?

Click to expand...

Progressive regenerative braking. I would like to vary the levels with the brake lever

[/quote]
Progressive regenerative braking. I would like to vary the levels with the brake lever
[/quote]

Then the first thing you need is a brake lever with a pot or a hall sensor in order to get 0V to 5V signal for the controller. This lever needs to have a switch as well, because this controller needs it. They usually have this switch, because it is used to light up the brake rear lights.

The parameters settings in order to get what you want will be: (and note about what that programming is doing that way)
- ABS, Value: Enable (Prevents from wheel blocking and hard braking start)
- Regeneration, Value: Enable (To activate regeneration in the controller)
- Brake Switch Regen Mode, Value: Disable (To activate progressive regeneration braking)
- Releasing Throttle Regen Mode and Max Allowed Regen Current, Value: 0% (to deactivate release throttle regen)
- Max Allowed Regen Current In Brake Switch Regen Mode, Value: 5%~50% (does not matter as it is disabled)

GumbaLL said:

Then the first thing you need is a brake lever with a pot or a hall sensor in order to get 0V to 5V signal for the controller. This lever needs to have a switch as well, because this controller needs it. They usually have this switch, because it is used to light up the brake rear lights.

Click to expand...

oic... i never knew they had switches (the one im using now doesnt). will order one asap. gosh thanks again

Hi Gonzales,

fyi am stoked, got the regen braking working. how you referenced the brake light switch got to me but i had to integrate 'normally closed' switch to a throttle of a xiao-mi scooter. cant seem to find an electronic brake lever with switch. Braking power is not strong enough as a rear brake of course, but having fun here.



If anyone knows where to source an electronic brake lever with an integrated switch, pls do let me know. spent some time on Aliexpress with no success.

thanks,

GumbaLL said:

If anyone knows where to source an electronic brake lever with an integrated switch, pls do let me know. spent some time on Aliexpress with no success.

Click to expand...

If you mean a standard "ebrake lever" there are dozens of versions (probably thousands), of two basic kinds.

The first kind uses a regular switch, with a button pushed by the lever. THese are also used for brake light levers on scooters, motorcycles, mopeds, etc. (and those will generally be more durable than the ebrake levers, with water-resistant switches, which the ebrake levers generally don't have)

The second kind uses a magnetic switch, with a magnet in the lever.


The first kind comes in two flavors, normally closed NC and normally open NO. "normal" being the state the switch contacts are in when the switch is not pushed by the lever. Most systems use the NC kind, just like brake lights, which turns the switch on when the lever is pulled. The NO kind turns the switch off when the lever is pulled.


The second kind comes in at least two flavors. Most of these use a hall sensor, which requires power to operate (usually 5v), and the output "floats" off when the lever is not pulled, and shorts to ground when it is pulled. Some use a reed switch, which then can be NO or NC, and operates just like the switch type of the first kind.


Most of all of these ebrake levers either pull a cable for a mechanical brake, or change pressure in a master cylinder for hydraulic brakes, but you don't usually have to use that part of the lever (some dont' have a return spring so won't return after pulling without that).


If you mean an ebrake lever that also sends a variable voltage output like a throttle...I have heard of some, but not run across them. So I "made" one, here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105460
and others also posted their versions there too.